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General discussionBoycotting DRM and Game Censorship on GOG, 2021-2022(5216 posts) (5216 posts) 
(5216 posts) 
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This is my favourite topic
Posted July 07, 2021
Well, I just ordered something (boo, hiss) - but it is a freebie - the movie:

Fechtbuch: The Real Swordfighting behind Kingdom Come

(link provided as service to all boycotters interested in boosting GOG's bandwidth bill - 8.4GB for the HD version).
Posted July 07, 2021
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AstralWanderer: Well, I just ordered something (boo, hiss) - but it is a freebie - the movie:

Fechtbuch: The Real Swordfighting behind Kingdom Come

(link provided as service to all boycotters interested in boosting GOG's bandwidth bill - 8.4GB for the HD version).
Nice. In my opinion, getting free stuff from GOG does not break the boycott. Others may disagree (there was a lengthy discussion), but my decision at least was to give GOG no money until they rectify their behaviour. Getting free stuff at their expense is OK in my book.
Posted July 07, 2021
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Lifthrasil: Nice. In my opinion, getting free stuff from GOG does not break the boycott. Others may disagree (there was a lengthy discussion), but my decision at least was to give GOG no money until they rectify their behaviour. Getting free stuff at their expense is OK in my book.
But, is it at their expense, or the developer's?

I also agree that accepting free games doesn't 'break the boycott'. However, I have avoided doing that myself, since I am unclear as to who pays for it. If I knew that GOG still pays the developers their share for free giveaway games, I would take them. I just want to make sure the devs are still getting paid.
Posted July 07, 2021
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Lifthrasil: Nice. In my opinion, getting free stuff from GOG does not break the boycott. Others may disagree (there was a lengthy discussion), but my decision at least was to give GOG no money until they rectify their behaviour. Getting free stuff at their expense is OK in my book.
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Time4Tea: But, is it at their expense, or the developer's?

I also agree that accepting free games doesn't 'break the boycott'. However, I have avoided doing that myself, since I am unclear as to who pays for it. If I knew that GOG still pays the developers their share for free giveaway games, I would take them. I just want to make sure the devs are still getting paid.
The item in question is not a giveaway. It's simply a free item, made such by the developer. I don't believe anyone gets paid for it.
Posted July 08, 2021
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AstralWanderer: Well, I just ordered something (boo, hiss) - but it is a freebie - the movie:

Fechtbuch: The Real Swordfighting behind Kingdom Come

(link provided as service to all boycotters interested in boosting GOG's bandwidth bill - 8.4GB for the HD version).
Ha! Lol. Thank you for the homage! :P I feel honored xD

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Lifthrasil: Nice. In my opinion, getting free stuff from GOG does not break the boycott. Others may disagree (there was a lengthy discussion), but my decision at least was to give GOG no money until they rectify their behaviour. Getting free stuff at their expense is OK in my book.
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Time4Tea: But, is it at their expense, or the developer's?

I also agree that accepting free games doesn't 'break the boycott'. However, I have avoided doing that myself, since I am unclear as to who pays for it. If I knew that GOG still pays the developers their share for free giveaway games, I would take them. I just want to make sure the devs are still getting paid.
Product cost wise - not sure - tho *technically* speaking it is the developer/publisher that sets the price so I take it that decision was intentional in this case.

But, distribution wise - it's clearly a bandwidth and some server load cost to GOG.
Yes, literally, accepting *free* stuff, even merely downloading demos from GOG rises their bills - is it a significant rise in cost? - that's debatable, what is *not* debatable is that cost *does* exist for them for each user involved.

In before I get downvoted for bringing valid points, as per usual /s
Posted July 08, 2021
low rated
One point I overlooked with the free film link is that making use of it is a positive action that can be tracked by GOG, so people making use of it are sending a clearer signal than the less-easy-to-measure withdrawal of custom (so even those not currently boycotting may wish to make use of it).

Even a small number of extra orders could serve as a deterrent to GOG management on further DRM, since they will (quite possibly) be calculating the scale of future protests based on the activity (and longevity) of this thread.
Posted July 08, 2021
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Lifthrasil: Nice. In my opinion, getting free stuff from GOG does not break the boycott. Others may disagree (there was a lengthy discussion), but my decision at least was to give GOG no money until they rectify their behaviour. Getting free stuff at their expense is OK in my book.
Yep, I also get the freebies when they are there, but that's rare; or in some cases you have a 24 hours to collect and i see the email 3 days after the event...
Posted July 08, 2021
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mrkgnao: The item in question is not a giveaway. It's simply a free item, made such by the developer. I don't believe anyone gets paid for it.
Ok. I was referring more to the freebie game giveaways in general (i.e. Hellpoint, Brigador), rather than that specific example.

