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General discussionBoycotting DRM and Game Censorship on GOG, 2021-2022(5216 posts) (5216 posts) 
(5216 posts) 
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This is my favourite topic
Posted January 13, 2021
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wolfsite: But Steam is also bending the knee to China and is even creating a custom Steam app to conform to Chinese Censor laws.
Everyone do this. Sony, Nintendo, MS, etc.

At least steam does not remove games because "the gamers" say so.
Post edited January 13, 2021 by M3troid
Posted January 13, 2021
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if we are already boycotting lets add twitter to it :P
Posted January 13, 2021
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Time4Tea: If that's what you want to do, that's up to you. But i don't think it changes the point I was making - that you shouldn't be under any illusion that doing so is somehow helping the DRM-free movement. In fact, it's not even neutral. In buying from Steam, you are just further validating the developer's position that DRM is a-ok.
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Dogmaus: you might be surprised at how much is drm-free on Steam, it's just not mentioned. Last game I got there was a simple exe file I can move anywhere and launch at my will. I wonder if there's even more DRM-free games there, given how huge is that store compared to GOG. You might have to make your own installer but at least it doesn't take ages to download.
Some games will never make it to GOG, because curation. But are DRM free on Steam. So...
And in case people don't know it, you can buy, install and play DRM-free Steam games from their website without the Steam client.
Posted January 13, 2021
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Dogmaus: you might be surprised at how much is drm-free on Steam, it's just not mentioned. Last game I got there was a simple exe file I can move anywhere and launch at my will. I wonder if there's even more DRM-free games there, given how huge is that store compared to GOG. You might have to make your own installer but at least it doesn't take ages to download.
Some games will never make it to GOG, because curation. But are DRM free on Steam. So...
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mrkgnao: And in case people don't know it, you can buy, install and play DRM-free Steam games from their website without the Steam client.
hmm with api or how?
Posted January 13, 2021
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mrkgnao: And in case people don't know it, you can buy, install and play DRM-free Steam games from their website without the Steam client.
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Orkhepaj: hmm with api or how?
There's a tool called SteamCMD: https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/SteamCMD

Once you install the app, all you need to do to install a game is run one command:
steamcmd +login [username] +app_update [gameid] +quit
but you need to know the game's ID (found on the game's steam page URL).

That said, I wouldn't consider this tool a real replacement for a client. As far as I can see, the only thing it can do is install a game. It cannot, for example, list which games you own, or update all your games at once, like, say, gogrepo can. I guess it's better than having a client if you happen to want to play a steam game or two, but not if you have a sizeable library, unless you install (or write) some wrapper around it (of which, I understand, there are a few).
Post edited January 13, 2021 by mrkgnao
Posted January 13, 2021
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thefallenalchemist:
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Time4Tea: Thanks for posting and I respect your opinions; however, a few comments:

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thefallenalchemist: First off, there's no way in hell I'm abandoning GOG. As long as they adhere to DRM-Free policies.
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Time4Tea: Ok, but what do you mean by 'adhering to DRM-free policies'? There seems to be a clear pattern of erosion of GOG's '100% DRM-free' promise, with several games now on GOG that have already been mentioned including DRM. What line would they have to cross for you, that would constitute them not 'adhering to DRM-free policies'?

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/drm_on_gog_list_of_singleplayer_games_with_drm

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thefallenalchemist: Yeah, they push galaxy a lot. I don't care, because I do not use it nor the steam client. In fact, I just buy games from Steam, hop on my ship and get a version without DRM that way. So the developer gets their money and so does steam, but I don't have to download the damn client.
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Time4Tea: The problem I see with this is that yes, you might be getting a DRM-free game in the end by getting a cracked copy, but you are still rewarding the developer for making a DRMed game. From their point-of-view, your purchase is an endorsement that you are a-ok with them releasing with DRM. So, it doesn't do anything to support the DRM-free movement.

