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Time4Tea: Thread title change has been requested.
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FrodoBaggins: If I understand this correctly...

Some of you don't want to use GOG anymore.
You create a lot of noise in the forum about not using GOG anymore.
Now you want GOG's help to make more noise about not using GOG anymore.

Does anyone else see the irony here???
Then you don’t understand it at all. We (well, I can only talk for myself) want GoG to put some effort and resource in to:
Fix the broken website, including the purple dot, the forum, the constant down repping, the spambots.
Fix the installers to provide proper functionality that you would expect from any store, changelogs, historical downloads, compressed installers for massive games, optional components split out eg. Language packs, hides videos, packaged up in such a way you don’t need to re download everything each time (a good example if serious Sam 4, missing a patch, huge download).
All games should have all content, regardless of it being a pixel, a picture, or a level fully downloadable and offline available

Optionally provide separate elements for things like scumvm, dosbox, and cpp extensions and such like to be separate, true they don’t take much space, but it’s still space and multiple different versions etc.
And to note, I don’t care a jot what “functionality” people think is in galaxy, it should be completely separate, perhaps even a different website considering how it is being used (microtransactions, online only, online gating etc.).

Do note that this is not all the reasons, just the ones that matter most to me, I know others are concerned about the censorship of devotion for instance, but you can read about that mostly in post 1.
This is all things which should have happened years ago rather than focusing on some quick cash from casual steam user sales or quick cash from epic sales. It’s been years now, and for all that time there hasn’t even been an acknowledgement of any issues (apart from hitman, but that was because people complained on social media), everything else has been swept under the rug. Now when you add to that CDPR and their cyberpunk product and attitude towards online only/Gwent and such like it’s simply got to the stage where I am no longer buying anything here due to all this.

If losing all your old userbase is just “noise” and of no concern, move on, I am sure the glorious online only future will be yours.
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Time4Tea: Thread title change has been requested.
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FrodoBaggins: If I understand this correctly...
Pretty much what nightcraw1er said - no, you don't understand it correctly.

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FrodoBaggins: Some of you don't want to use GOG anymore.
The misunderstanding seems to be in your first sentence here. No-one is saying they don't want to use GOG anymore. For myself: I am a GOG user. I like GOG and I want to buy games here. GOG has done a huge amount for DRM-free gaming and has an important place in a DRM-free games market.

But, I am not content with their recent direction, to introduce more games with locked content and shift away from their DRM-free roots (as well as imposing censorship at the behest of China). The purpose of the boycott is not to say "we are leaving", it is to push for a positive change in direction of the store and insist that they uphold their DRM-free promises.
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: Time4Tea, I agree with the overall gist of your assessment, however, I somewhat disagree on a couple of points.

Those being:

1. Your "updated" post for 2022 is quite underwhelming and unfulfilling IMO (but I don't mean any offense to you when I say that), because it neglected directly to re-address most of the big issues that are still outstanding, such as GOG's refusal to address the Devotion debacle.

By not re-naming those issues by name, and instead just vaguely citing your past posts about them, that is helping GOG to obscure the issues and, with the aid of much time having passed, (GOG hopes) to erase them from the public's memory.

Whereas the Devotion debacle was front & center at the beginning of the original boycott, now, as of 2022 with that "boycott update" post, it has been completely erased from getting any attention or discussion in the 2022 boycott, other than as a vague, obscure, ambiguous reference that could potentially mean anything.

That's not good.

Instead of completely burying the issue in obscure references, GOG needs to know that we still expect them to address the Devotion debacle, and the mere passage of lots of time since it happened does not, and will not, ever absolve them of that responsibility.

In other words, GOG doesn't get let off the hook, metaphorically speaking, solely because they've spent eons of time pretending like the Devotion debacle never happened, and ignoring its existence.

2. What you describe as "GOG listening to their customers" in regards to the Hitman GOTY debacle...I find that phrasing to be overly-generous to GOG. I, instead, interpret GOG's semi/pseudo response to the Hitman GOTY debacle to be:

...they realized they were bleeding money, and they also realized that they literally could not afford to outrage their customers on a mass scale yet again, and then ignore that same mass outrage yet again, like they did with the Devotion debacle.

Therefore, GOG semi/pseudo-responded to the Hitman GOTY debacle out of sheer desperation, and not out of any desire to "do the right thing," the latter of which is the incorrect positive connotation that the phrasing "listening to their customers" carries.