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B1tF1ghter: Product cost wise - not sure - tho *technically* speaking it is the developer/publisher that sets the price so I take it that decision was intentional in this case.

But, distribution wise - it's clearly a bandwidth and some server load cost to GOG.
Yes, literally, accepting *free* stuff, even merely downloading demos from GOG rises their bills - is it a significant rise in cost? - that's debatable, what is *not* debatable is that cost *does* exist for them for each user involved.
I'm referring to the actual purchase price of the game, as opposed to GOG's overheads. I.e. who is offering the game for free - GOG or the developers? Who do I thank for it?

The other way to look at it is: do the developers still get paid, if I claim a free game? (the impression I get is that they don't)
Post edited July 08, 2021 by Time4Tea
Posted July 08, 2021
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mrkgnao: The item in question is not a giveaway. It's simply a free item, made such by the developer. I don't believe anyone gets paid for it.
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Time4Tea: Ok. I was referring more to the freebie game giveaways in general (i.e. Hellpoint, Brigador), rather than that specific example.

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B1tF1ghter: Product cost wise - not sure - tho *technically* speaking it is the developer/publisher that sets the price so I take it that decision was intentional in this case.

But, distribution wise - it's clearly a bandwidth and some server load cost to GOG.
Yes, literally, accepting *free* stuff, even merely downloading demos from GOG rises their bills - is it a significant rise in cost? - that's debatable, what is *not* debatable is that cost *does* exist for them for each user involved.
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Time4Tea: I'm referring to the actual purchase price of the game, as opposed to GOG's overheads. I.e. who is offering the game for free - GOG or the developers? Who do I thank for it?

The other way to look at it is: do the developers still get paid, if I claim a free game? (the impression I get is that they don't)
Could be either.

But... GOG cannot legally drop a price to a rock bottom zero without legal authorisation from the publisher/developer.
Ergo, if clause allowing GOG to do that (without consulting with dev/pub first) is *not* in the contract then GOG could be exceptionally easily sued for such actions (if they would suddenly drop a price and not pay the dev/pub the contracted agreed income).
Posted July 08, 2021
low rated
I have a dilemma.

Two years ago, after playing Shadowhand --- one of the best games I have played in recent years --- I contacted the developers --- the only developer I have ever done so --- and urged them to release their other games (Regency Solitaire and Ancient Enemy) on GOG, promising to buy them here upon release. Now Ancient Enemy has finally arrived, but I'm boycotting GOG.

Not sure what I should do.
Post edited July 08, 2021 by mrkgnao
Posted July 08, 2021
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mrkgnao: I have a dilemma.

Two years ago, after playing Shadowhand --- one of the best games I have played in recent years --- I contacted the developers --- the only developer I have ever done so --- and urged them to release their other games (Regency Solitaire and Ancient Enemy) on GOG, promising to buy them here upon release. Now Ancient Enemy has finally arrived, but I'm boycotting GOG.

Not sure what I should do.
Continue the boycott and persuade the developers to release their game DRM-free elsewhere.
Posted July 08, 2021
low rated
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mrkgnao: I have a dilemma.

Two years ago, after playing Shadowhand --- one of the best games I have played in recent years --- I contacted the developers --- the only developer I have ever done so --- and urged them to release their other games (Regency Solitaire and Ancient Enemy) on GOG, promising to buy them here upon release. Now Ancient Enemy has finally arrived, but I'm boycotting GOG.

Not sure what I should do.
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B1tF1ghter: Continue the boycott and persuade the developers to release their game DRM-free elsewhere.
I expect it's already DRM-free on Steam.
Posted July 08, 2021
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B1tF1ghter: Continue the boycott and persuade the developers to release their game DRM-free elsewhere.
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mrkgnao: I expect it's already DRM-free on Steam.
Some people will argue that but "DRM free after installing" is not "100% DRM free".
Otherwise Steam would already be recognised by general public as a platform with vast catalouge of "DRM free" games.
It's true - "DRM free after installing" is far superior to any DRM - but you are still relying on a custom piece of software in order to obtain it.
It's not "100%" DRM free per se.
It is DRM free but only after downloading, and the download process cannot be done through browser, ergo you are vastly limited in your choices and where you can run the downloading software.

Personally, I am ok with "DRM free after installing" but I would still rather have complete freedom over installer obtainment (ergo browser based download).

