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General discussionBoycotting DRM and Game Censorship on GOG, 2021-2022(5216 posts) (5216 posts) 
(5216 posts) 
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This is my favourite topic
Posted July 03, 2021
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dtgreene: The problem is that Steam explicitly encourages and provides DRM, so even if you buy a game that happens to not be infected with it, a portion of what you pay goes toward the development of DRM.

Furthermore, there's the issue that Steam doesn't make it clear which games are DRM-encumbered and which are not, and further there's no guarantee that DRM won't be added in an update.
I will also add that Steam provides no support whatsoever to facilitate DRM-free gaming. Afaik, they have no offline installers and it is not possible to download and install a DRM-free game you have purchased there without either using the Steam client or a third-party workaround, which is far from ideal.

Even if Steam provided offline installers, I would not buy games from them, due to the fact that they actively provide and push DRM and they are probably the one actor that has been the most responsible for the normalization of DRM and client integration in games over the past 20 years.
Posted July 03, 2021
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mrkgnao: Thank you. I don't oppose steam, now that I have realised that it likely has many more DRM-free/client-free games than any other store, including GOG.

I don't think steam or humble are better than GOG, nor worse, but at least they are much cheaper (and steam has the benefit of also being more up to date, on average).
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dtgreene: The problem is that Steam explicitly encourages and provides DRM, so even if you buy a game that happens to not be infected with it, a portion of what you pay goes toward the development of DRM.

Furthermore, there's the issue that Steam doesn't make it clear which games are DRM-encumbered and which are not, and further there's no guarantee that DRM won't be added in an update.
I completely agree.

Similarly, the problem is that GOG clearly encourages DRM (e.g. CP2077) and does not make it clear which games have it (e.g. Absolver) and which don't. Furthermore, there's no guarantee that DRM won't be added in an update (e.g. NMS, since removed).

Obviously, the proportions are different between GOG and Steam, but the principle is the same.
Posted July 03, 2021
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mrkgnao: Obviously, the proportions are different between GOG and Steam, but the principle is the same.
So, if you don't mind me asking, why would you say earlier that you "don't oppose" Steam when, evidently, you do oppose GOG to the point of boycotting, if the principle is the same? Isn't the issue of DRM more important than the number of DRM-free games or the cheapness/up-to-dateness of games? To which, if so, it would make sense to oppose both.
Posted July 03, 2021
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mrkgnao: Obviously, the proportions are different between GOG and Steam, but the principle is the same.
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rjbuffchix: So, if you don't mind me asking, why would you say earlier that you "don't oppose" Steam when, evidently, you do oppose GOG to the point of boycotting, if the principle is the same? Isn't the issue of DRM more important than the number of DRM-free games or the cheapness/up-to-dateness of games? To which, if so, it would make sense to oppose both.
It's quite simple. I care about GOG and I hope it improves its act, so it is indeed again different from the competition, which is why I boycott it. I don't care a bit about all the other stores, including steam.

Even though this has been stated repeatedly, I will say it again: boycotting is not punishing. It is a legitimate way for customers to encourage a store to change and improve. You don't boycott something you don't care about.

If GOG implements the one change I am interested in (adding an indication which games require online presence or galaxy for any single player elements), I will gladly return to buying here.
Post edited July 08, 2021 by mrkgnao
Posted July 03, 2021
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Zegpi: I come back here every once in a while with the hope that GOG would have rescinded their censorious spur, but alas, no luck.
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tfishell: it's already been somewhat discussed but you're gonna have to try for the "long haul". and if you're boycotting until Devotion is released here (relating to "censorious"), I doubt that's ever gonna happen at this point (not that I don't want the game here of course).

The good news is, just FYI, you can buy Devotion on Red Candle Games' own store, and apparently Zoom Platform may still accept the game.
Yeah, I kinda knew this was going to be a long-time thing. I just find myself visiting gog less and less everyday. Eventually I'll just stop coming, I guess.
Posted July 03, 2021
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rjbuffchix: So, if you don't mind me asking, why would you say earlier that you "don't oppose" Steam when, evidently, you do oppose GOG to the point of boycotting, if the principle is the same? Isn't the issue of DRM more important than the number of DRM-free games or the cheapness/up-to-dateness of games? To which, if so, it would make sense to oppose both.
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mrkgnao: It's quite simple. I care about GOG and I hope it improves its act, so it is indeed different from the competition, which is why I boycott it. I don't care a bit about all the other stores, including steam.

Even though this has been stated repeatedly, I will say it again: boycotting is not punishing. It is a legitimate way for customers to encourage a store to change and improve. You don't boycott something you don't care about.

If GOG implements the one change I am interested in (adding an indication which games require online presence or galaxy for any single player elements), I will gladly return to buying here.
That makes sense; thanks for helping me understand. I agree that boycotting is not punishing; though for me I would say viewing Steam in terms of a boycott does make sense. I don't care about them specifically per se, but I do care about DRM-free gaming; they have been the catalyst for the DRMification of gaming. Though I suppose there is no hope for them to improve, in my opinion at least, while there is hope for GOG to improve. I hope GOG implements the change you suggested, though honestly at this point I trust the users in the various forum topics to be the ones to call out DRM bs more than I trust GOG to do so.
Posted July 03, 2021
low rated
Nope.
Posted July 04, 2021
low rated
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mrkgnao: It's quite simple. I care about GOG and I hope it improves its act, so it is indeed different from the competition, which is why I boycott it. I don't care a bit about all the other stores, including steam.

Even though this has been stated repeatedly, I will say it again: boycotting is not punishing. It is a legitimate way for customers to encourage a store to change and improve. You don't boycott something you don't care about.

