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Gersen: No it's not, as long at it is done in the constraints of the law it's neither unethical nor illegal. And it's CDPR that had it's devs crunch not Gog. If anything the "crunch" at Gog, if there was any, was probably from support trying to answer to all the refund requests...
Doing stuff within the law does not mean things done in such a way are always unethical.....for example, the CCP does many things within the confines and constraints of it's laws that many would likely find unethical.

Also: just because you don't find some things to be unethical doesn't mean that they aren't unethical to others.
Post edited January 17, 2021 by GamezRanker
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Elmofongo: I'm tired, I'm tired of all this shit when it comes gaming. I'm tired of the controversies, I'm tired of gamer outrage, I'm tired of the politics and ethics involved, I'm tired of seeing everything I cherished burned to ashes.
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GamezRanker: Some of it isn't just "outrage", but genuine criticism. Imo it's not fair to lump it all as some sort of (possibly baselss and unneeded) "outrage".
That's the one thing I will never get. People saying "I don't with you on this argument, so I'm going to discredit your opinion."
Why not saying " I don't agree with you, but I guess, that is a possible way of seeing things"?
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john_hatcher: That's the one thing I will never get. People saying "I don't with you on this argument, so I'm going to discredit your opinion."'
Such types likely grew used to using GOG, and as such some of them are likely more willing to go along with what a store they have grown dependent on(in this case GOG) does....while also seeing more criticism and complaints as "pesky outrage"(well unless it's a complaint they also share, that is).

(it is similar to people who develop care for their captors in some such situations, in a way)

Also in the case of some others: it possibly has to do with feeling morally superior to others(even if subconsciously).

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john_hatcher: Why not saying " I don't agree with you, but I guess, that is a possible way of seeing things"?
Well said, and I agree. If people dislike a topic they should either civilly express their disagreement or ignore the topic & agree to disagree.
Post edited January 17, 2021 by GamezRanker
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john_hatcher: That's the one thing I will never get. People saying "I don't with you on this argument, so I'm going to discredit your opinion."'
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GamezRanker: Such types likely grew used to using GOG, and as such some of them are likely more willing to go along with what a store they have grown dependent on(in this case GOG) does....while also seeing more criticism and complaints as "pesky outrage"(well unless it's a complaint they also share, that is).

(it is similar to people who develop care for their captors in some such situations, in a way)

Also in the case of some others: it possibly has to do with feeling morally superior to others(even if subconsciously).
Let's be honest. You will find this behaviour in all situations in life, not only online game stores, but to name a few cars, software (Microsoft, Apple, Linux,...) and political parties.
Some are more intelligent, some are less. That's life. ;-)
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Hexchild: Are you unaware that crunch often gets way out of hand because when it becomes more common, it also becomes the expected norm and part of the regular toolset rather than an occasional willing sacrifice? That any sign of crunch leading to actual health detriments is also a sign of poor management? That meeting deadlines more often than not ends up hurting the people doing the detail work rather than the people who set the final timeline and quality expectations? That if left unchecked, it tends to grow into an untenable situation with serious health consequences long before any laws are unambiguously broken?
Overtime are nothing new and something pretty common in a lot of industry and especially in software development, and by themselves they are not good or bad or unethical. And a lot of European countries there are some very strict laws to make sure that employees are correctly remunerated and limit the risk on their health.

What you describe is what happens when they are abused and take place over a long period of time, if your company asks its employees to work 100 hours per week for months without compensating it then it's "unethical" (and in several EU country illegal) but if a company asks its employees to work overtime for a limited time with well defined compensation then it is not. At least for now, there doesn't seem to be any proof that CDPR did the former.
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The only store not drm, every day with more users and you want to sink ...
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StrongSoldier: The only store not drm, every day with more users and you want to sink ...
I have said multiple times in this thread: the goal of the boycott is not to 'sink' GOG, but to pressure them into changing course and reversing the steady erosion of the DRM-free values they were founded on. Now, before it is too late.
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StrongSoldier: The only store not drm, every day with more users and you want to sink ...
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Time4Tea: I have said multiple times in this thread: the goal of the boycott is not to 'sink' GOG, but to pressure them into changing course and reversing the steady erosion of the DRM-free values they were founded on. Now, before it is too late.
I'm not going to deny that they've been disappointing me lately, but there's no alternative. I would never have imagined a non-drm store with so many users.

However, if they act badly, other alternatives to gog will surely appear.
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amok: Janaury and into February are historically very slow for new games. most publishers rushed to get the games ready for the Christmas rush, and there is then a bit of lag after where it is about taking stock where they are at and planing the new year. So not that odd at all.
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rjbuffchix: While that makes sense, what I consider "big releases" aren't just brand new games that just came out this instant...where are Skyrim, Resident Evil, more Silent Hill games, etc?
The day we see Resident Evil anything is the day I'll eat my underwear.
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thefallenalchemist: I would be wary of Zoom. I looked through it and I just see a lot of potential for disaster there. I don't think they're ready for the big time, but am fully aware of the situation. One thing that you just aren't considering (and has been true of everything I've observed so far) is that the more popular and mainstream something becomes, the more likely it is to jump the shark and fall prey to corporatism. I'm a proud capitalist, but even I can see when corporations become too big for their britches and fail. Perhaps this is going on with GOG.
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Time4Tea: It's not that I'm not considering it. I'm sure you are correct that the underlying cause of their recent unpopular decisions is that they have grown too big and are now part of a large public corporation, which values short-term profit above all else. However, I consider it irrelevant to my boycott. I strongly dislike many of GOG's recent decisions and I am not going to continue supporting their store unless they change course. The underlying reasons for those decisions are just not relevant to me. Why should I care?