3. If GOG were really listening to their customers regarding the Hitman GOTY debacle, then they would have publicly answered all of the hardball questions about it that myself and others posted on this board, such as:

a) why did GOG release the DRM-infested Hitman GOTY game on GOG in the first place?

b) why did some GOG staff initially defend its DRM, saying things like GOG believes that gaming has evolved and devs should be able to sell games in the way how they want. And they also made similar comments saying that DRM is okay so long as it doesn't affect gameplay too much. GOG needs to give an explanation as to why they said those things, and if they believe those things still.

c) why did GOG take weeks to remove the game after it was released in it's DRM-infested state?

d) what, exactly, was GOG trying to negotiate with the devs during those weeks...was GOG attempting to negotiate a fudge, where they would have allowed a certain amount of DRM to remain, but not all of it? Yes or No?

4. When you say "the Hitman GOTY debacle came and went"...that implies like it's done & finished and resolved. But no, it isn't...because GOG deliberately ignores, and never answers, the types of questions which I've just described. Until they do (which they probably never will), then the Hitman GOTY debacle remains open, as it has not been fully resolved.

5. I find your concluding statement also to be overly-generous to GOG. That statement you cited from GOG does not actually sound "encouraging on the face of it" at all, because it's clearly just meaningless PR speak fluff talk, of telling the customers and shareholders what GOG thinks they want to hear.

If GOG really meant that statement, they would have, for example, removed the DRM from Cyberpunk 2077 between the months when they made that statement and the start of 2022. And they also could have announced cancellation of the EGS-DRM deal.

Instead, GOG did absolutely nothing to rectify any of their current DRM issues, nor even making any announcement that they plan to rectify their current DRM issues.

GOG's utter inaction on that front proves, and makes abundantly clear, that they are not actually re-committing to DRM-free, but rather, they were just regurgitating their main motto, "a curated selection of DRM-free games," because talk is cheap, and it doesn't cost them anything to say that (other than a further tarnished reputation, once most customers who care about DRM-free realize that GOG isn't ever going to deliver on their promise).
Man, I know I don't see eye-to-eye on the subject of achievements, but your comment here is like a 100% Platinum (or whatever the best one is) :) I can't speak for others on this but I know for myself that my trust in GOG was essentially breached forever with the Hitman debacle given that we are still lacking the resolution you mentioned. How can we have faith this store will be DRM-free when there have already been several "fudges" (as you succinctly put it) let alone a massively DRMed release which was up for weeks and still unexplained as to how it came to be here. I would like to add to this point as well, as I have across numerous topics: Not only do we need an explanation of what happened with the Hitman Online DRM release; but also, we need assurance that our existing games will be free from online connection requirements and other such "improvements" "developers designing their games how they want" "being modern" etc in our existing games.
Post edited January 03, 2022 by rjbuffchix
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Time4Tea: So, I personally don't see any reason to let up on the boycott. I am planning to buy a couple of things before the winter sale ends, to cut GOG some slack and offer them an 'olive branch' (probably around $20 max). Otherwise, I intend to carry on boycotting GOG for the rest of the year, like I did last year.
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richlind33: If you're going to do business with them then I think you should end the boycott. Seems pointless and weak to be flipping it on and off like a light switch.
I know Time4Tea's boycott requests have not been met by GOG, but keep in mind different people have different reasons for boycotting, so even if Tea's requests were met, the boycott and this thread would continue.
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Time4Tea: Just to clarify, I haven't yet requested the name change for the thread. I was going to hold off for a day or two, to make sure everyone was good with the way the voting was done first. So, let's hold off on the guns - I'll request it now.

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richlind33: If you're going to do business with them then I think you should end the boycott. Seems pointless and weak to be flipping it on and off like a light switch.
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Time4Tea: I have been saying for several months that my plan was to buy a couple of things in the January sale and then continue my boycott for the rest of 2022. I spent almost exactly $20 on GOG yesterday, for the first time in over a year. Over the past 12 months, I have spent almost $200 on Zoom Platform, which if not for the boycott I probably would have spent on GOG. I'd say a ~90% reduction in spending is still a pretty effective boycott.
That's fine as long as it's stipulated up front. You could make it so that the boycott only applies to non-sale purchases, but I think it should be clearly delineated, as should our grievances -- and the fewer, the better.