If GOG implements the one change I am interested in (adding an indication which games require online presence or galaxy for any single player elements), I will gladly return to buying here.
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rjbuffchix: That makes sense; thanks for helping me understand. I agree that boycotting is not punishing; though for me I would say viewing Steam in terms of a boycott does make sense. I don't care about them specifically per se, but I do care about DRM-free gaming; they have been the catalyst for the DRMification of gaming. Though I suppose there is no hope for them to improve, in my opinion at least, while there is hope for GOG to improve. I hope GOG implements the change you suggested, though honestly at this point I trust the users in the various forum topics to be the ones to call out DRM bs more than I trust GOG to do so.
Yes. You are probably right about users being a more dependable source of information than GOG.

I, myself, am not strongly opposed to DRM. I will not cry if GOG decides to sell full-DRM games, as long as they identify them. The reasons I joined GOG were never related to DRM --- what I cared about were things like complete editions, flat pricing, games that work on my OS --- things of the past.
Posted July 04, 2021
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying it's a good thing that GOG's refusal to apologize and be transparent and make things right (i.e. unbanning Devotion from GOG) has "succeeded", but I'm just stating what is the unfortunate reality.

This also sets a disturbing precedent for all future scandals that GOG will be involved with, since their bosses have now learned that the strategy to say and do nothing until the scandal blows over is a successful one that will allow them to "win" and never need to worry about being held accountable for any future nefarious actions or inactions on their parts.
One of the things which is most dangerous to the bosses is the financial/shareholder side. And neither former nor current shareholders have already forgotten CDPs 2020 mishaps. While they may not care about the same things as the people in this thread - I dont think the bosses have learned that they cant be held accountable.

Lawsuit (due to management presumably deceiving investors) progressing:
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/cdpr_faces_4_lawsuits_from_investors

CDP appears to have/get new institutional investors who want personal consequence/s for the mishaps. Note that my understanding is that those new investor/s are only in now because the share price did go down so much. And it did go down probably at least in part due to the screwups. So screwups may get 'punished' after all.
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/cd_projekt_investors_calling_to_kick_out_cdpr_executives
Post edited July 04, 2021 by Zrevnur
Posted July 04, 2021
Nope.

GOG is still my platform of choice so no boycott from me. I appreciate their vision.

I will say I agree with the complaints about lack of communication and the slow movement away from what made them interesting in the first place.

Time will tell if they stay the course or attempt to right the ship. For now, they have my business.
Posted July 04, 2021
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Einzelgamer: I appreciate their vision.
Huh?
Posted July 04, 2021
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Einzelgamer: I appreciate their vision.
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Breja: Huh?
To have a DRM free store founded on the love for good old games.
Post edited July 04, 2021 by Einzelgamer
Posted July 05, 2021
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Time4Tea: I value your comments, but I don't agree with the negative viewpoint. I think it's difficult to impossible to know what impact the boycott is having on GOG's sales figures or decision-making. Regarding sales, even if there is evidence that sales haven't dipped, the past year and a half have been heavily skewed by COVID and so can't really be considered 'typical'.
Much more impact than COVID probably had CP2077 - Cyberpunk distorts the numbers very much. Notable though is that GOG is now (Q1 2021) making losses nonetheless.

All numbers I extracted are in 'thousand PLN' ~= 260 USD.

About Q1 2021 sales: Page 28 https://www.cdprojekt.com/en/wp-content/uploads-en/2021/05/consolidated-financial-statement-of-cd-projekt-capital-group-for-q1-2021.pdf
Q1 2021 sales (53 835) are somewhat up over Q1 2020 (48 993) - not surprising due to the reasons mentioned but GOG is making losses now: Before-tax GOG made 2 443 profit in Q1 2020 vs a loss of 2 165 in Q1 2021.

Q1 2021 Sales are down a lot vs Q4 2020 obviously though:
Q1 2021: 53835 (Cyberpunk still high GOG popularity?, Corona)
Q4 2020: 193454 (Cyberpunk start, Xmas, Corona)

Sources: Unfortunately I couldnt find a Q4 2020 report so I used 2020 full - H1 & Q3:
https://www.cdprojekt.com/en/wp-content/uploads-en/2021/04/consolidated-financial-statement-of-the-cd-projekt-group-for-2020.pdf (page 30)
https://www.cdprojekt.com/en/wp-content/uploads-en/2020/09/consolidated-financial-statement-of-the-cd-projekt-group-for-h1-2020.pdf (page 21)
https://www.cdprojekt.com/en/wp-content/uploads-en/2020/11/consolidated-financial-statement-of-cd-projekt-group-for-q3-2020.pdf (page 27)

Overall my impression is that CDPR and GOG may have overinvested before CP2077 release. They probably expected higher CP2077 sales based on the high number of preorders.
Post edited July 05, 2021 by Zrevnur
Posted July 05, 2021
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Einzelgamer: Nope.

GOG is still my platform of choice so no boycott from me. I appreciate their vision.
The problem is, they don't appreciate their 'vision' themselves anymore. Or in other words, they abandoned it. They sell DRM-ed games now and 'Good Old Games' has been a thing of the past longer than it had been a thing.
So if DRM-free is important to you, you might want to encourage GOG to return to their former principles.
Posted July 05, 2021
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Breja: Huh?
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Einzelgamer: To have a DRM free store founded on the love for good old games.
That was before they became GOG and still went by the title Good Old Games.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionBoycotting DRM and Game Censorship on GOG, 2021-2022(5216 posts) (5216 posts) 
(5216 posts)