I don't agree with those (not necessarily you) that imply we should give GOG a free pass because 'they are a big corporation now, and this is just how big corporations behave'. Imo, even large corporations should listen to and respect their customers and uphold certain core values they may have built their businesses on in the first place.

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thefallenalchemist: At the end of the day, GOG is going to have a tough decision to make. They will either have to sever their partnership with Epic and Tencent, or they will lose customers and support worldwide. Talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place.
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Time4Tea: Yes, they have a tough decision to make. That's life.

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Breja: It never even occured to me before that you can hold someone hostage with a colelction of DRM-free ofline installers. It's so absurd it just boggles the mind. And yet pointing that out only got me downvoted :D

It's actually even more absurd than just the offline installers part. I mean, what's to be afraid here? That the boycott will hurt GOG so badly they will shut down? Not that it seems like a realistic scenario in the first place, but if it gets anywhere near hurting their bottom line so badly they will react to it and change to bring back the boycotting customers. They would not continue on a suicidal course just to do... what exactly? Stand on the principle of abandoning their former principles?
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Time4Tea: Bingo! I find the suggestion that GOG would bend their knee immediately when their access to one country's market is threatened, but wouldn't comply with boycott demands if their entire business was at risk of going under to be rather ridiculous.

They have literally just shown us they will bend quickly, if their bottom line is put under enough pressure.
No, you misunderstand. They don't deserve a pass because they're a larger company. I never said that. And yes, I wasn't dreading the fact that they would have to make that decision. Ultimately, they will lose customers either way.
Post edited January 18, 2021 by thefallenalchemist
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thefallenalchemist: 90% of the posts are about refunds. China does not want Cyberpunk 2077.
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toxicTom: Um... you need to consider that you only see the posts of people complaining. The rest is busy playing the game.

Also we had tons of "refund me already" threads right here in General, but because there is so much more going on here, it's simply less visible.
I agree here, but it's not just only posts of people wanting refunds, it's mostly people wanting refunds. It's like if GOG said, "Everyone who wants free beer, make a post about how much you want free beer" and then we have all these posts for free beer. That's what China's forum looks like and the English forums as well. Everyone and their mother seems to want a refund for Cyberpunk.

I've played worse games, but it is a bit costly to begin with.
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StrongSoldier: I'm not going to deny that they've been disappointing me lately, but there's no alternative. I would never have imagined a non-drm store with so many users.

However, if they act badly, other alternatives to gog will surely appear.
There are a few...one being:

zoom-platform

Other sites also sell some drm free games as well.
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thefallenalchemist: No, you misunderstand. They don't deserve a pass because they're a larger company. I never said that. And yes, I wasn't dreading the fact that they would have to make that decision. Ultimately, they will lose customers either way.
To be fair, I had said in that comment that I wasn't aiming it you specifically. It was more of a follow-on to the previous point I made to you, since other people have tried to imply that GOG's actions should be excused because 'that's just what large companies do'.

Sorry for any confusion.

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StrongSoldier: I'm not going to deny that they've been disappointing me lately, but there's no alternative. I would never have imagined a non-drm store with so many users.

However, if they act badly, other alternatives to gog will surely appear.
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GamezRanker: There are a few...one being:

zoom-platform

Other sites also sell some drm free games as well.
+1. I strongly recommend StrongSoldier and others to take a look at Zoom Platform. They have quite a few good old games.
Post edited January 18, 2021 by Time4Tea
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Time4Tea: +1. I strongly recommend StrongSoldier and others to take a look at Zoom Platform. They have quite a few good old games.
Agreed

As for the "problems" with such sites that people bring up: it's a catch-22.....as more people would need to start using those sites for them to grow, but a decent number seemingly won't sign onto new sites either due to trust issues or worries that the sites won't grow and etc.
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GamezRanker: As for the "problems" with such sites that people bring up: it's a catch-22.....as more people would need to start using those sites for them to grow, but a decent number seemingly won't sign onto new sites either due to trust issues or worries that the sites won't grow and etc.
Yeah, absolutely. Their offline installers for the games they have seem to be every bit as good as GOG's. My hard drive doesn't care whether they come from GOG or Zoom Platform ...
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Time4Tea: Yeah, absolutely. Their offline installers for the games they have seem to be every bit as good as GOG's. My hard drive doesn't care whether they come from GOG or Zoom Platform ...
Now i'm beginning to wonder how many "I don't trust this gog thing" people there were back when they started.
(I assume there were some...of course as I didn't sign on until 2010 I wasn't here to see the initial reactions to the site/company, but I assume there were some saying the same things about gog that people are saying about zoom now)
Post edited January 18, 2021 by GamezRanker