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richlind33: If you're going to do business with them then I think you should end the boycott. Seems pointless and weak to be flipping it on and off like a light switch.
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tfishell: I know Time4Tea's boycott requests have not been met by GOG, but keep in mind different people have different reasons for boycotting, so even if Tea's requests were met, the boycott and this thread would continue.
Historically, boycotts win or lose depending on how well they're organized, and how much support they can muster.
Post edited January 03, 2022 by richlind33
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Time4Tea: With regards to the 'state of the boycott', it seems that not a lot has changed since where we were a year ago. If I recall, there were some signs of GOG updating some of the offline installers. Does anyone know of an up-to-date list of which ones are still out-of-date?

The Hitman debacle came and went. It was good to see GOG listening to their users and doing the right thing to remove it; however, it is still not clear how a game with so much locked content got released on GOG in the first place and what, if anything, GOG is going to do differently to ensure similar releases don't happen again.

There was also a statement in CDPR's recent financial report that GOG is intending to go 'back to its roots' and refocus back onto DRM-free. This sounds encouraging on the face of it, but it is not clear what that really means and what concrete actions those words are going to translate into.

So, I personally don't see any reason to let up on the boycott. I am planning to buy a couple of things before the winter sale ends, to cut GOG some slack and offer them an 'olive branch' (probably around $20 max). Otherwise, I intend to carry on boycotting GOG for the rest of the year, like I did last year.
Go ahead and put yourself on the sympathetic list. Otherwise change the title of the forum name to, "Boycotting 2021-2022 (except for sales)"
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richlind33: That's fine as long as it's stipulated up front. You could make it so that the boycott only applies to non-sale purchases, but I think it should be clearly delineated, as should our grievances -- and the fewer, the better.
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kblazer883: Go ahead and put yourself on the sympathetic list. Otherwise change the title of the forum name to, "Boycotting 2021-2022 (except for sales)"
I'd like to point out that no hard and fast rules were ever set for how people should enact the boycott. It has always been said since the start of the thread that people are welcome to boycott in their own way and that people who are significantly reducing their spending on GOG.com can be considered to be boycotting.

I decided to purchase a couple of things in the January sale (at very deep discounts) because:

- as a gesture of goodwill, to show that I don't hate GOG (as several naysayers keep insinuating)
- to cut myself some slack, having boycotted the store for a year (which was the original intention)
- I was somewhat satisfied with the outcome of the Hitman incident and said at the time that I would consider offering a goodwill 'olive branch' (I believe in using the carrot as well as the stick)

The amount I spent was 10% of what I spent on Zoom Platform over the past year. You're entitled to your opinions, but I'm not a black-or-white person and in my opinion someone who is drastically reducing their spending can still be considered to be an effective boycotter.
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Wow i've been gone for a while; since when was there a specific list of demands?
I mean sure we hate galaxy and the casual slide to DRM territory, but I never saw anything that said we the people of GOG want x), y) & z).

Probably more useful to have what we believe will be effective assurances stated.
I don't think we even got that out of the Hitman fiasco; just an oops we stuffed up, we've corrected it this one time, but our wording hasn't significantly changed nor our assumption of what passes muster in our community.
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kblazer883: Go ahead and put yourself on the sympathetic list. Otherwise change the title of the forum name to, "Boycotting 2021-2022 (except for sales)"
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Time4Tea: I'd like to point out that no hard and fast rules were ever set for how people should enact the boycott. It has always been said since the start of the thread that people are welcome to boycott in their own way and that people who are significantly reducing their spending on GOG.com can be considered to be boycotting.
[...]
nah, as soon as you buy aproduct, you are just setting the price to which you are selling out. basically, when the price is right, you drop your principles.

There are no definition of boycott which invlolves limited engagment in any way. Fine, you want to shop less or spend less monies here, but thats far away from boycotting.

Miriam Webster:
Full Definition of boycott
transitive verb
: to engage in a concerted refusal to have dealings with (a person, a store, an organization, etc.) usually to express disapproval or to force acceptance of certain conditions

From Oxford Languages:
Boycott
verb
gerund or present participle: boycotting
withdraw from commercial or social relations with (a country, organization, or person) as a punishment or protest.
"we will boycott all banks which take part in the loans scheme"
refuse to buy or handle (goods) as a punishment or protest.
"an advert urges consumers to boycott the firm's coffee"
refuse to cooperate with or participate in (a policy or event).
"most parties indicated that they would boycott the election"

From Wikipedia:
A boycott is an act of nonviolent, voluntary and intentional abstention from using or buying a product, or dealing with a person, organization, or country as an expression of protest, usually for moral, social, political, or environmental reasons.