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thefallenalchemist: I get the Devotion situation, but it is a really shitty game. I watched the playthrough of it and I have so many bones to pick with all of these developers regarding "survival horror games."
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Time4Tea: I haven't played it either and you are entitled to your opinion. However, it seems to have good reviews. Besides, whether it's a 'good game' or not is rather beside the point. Is it ok to censor a game that is 'bad', but not a 'good' one?

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thefallenalchemist: I've been a loyal supporter of GOG for a while, and there's really nowhere else I buy my games.
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Time4Tea: Have you tried Zoom Platform? Imo, they seem to be the most viable alternative to GOG at the moment.

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thefallenalchemist: Ultimately, I'm here to stay as long as there is nothing else. I'd love for all PC gamers to just boycott all the companies and refuse new releases, even indie titles until DRM was removed and offline installers were mandatory for every game ever released on PC and I am not kidding. You can do this with adult hentai and porn games via MangaGamer, Jast and DLSite, so why do these big tech companies have to force their clients and

DRM when it comes to non-adult games? Heck, I'd rather it be like the old days, where you just enter a code to install the game that you would get in a manual (which would in this case be an email or a purchase message). But that's more extreme than the OP. Yeah, it can be a bit much to want all PC gamers to boycott every PC game ever released with DRM until DRM is no longer a thing, nor clients, but that's my dream. People are gonna pirate the stuff anyway, but hey - at least some people still pay for it.
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Time4Tea: Then perhaps you should live that dream and stop buying games from Steam.
Let me explain this. I mean that they just stop with DRM-Free altogether and become steam. A couple of games might be a cause for concern, but these seem to be features I can live without. If they drop DRM-Free completely, I'll leave.

Isn't Zoom the Skype thing? I don't use that either.

Even if I stopped buying games from Steam, they're basically Walmart. People boycott Walmart all the time, it doesn't stop them from being the world's largest retailer. One guy quits, millions, if not billions of people could care less.
Posted January 13, 2021
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wolfsite: But Steam is also bending the knee to China and is even creating a custom Steam app to conform to Chinese Censor laws.
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M3troid: Everyone do this. Sony, Nintendo, MS, etc.

At least steam does not remove games because "the gamers" say so.
Actually Steam has been accused of blocking games that the CCP would have issue with

https://gamerant.com/hong-kong-protest-game-china-ban-steam/
Posted January 13, 2021
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Time4Tea: Several times in recent months, GOG has given incentives only to Galaxy users in the form of bonus content or free games. This has the effect of making non-Galaxy users feel like second-class customers.
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frogthroat: First thing you said that I disagree with. Those incentives are for people to use the Galaxy. It's marketing. And trust me, you didn't miss anything in Cyberpunk 2077. Just some clothing (and not very good stats) that have the Witcher logo. And it's FPP so you don't see your clothes anyway. It's just fancy marketing -- "here's free stuff! It's shiny and sparkling! Completely useless, but it's free!" If it would be some bonus quest or something actually useful, I would wholeheartedly agree with you. But it's cosmetics in Cyberpunk 2077. It's cool to have, but you don't miss anything if you don't have it. Exactly the type of bonus that I am ok with in this kind of marketing.
Well, bear in mind that point is not just referring to the Cyberpunk rewards (hence 'several times in recent months'). GOG have also been giving more substantial benefits only to Galaxy users. For example, just a few weeks ago, they gave Witcher 1 as a freebie to only Galaxy users, but not non-Galaxy. So, it seems clear who their 'preferred customers' are.

My main issue with the Cyberpunk rewards is the DRM, not the fact it is just for Galaxy users.

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Time4Tea: If that's what you want to do, that's up to you. But i don't think it changes the point I was making - that you shouldn't be under any illusion that doing so is somehow helping the DRM-free movement. In fact, it's not even neutral. In buying from Steam, you are just further validating the developer's position that DRM is a-ok.
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GamezRanker: Thing is, they already believe that.....one extra person buying a game to confirm that doesn't change much...and the DRM free movement sadly isn't likely going to go far unless many more people get on board.