I just did a quick checkup.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding something, or perhaps there's a mistake in PCGW, nontheless the game (assuming I got the right one) does not seem to be developed by the same company:
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Ancient_Enemy
[url=https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Company:Positech_Games]https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Company:Positech_Games[/url]

And it also seems to have Steamworks integration (inclusion of steamapi.dll **), which means it likely needs Steam emulator (ergo NOT "DRM free ootb" after installing but requiring some extra steps).
I'm sorry - I don't know what's your level of expertise on Steam technical side of things - but just because a game does not contain "big DRM" like Denuvo / SecuROM and such does NOT mean it is automatically "DRM free after installing".
A general rule is that if a game contains Steamworks integration (which BY ITSELF is NOT a DRM) then it *usually* also contains Steam-protocol based "is Steam running" checkup and therefore would still require Steam emulator in order to be MADE "DRM free after installing".

There's probably around few thousand true "DRM free after installing" games on Steam.
But it's generally a fraction of total games on Steam and there's far more "DRM free after using Steam emulator" ones.

**
Search for "steam" in the search field
https://steamdb.info/depot/993792/

There's also "steamstub.dll" present which hints at "Steam stub" DRM being used - and even tho it is pretty damn casual from of DRM that can be bypassed with casual technical knowledge (by some people) - it is still no longer "DRM free after installing ootb".

Also, the game in question appears to be already available DRM-free on itch:
https://greyaliengames.itch.io/ancient-enemy?ac=Q8uS8a4hVvG
Posted July 08, 2021
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mrkgnao: I expect it's already DRM-free on Steam.
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B1tF1ghter: Some people will argue that but "DRM free after installing" is not "100% DRM free".
This difference, for me, is irrelevant.

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B1tF1ghter: Otherwise Steam would already be recognised by general public as a platform with vast catalouge of "DRM free" games.
It is already recognised as such, by the only general public I care about, myself.

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B1tF1ghter: It's true - "DRM free after installing" is far superior to any DRM - but you are still relying on a custom piece of software in order to obtain it.
It's not "100%" DRM free per se.
It is DRM free but only after downloading, and the download process cannot be done through browser, ergo you are vastly limited in your choices and where you can run the downloading software.
I also rely on a custom piece of software for GOG. Two actually --- gogrepoc and the GOG installer.

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B1tF1ghter: Personally, I am ok with "DRM free after installing" but I would still rather have complete freedom over installer obtainment (ergo browser based download).

I just did a quick checkup.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding something, or perhaps there's a mistake in PCGW, nontheless the game (assuming I got the right one) does not seem to be developed by the same company:
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Ancient_Enemy
[url=https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Company:Positech_Games]https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Company:Positech_Games[/url]
I'm talking about the developer (Grey Alien), not the publisher.

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B1tF1ghter: And it also seems to have Steamworks integration (inclusion of steamapi.dll **), which means it likely needs Steam emulator (ergo NOT "DRM free ootb" after installing but requiring some extra steps).
I'm sorry - I don't know what's your level of expertise on Steam technical side of things - but just because a game does not contain "big DRM" like Denuvo / SecuROM and such does NOT mean it is automatically "DRM free after installing".
A general rule is that if a game contains Steamworks integration (which BY ITSELF is NOT a DRM) then it *usually* also contains Steam-protocol based "is Steam running" checkup and therefore would still require Steam emulator in order to be MADE "DRM free after installing".
That's indeed a risk, but that risk (to a lesser degree) also exists on GOG, as we well know.

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B1tF1ghter: There's probably around few thousand true "DRM free after installing" games on Steam.
But it's generally a fraction of total games on Steam and there's far more "DRM free after using Steam emulator" ones.
Given the huge number of small indie games on Steam, I tend to believe it's more than 50% of Steam's catalogue. Can't prove it, though.

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B1tF1ghter: **
Search for "steam" in the search field
https://steamdb.info/depot/993792/

There's also "steamstub.dll" present which hints at "Steam stub" DRM being used - and even tho it is pretty damn casual from of DRM that can be bypassed with casual technical knowledge (by some people) - it is still no longer "DRM free after installing ootb".

Also, the game in question appears to be already available DRM-free on itch:
https://greyaliengames.itch.io/ancient-enemy?ac=Q8uS8a4hVvG
A dilemma indeed.
Posted July 08, 2021
low rated
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mrkgnao: I have a dilemma.

Two years ago, after playing Shadowhand --- one of the best games I have played in recent years --- I contacted the developers --- the only developer I have ever done so --- and urged them to release their other games (Regency Solitaire and Ancient Enemy) on GOG, promising to buy them here upon release. Now Ancient Enemy has finally arrived, but I'm boycotting GOG.

Not sure what I should do.
Decided to buy it on Steam. I believe the developer gets the same amount of money as if I had bought it on GOG.

As expected, the game is client-free (a.k.a. DRM-free) on Steam. Played it for a few minutes, looks good.

If I later decide to end my GOG boycott, I'll buy it again here.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionBoycotting DRM and Game Censorship on GOG, 2021-2022(5216 posts) (5216 posts) 
(5216 posts)