From Cambridge Dictionary:
boycott
verb
to refuse to buy a product or take part in an activity as a way of expressing strong disapproval:

From Free Dictionary:
verb (used with object)
to combine in abstaining from, or preventing dealings with, as a means of intimidation or coercion:
to boycott a store.
to abstain from buying or using:
to boycott foreign products.

etc etc etc.

Again, if you want to protests by spending less monies or only buy products when they are on sale, that's perfectly fine. but do not think or try to describe this action any shape or form as a boycott, because it is not.
Post edited January 04, 2022 by amok
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Time4Tea: I'd like to point out that no hard and fast rules were ever set for how people should enact the boycott. It has always been said since the start of the thread that people are welcome to boycott in their own way and that people who are significantly reducing their spending on GOG.com can be considered to be boycotting.
[...]
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amok: nah, as soon as you buy aproduct, you are just setting the price to which you are selling out. basically, when the price is right, you drop your principles.

There are no definition of boycott which invlolves limited engagment in any way. Fine, you want to shop less or spend less monies here, but thats far away from boycotting.

[appeals to dictionary definitions]
I am one of the people who consider myself boycotting with drastically reduced spending. What your post misses is how language works on a fundamental level. The fact that people in this topic have adopted the term "boycott" despite limited engagement and are basically agreeable to it, means this is now part of the definition, at least here amongst those who know and agree. For all you know, when the new edition of a dictionary releases, it may include our definition too alongside the others :) After all, people's speech doesn't simply wait for the next edition of a dictionary to come out or wikipedia to be updated...it is an organic ever-evolving phenomenon. No matter how much that literally...or is it figuratively... upsets others.
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amok: Again, if you want to protests by spending less monies or only buy products when they are on sale, that's perfectly fine. but do not think or try to describe this action any shape or form as a boycott, because it is not.
Well said, amok. Always a good thing to use language in accordance with established definitions.
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amok: Again, if you want to protests by spending less monies or only buy products when they are on sale, that's perfectly fine. but do not think or try to describe this action any shape or form as a boycott, because it is not.
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richlind33: Well said, amok. Always a good thing to use language in accordance with established definitions.
I would have to agree with that as a general practice. But if we're getting into that territory, let's scrutinize. I see no requirement in those definitions that the refusal, withdrawal, punishment, protest, coercion etc. would have to be consistent. The only actual qualifier to that I see in any of them is "concerted" and only one of the definitions includes that.

The most you could argue IMO is that if the refusal is not all-encompassing, this implies the boycott is also not all-encompassing. I think that's fair to argue in such cases, but I don't see that there's much point in that line of argumentation.
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Time4Tea: I'd like to point out that no hard and fast rules were ever set for how people should enact the boycott. It has always been said since the start of the thread that people are welcome to boycott in their own way and that people who are significantly reducing their spending on GOG.com can be considered to be boycotting.
Well said

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Time4Tea: The amount I spent was 10% of what I spent on Zoom Platform over the past year. You're entitled to your opinions, but I'm not a black-or-white person and in my opinion someone who is drastically reducing their spending can still be considered to be an effective boycotter.
Some advice: do as you will, but imo you shouldn't waste your precious time explaining yourself or your actions to those posting such obvious bait posts
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Ok, so apparently the community forum moderators aren't able to change the thread title. I'll have to reach out to a blue staff member for that, which I will do now. Thanks for your patience.

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Time4Tea: With regards to the 'state of the boycott', it seems that not a lot has changed since where we were a year ago. If I recall, there were some signs of GOG updating some of the offline installers. Does anyone know of an up-to-date list of which ones are still out-of-date?
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mrkgnao: As always:
https://airtable.com/shrldLsErlUf3eHqS/tbltXjS8fxEGG11eD
Thanks for this reminder. I plan on updating the first post over the next couple of days and I will add a link to this there.
Post edited January 04, 2022 by Time4Tea
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: Time4Tea, I agree with the overall gist of your assessment, however, I somewhat disagree on a couple of points.
Hi ARD, thanks for your post and you make a lot of good points here. I will respond to them below.