(i'd like to see it grow, btw....it's just I don't see that as likely atm)
Tbh, I see that as a bit of a cop-out. It's kind of like saying there's no point in voting in a national election, because one person's voice alone won't change anything. Many people seem to use that excuse for inaction and it's a self-fulfilling mindset. The mega-corps are relying on just that sort of consumer apathy to cement their power and control.

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Time4Tea: If that's what you want to do, that's up to you. But i don't think it changes the point I was making - that you shouldn't be under any illusion that doing so is somehow helping the DRM-free movement. In fact, it's not even neutral. In buying from Steam, you are just further validating the developer's position that DRM is a-ok.
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Dogmaus: you might be surprised at how much is drm-free on Steam, it's just not mentioned. Last game I got there was a simple exe file I can move anywhere and launch at my will. I wonder if there's even more DRM-free games there, given how huge is that store compared to GOG. You might have to make your own installer but at least it doesn't take ages to download.
Some games will never make it to GOG, because curation. But are DRM free on Steam. So...
This is why it is so damaging for GOG to allow any DRM on their store at all. When they are 100% DRM-free, they can claim the moral high-ground. But, if they are going down the route of opening up to DRM, there's no reason not to just buy it from Steam. As you say, they also sell DRM-free games (along with many DRMed ones). I could probably get them cheaper there and they'd be more likely to work in Linux on Proton.

The only value I see to GOG being DRM-free is if is 100%. If it's only 99%, they immediately give up that moral high ground for a battleground they are not going to win on.
Post edited January 13, 2021 by Time4Tea
Posted January 13, 2021
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thefallenalchemist: Let me explain this. I mean that they just stop with DRM-Free altogether and become steam. A couple of games might be a cause for concern, but these seem to be features I can live without. If they drop DRM-Free completely, I'll leave.
Ok, but as Dogmaus pointed out in the post above, Steam also sell some DRM-free games. So, where do you draw that line, where GOG would be 'stopping DRM-free altogether'? If they get rid of the offline installers? For me, that would definitely be the final nail in the coffin. However, they seem to be on a slow and steady path towards that. So, imo, the time to make a stand and protest is now. If we wait much longer, it will be too late and there won't be anything left to save.

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thefallenalchemist: Isn't Zoom the Skype thing? I don't use that either.
No, Zoom Platform is different to Zoom chat and not in any way affiliated. They just happen to have a very similar name. They seem to be a good DRM-free games store, worth checking out. I've bought several good games from them recently:

- Duke Nukem 3D
- Commandos, Behind Enemy Lines
- AvP Gold
- Deponia

(first post updated to #414)
Post edited January 13, 2021 by Time4Tea
Posted January 13, 2021
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@Time4Tea

Ha!!! You attacked me on a morrowind modding site for saying 'Lore is Law' 'Canon is truth'

Vicious ****** like you attack people for wanting something true to form... Then you want a boycott when something happens that doesnt go your way? LOLOL I asked for mods, that are true to the original game... And you ******* attacked me for it, and got me banned off the site...

BANNED OFF A FORUM! FOR HAVING A THREAD ABOUT STAY TRUE TO THE SUBJECT MATTER!!!

So what the hell are you doing right now? ****** yourself...


[*Post edited by PainOfSalvation: Please remain civil and don't insult other users.]
Post edited January 13, 2021 by PainOfSalvation
Posted January 13, 2021
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M3troid: Everyone do this. Sony, Nintendo, MS, etc.

At least steam does not remove games because "the gamers" say so.
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wolfsite: Actually Steam has been accused of blocking games that the CCP would have issue with

https://gamerant.com/hong-kong-protest-game-china-ban-steam/
Didn't knew about that. Screw steam too, then.
Posted January 13, 2021
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Joseph_Grey: @Time4Tea

Ha!!! You attacked me on a morrowind modding site for saying 'Lore is Law' 'Canon is truth'
Oh .... HI! It's always nice to see old friends.

No, I didn't attack you. I disagreed with you about something and you interpreted it as an attack.

