Kyousuke.: [...]
Then again in the past games used to release very slowly, and lack of properly updates post launch meant some solids QA tests, which today are non-existent.
[...]
amok: hehe, had to say something here. You do know that QA is a more recent term and process? "back in the old days" QA was non-existent. Most games was made by single coders, small groups of coders who made a game by themsleves.
Have you EVER written any software?
You ALWAYS test it, ESPEICALLY if we're talking pure manual coding.
Do you really somehow came to conclusion that there was no quality control in games "back in the day"?
QA == quality assurance / quality control.
It was always a thing.
amok: when he made his first game (off course alone) did not have enough memory left for an end sequqnce, so he made the final boss unbeatable and as a result he did not have make any end sequnce. There's QA for you.
No, that's shitty coding and not controlling your project's complexity in relation to your capabilities.
amok: edit - and just to make another point. It was easier "back then" as the platforms where uniform (i.e. C64, Spectrum, Amiga 600 etc), so it was much easier to make games that worked. You made a game for a c64, it worled on a c64. Now, especially PC (but also making games cross-platform) there are no longer uniform platforms. You need to make the game runnable on W7,W8,W10, you need to make it work on different hardware (AMD, Intel, ARM etc) different GPU's, differnt RAM setups and many more factors.
No offense but you clearly have no clue how gamedev works.
For the sake of simplicity let's separate QA into 2 cathegories:
1.Testing product performance on target hardware
2.Testing actual quality of the product
"Nowadays" systems (let's for the sake of simplicity talk about Windows only for now) are rather unified. There are dependencies easily available (for example VC redistributables), large chunk of population has similar setups, GPU drivers get game-specific fixes, etc.
It's not exacly "hard" to make game cross-system-compatible when you are working on same base packages across them.
Testing performance of the product on end-user hardware isn't something that can be done 100% since there can be rather high permutations.
But usual, popular configurations are usually well tested. And those are that have "support" - it doesn't mean the game will not work on others - it just means other won't get official support (if something breaks you are on your own).
That's normal.
Now, if we are talking acutal QA of actual product...
Bugs like some textures not rendering properly (for example invisible water) can be attributed to problems with hardware configurations along with software stack.
Meanwhile bugs like car sinking through a world map have nothing to do with hardware whatsoever.
Same for shitty AI shooting you through the walls - it's not shitty because your CPU is weak, it didn't get "dumber", it's not a code that has intelligence and capabilities dependant on hardware it runs on - the AI won't get "dumber" because your CPU is worse than average - it's bad because it was coded bad - and the code was not properly TESTED.
If your character makes a stunt Crank homage in the middle of motorcycling it has nothing to do with your GPU for example, it's just that the game was not properly tested and shit like that either slipped through QA or someone at HQ ignored QA and let this through.
amok: Any developer, big or small, can not do QA on all existing variations of hardware-software setups that people are using today.
Hold up, if by any chance you are putting "CP2077 shit last gen console release" under this cathegory then you clearly get it wrong.
PS4 / XONE have known components, platform is fairly static (minus aftermarket changes, tho no developer alligns to that, except for maybe CDPR expecting for every customer to have devkit parts in their consoles).
Optimising for it is literally easier than for majestic glorious indefinite amount of random configurations.
It's not like CDPR was not aware of the specs they have in hand. THEY KNEW.
One of 2 things happened:
1.Someone out there at HQ upon being presented with the port running on DEVKIT (mind you, devkits are beefed up versions of consoles since you cannot debug absolutely EVERYTHING on computers in terms of console port coding workflow and thus part of debugging is done on devkits thus they are more powerful for that reason), game running "acceptably", that someone completely ingored (or was utter ignorant not knowing any better) and made mental connection "game runs ok enough on devkit" == "game will run fine on consumer hardware".
2.Or that somebody was presented with port running on actual off the shelf consoles, it was running terribly, and that someone said "f it, we will just release it like that to not make last gen people wait longer than current gen and we will patch it later, people are hyped and they will love the game so they will surely forgive us".
amok: But also, the games themselves where much simpler as well. It is an ocean of difference bughunting 64k of code compared with 10GB of code. Compare the mechanics in for example Pacman with Skyrim, and if you do not see the difference in complexity ....
Yes, it is a difference between manually painstakingly and painfully quality testing 64 k on slow hardware while pushing it to limits compared to heavily relying on automated debugging tool helpers on powerful hardware which should it happen to be insufficient you can just throw money at a problem and buy better or rent computing cluster for needed time to just test 10 GiB.
amok: Compare the mechanics in for example Pacman with Skyrim, and if you do not see the difference in complexity ....
Gee, I wonder how pretentious do you have to be to not realize how hypocritical are your comparisons.
Skyrim had uncomparably higher amount of staff involved in development process.
If your game is more complex then you just throw more people at it. It's a rule of the industry.
amok: edit 2 - speaking of Pacman, the original game also had a bug. If you manage to get to level 256, half of the screen becomes garbage, since a byte can not hold more than 255 numbers. Could have been fixed, never was.
It's funny how you just blatantly assume it was a bug and not for example code and architecture limitation (that would not be possible to overcome until newer hardware and software) without knowing actual code.
amok: bug / something not working correctly in games are not evidence
Are you for real?
When someone in gamedev enriches complexity of their software it's only natural for them to invest more resources into testing it properly.
It's insane to expect same quality level on 2 fundamentally abyss-separated (in terms of compelxity) projects being tested by exact same amount of people with exact same skills.
You are just never going to have equal quality levels like this.
Bigger project means more needed QA.
If games are getting bigger and qulity is getting worse it's direct evidence some development studios simply don't care about investing enough resources into testing it appropriately and fundamentally.
It IS possible to make big complex games that are generally bug free.
It's only a matter of doing proper QA, which again, many developers these days seem to cannot be bothered with since they see most customers put up with whatever BS and keep repeating "oh it's complex, oh it's new, it's okay that it's broken on day one" - no - it's not okay, such things fall under QA and if games get released broken it means there wasn't sufficient amount of it.
This has LITERALLY
NOTHING to do with project size. It has everything to do with properly handling human resources and investing TIME into ensuring your product is of quality BEFORE releasing it and not making an "afterthought postrelease patch spree".
Kabuto: Those boycotting/complaining the loudest are ironically doing it on their forums therefore can't take them seriously.
Oh really? And just WHERE are we supposed to talk about it?
The platform in question allowed us to use it's forums, so why not use them?
What's the problem?
Should we "go outside" just to not use the very features that we are given?
WHY?
Hexchild: "Well, uh... they are all DRM games."
"Oh. It must be because people are pissed off about our lack of communication, our heavy pushing of Galaxy and our conduct during the recent Devotion debacle!"
That line of reasoning makes no sense, IMO.
Ah, yes, "let's mix up different problems and different outcomes and pretend 'it doesn't make sense'".
There is A LOT wrong with GOG recently, more so other time.
GOG is loosing customers not because of just one problem.
Devotion is pissing off some, EGS ordeal others, etc.
Groups are interconnecting and crossing, overall combined they create a punch hole in GOG's revenue. Whether it's noticable so far to GOG or not is not for me to decide. So far they are radio silent so I guess they are fine with it?
Or perhaps they are M type of people... /s
edit: fixed formatting