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Ancient-Red-Dragon: 1. Your "updated" post for 2022 is quite underwhelming and unfulfilling IMO (but I don't mean any offense to you when I say that), because it neglected directly to re-address most of the big issues that are still outstanding, such as GOG's refusal to address the Devotion debacle.

By not re-naming those issues by name, and instead just vaguely citing your past posts about them, that is helping GOG to obscure the issues and, with the aid of much time having passed, (GOG hopes) to erase them from the public's memory.
You are right that my 'update post' for the end of the year was a bit short. I have been really busy recently with other things. I also tend to forget that when people open the thread, it automatically goes to the last page, so many might not see the first post with the list of grievances.

I will make a more detailed 'end of year summary' post over the next few days - I will repost the list and comment on each of the points individually.

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Ancient-Red-Dragon: 2. What you describe as "GOG listening to their customers" in regards to the Hitman GOTY debacle...I find that phrasing to be overly-generous to GOG. I, instead, interpret GOG's semi/pseudo response to the Hitman GOTY debacle to be:

...they realized they were bleeding money, and they also realized that they literally could not afford to outrage their customers on a mass scale yet again, and then ignore that same mass outrage yet again, like they did with the Devotion debacle.

Therefore, GOG semi/pseudo-responded to the Hitman GOTY debacle out of sheer desperation, and not out of any desire to "do the right thing," the latter of which is the incorrect positive connotation that the phrasing "listening to their customers" carries.

3. If GOG were really listening to their customers regarding the Hitman GOTY debacle, then they would have publicly answered all of the hardball questions about it that myself and others posted on this board, such as:

a) why did GOG release the DRM-infested Hitman GOTY game on GOG in the first place?

b) why did some GOG staff initially defend its DRM, saying things like GOG believes that gaming has evolved and devs should be able to sell games in the way how they want. And they also made similar comments saying that DRM is okay so long as it doesn't affect gameplay too much. GOG needs to give an explanation as to why they said those things, and if they believe those things still.

c) why did GOG take weeks to remove the game after it was released in it's DRM-infested state?

d) what, exactly, was GOG trying to negotiate with the devs during those weeks...was GOG attempting to negotiate a fudge, where they would have allowed a certain amount of DRM to remain, but not all of it? Yes or No?

4. When you say "the Hitman GOTY debacle came and went"...that implies like it's done & finished and resolved. But no, it isn't...because GOG deliberately ignores, and never answers, the types of questions which I've just described. Until they do (which they probably never will), then the Hitman GOTY debacle remains open, as it has not been fully resolved.
Regarding Hitman, it seems we have some differences of opinion and I respect the points you make. For me, the main positive that came out of it was that we saw GOG backing down and reversing a decision, for the first time in a long time. Whether it was because they 'listened to their customers' or not I agree is debatable. It is possible that their hand was forced when they started to get negative press coverage over it. However, it at least showed that, despite GOG/CDPR's size, they will back down on bad decisions if there is enough widespread criticism. That is imo a good sign and a limited victory for the DRM-free crowd.

I agree with you that they didn't go far enough in providing the answers and reassurances that many people wanted and their communication with their user base is, as always, minimal and leaves a lot to be desired.

When I say the "Hitman debacle came and went", I didn't mean to imply that it was fully resolved. What I really mean by that is that the whole incident hasn't really changed anything, with regards to the boycott and where we were a year ago. We got the right outcome, in terms of the game being removed, but there is no sign of any change in direction of GOG away from their gradual 'testing of the waters' with DRM-ed content. A change in direction would need to be shown by addressing some of the listed boycott issues, or perhaps by providing some of the reassurances that you mentioned. But that didn't happen, so their direction is apparently the same and so it's almost as if the Hitman incident had never happened.

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Ancient-Red-Dragon: 5. I find your concluding statement also to be overly-generous to GOG. That statement you cited from GOG does not actually sound "encouraging on the face of it" at all, because it's clearly just meaningless PR speak fluff talk, of telling the customers and shareholders what GOG thinks they want to hear.
Tbh, I feel like you're splitting hairs a bit with this final point. In my mind, "encouraging on the face of it" and "meaningless PR speak" are fairly consistent descriptions. I.e. describing words without the necessary actions to back them up.