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Joseph_Grey: BANNED OFF A FORUM! FOR HAVING A THREAD ABOUT STAY TRUE TO THE SUBJECT MATTER!!!
You were banned from the OpenMW forum for being abusive. My understanding is the mods there gave you several warnings and you ignored all of them. What did you expect, tbh?
Posted January 13, 2021
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wolfsite: Actually Steam has been accused of blocking games that the CCP would have issue with

https://gamerant.com/hong-kong-protest-game-china-ban-steam/
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M3troid: Didn't knew about that. Screw steam too, then.
The simple matter is, corporations have forgotten, that they are the property of the customers... We pay the salaries, but we dont get the product...

You know, like Twitter banning the sitting president from communicating with the public. Which is a federal crime, it is under law that the sitting president has the right to communicate by any means... But who does Twitter work for? Not the people who made it worth anything...
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Joseph_Grey: @Time4Tea

Ha!!! You attacked me on a morrowind modding site for saying 'Lore is Law' 'Canon is truth'
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Time4Tea: Oh .... HI! It's always nice to see old friends.

No, I didn't attack you. I disagreed with you about something and you interpreted it as an attack.

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Joseph_Grey: BANNED OFF A FORUM! FOR HAVING A THREAD ABOUT STAY TRUE TO THE SUBJECT MATTER!!!
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Time4Tea: You were banned from the OpenMW forum for being abusive. My understanding is the mods there gave you several warnings and you ignored all of them. What did you expect, tbh?
Uh no, I made a sound argument for why 'story telling' and 'engine mechanics' are not the same thing... And all people did was drone on and on about how they dont know the difference between 'narrative' and 'coding'

Its been a while, but i recall some retard saying 'the game was pulled in different directions by people in development' but i still dont see any schizophrenic behavior in the story telling... Its a fluid, well thought out narrative. But hey, you cant argue with drunks...

And if I respond poorly to people mocking me for having a thread with a stated purpose that was brazenly ignored by nearly everyone... Then that is still less abusive, then, a mob of mockers who are too stupid to understand what they were talking about...
Post edited January 13, 2021 by Joseph_Grey
Posted January 13, 2021
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Time4Tea: I would like to announce that I have decided to boycott GOG for 2021. This is in response to several decisions the site has made over the past year that I believe have been deeply misguided:

Firstly, the continued slippage of GOG's DRM-free values. The promise of 100% DRM-free is what the site was originally founded on and yet GOG seem to be allowing this principle to be increasingly eroded. The games No Man's Sky and Absolver are two examples of games that include single-player DRM, which GOG is aware of and has failed to address. CDPR also seem to continue to believe the rules on GOG don't apply to their own games, firstly with Gwent and more recently the DRMed single-player rewards built into Cyberpunk. In addition, GOG's recent deal with Epic appears to be a cover for GOG to start selling DRMed games.

Next, the continued heavy pushing of Galaxy and the lack of maintenance of the offline installers. Several times in recent months, GOG has given incentives only to Galaxy users in the form of bonus content or free games. This has the effect of making non-Galaxy users feel like second-class customers. Also, there many well documented cases of GOG neglecting to update offline installers, even though they are updating the Galaxy versions, so they clearly have the updated files. This is not acceptable - offline installers are the core of the DRM-free concept. All of this points to a worrying trend which may ultimately lead to GOG abandoning offline installers entirely and making Galaxy mandatory.

Lastly, the recent debacle with Devotion. I won't repeat everything that has been said about this in other threads, but GOG's decision to be complicit in imposing Chinese censorship on non-Chinese users is simply unacceptable. The game needs to be released on GOG immediately.

Actions I would like to see GOG taking:

1) Release Devotion immediately.
2) Remove Gwent, No Man's Sky, Absolver (and any other DRMed games) from the store.
3) Remove DRM from the bonus cosmetics in Cyberpunk.
4) Cancel the deal with Epic.
5) Stop providing free games/incentives only to Galaxy users.
6) Assign adequate resources to maintenance of the offline installers.

For me to make any purchases on GOG this year, #1 needs to happen and at least a couple of the others. I.e. I want to see clear signs of a change in trajectory of the site, away from it's current misguided direction towards being a weak Steam competitor and back towards the principles it was founded on. I had been planning to spend $150-200 on GOG this year, but instead I will be spending that at Zoom Platform, to help build up a viable DRM-free alternative store.

Is anyone else intending to boycott GOG? Who is with me?

Edit:

People who are boycotting, to whatever degree they're comfortable with:
1) Time4Tea
2) Lifthrasil
3) mrkgnao
4) joppo
5) kdgog
6) Ancient-Red-Dragon
7) ReynardFox
8) Seceroth
9) TencentInvestor
10) pearnon
11) Leevi
12) gloombandit
13) fronzelneekburm
14) MajicMan
15) Chaossaturn
16) john_hatcher
17) Grahor
18) Orkhepaj
19) rjbuffchix
20) B1tF1ghter
21) _Auster_
22) HappyPunkPotato
23) llamas
24) rtcvb32
25) Setilla
26) fr33kSh0w2012
27) Hexchild
28) GreasyDogMeat
29) GlorFindel
30) Vendor-Lazarus
31) DevotedTitan
32) Zegpi
33) gargus
34) DrearierSpider
35) WeirdoGeek
36) Zorzy
37) Kohleran
38) plagren
39) Lesser Blight Elemental
40) Captainchicken84
41) dycaite
42) Amiko Novich
43) gloombandit
44) Agent-94
45) evilprotoss

People who are sympathetic to the concept:
1) Breja
2) TerriblePurpose
3) morolf
4) DukeNukemForever
5) McMicroDonalds
6) WinterSnowfall
7) flanner
8) Dogmaus
9) GamezRanker
10) PirroEpirote
11) Paliper

(current as of post #414)
Thank you for doing this. It's hard to argue this topic while still maintaining a level head.

As for me I will use this store only to backup what I've purchased and will now support the devs mainly on Itch.io.

Itch.io, for those that might be reading this and are not aware, is a store front that really atrives to be open and not curated, at certain points to it's detriment since there is a lot of copycats, students amateur projects and even some adult games of questionable moral value (where there's a demographic there's a way I guess).

With that said though it's a store blooming with potencial, games like Celeste and Manifold Garden are there for example, unlike here for some reason, but also projects from talented indie dev teams like Chilla's Arts or Puppet Combo.

Yeah, it doesn't have the repertoire of AAA or AA titles that GOG has managed to accumulate over the years and that sucks but it's something I'm willing to let go and hope some of you can too. There's more to video games as an art medium than mainstream titles so that's that.

Oh, and for certain titles that aren't neither here or on Zoom or Itch.io you can probably find on the dev's website on sale with either the option for a Steam key or the drm free installer, titles like The Swapper, Druidstone or The Witness to name a few. Just consult the PC Gaming Wiki website if you're in doubt.

http://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Home

Stay safe and my thanks to everyone's efforts.
Post edited January 13, 2021 by TrueBlueGamer
Posted January 13, 2021
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Time4Tea: Well, bear in mind that point is not just referring to the Cyberpunk rewards (hence 'several times in recent months'). GOG have also been giving more substantial benefits only to Galaxy users. For example, just a few weeks ago, they gave Witcher 1 as a freebie to only Galaxy users, but not non-Galaxy. So, it seems clear who their 'preferred customers' are.
I got my The Witcher 1 ages ago by reading a magazine. For free. These rewards they offer are not really substantial. I mean, they literally gave away The Witcher 1 copies with a free magazine.

I do get it's the principle of the thing. What I am saying is don't worry too much about missing out. Steady that FOMO.

The actual rewards -- you're not missing anything
The principle of the thing -- keep up the good fight

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Time4Tea: My main issue with the Cyberpunk rewards is the DRM, not the fact it is just for Galaxy users.
Tru. DRM-free is not a scale. It either is DRM-free or it isn't.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionBoycotting DRM and Game Censorship on GOG, 2021-2022(5216 posts) (5216 posts) 
(5216 posts)