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Lifthrasil: I just tested. I can download games from itch.io without providing my physical address - or anything apart from my login.
Download yes, buy no.
You're located in Germany right now, right? Just try to buy anything that costs actual money. You'll get to choose between paypal and credit card and once you hit either you'll be greeted with this.
It's not a payment issue, it's an EU issue. Americans (and probably anyone from a non-EU country) don't have to put up with this bullshit.
Attachments:
itch.jpg (53 Kb)
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qwixter: Now that this is at post 2400 or so, at some point during a "boycott" don't you actually have to leave and move on?
Did you even read the OP? Quoting:

For me to make any purchases on GOG this year, #1 needs to happen and at least a couple of the others. I.e. I want to see clear signs of a change in trajectory of the site, away from it's current misguided direction towards being a weak Steam competitor and back towards the principles it was founded on. I had been planning to spend $150-200 on GOG this year, but instead I will be spending that at Zoom Platform, to help build up a viable DRM-free alternative store.
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qwixter: The information about record sales during the boycott must sting a little bit. Kind of funny reading back through the post at any glimmer of hope that gog is doing poorly.
Which 'record sales' are you referring to?

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BreOl72: Doesn't the mere activity called "boycott" imply that people taking part in said activity hope to financially hurt the very business, which they boycott? (fun fact: people boycotting a business want that business to "do poorly" to reach their boycott goals)
While there inevitably is a (small here with ~100 people) financial effect on the company: Based on reading this thread my impression is that the intent ('hope') of the boycotters is different for different boycotters and that the positive oriented ones are either the majority or at least more vocal in this thread.
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Lifthrasil: I just tested. I can download games from itch.io without providing my physical address - or anything apart from my login.
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fronzelneekburm: Download yes, buy no.
You're located in Germany right now, right? Just try to buy anything that costs actual money. You'll get to choose between paypal and credit card and once you hit either you'll be greeted with this.
It's not a payment issue, it's an EU issue. Americans (and probably anyone from a non-EU country) don't have to put up with this bullshit.
Drat. You're right. Fine, not buying from itch anymore. But thanks for the hint that with the IP from another country this can be circumvented.
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BreOl72: I, on the other hand, am saying, that if you partake in a boycott against a business, it is very obvious that you hope for that business to do poorly - else your boycott is nothing but a waste of time.
Whether its a 'waste of time' is entirely subjective. A boycott can be beneficial (to the objectives of the boycotters) even without achieving any of the direct objectives. Just look at human history - didnt many big changes come even if the initial attempts were entirely unsuccessful?

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BreOl72: See - the effect you wish to achieve with any boycott against a business, is to hurt that business financially, so that they "learn from their errors" and steer back to the course, that the boycotting group deems the "correct course".

Therefore it's very funny to read (either in this thread, or elsewhere) from people admitting that they are boycotting GOG, but with in the same breath claim, that they don't want to harm GOG. ;)
I dont see a contradiction. If for example a boycotter believes that GOG will financially fail in the long term if they dont stay distinct from Steam then that is compatible with them not wanting to harm GOG.

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HappyPunkPotato: They could be doing it in the hope of drawing gog's attention to the issues without wanting to harm the business
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BreOl72: Sure. There's one small problem though: in order to draw GOG's attention to the boycott, the boycott has to show consequences.
Consequences of a boycott against a business are always financially.
Said financial consequences are always of the harming sort.
Thus: to boycott a business means to harm that business. Period.
Even if: That doesnt mean they want to harm that business.
And the drawing attention: I do believe the attention this thread draws is far greater than the attention the financial impact of those ~100 boycotters draws.
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BreOl72: I, on the other hand, am saying, that if you partake in a boycott against a business, it is very obvious that you hope for that business to do poorly - else your boycott is nothing but a waste of time.
Weird. I recall several protests in history and the goal was always to get the protestor's voice heard, not to exercise petty vengeance towards anyone.
I don't want GOG to do poorly. Quite the contrary, actually. Otherwise I wouldn't have bought 800+ games on this platform.
What I want is them to stick to their core values, which they have been slowly but constantly backing away from, in the last few years.
And I cannot approve of a company that presents itself as consumer friendly and then retires a game that consumers want from sales for political reasons. That's unfair and unethical.
Maybe you would accept to buy from a store owned by a guy who accepts to bully someone because a criminal convinces him to do it. I wouldn't. Would that mean the store will go out of business? I doubt it. But maybe if I stop buying and I voice why to the owner, he may at least ponder on the fact that what he made is morally questionable. Or maybe he won't, but I'll feel more confortable with myself showing my discontempt.

The ironic thing, to me, is that if a large amount of customers would do that, the company would be basically forced to address the issue. Which means that if GOG doesn't care about it, it's basically because most people here don't give a damn about an antidemocratic regime imposing to a private company in another country to deny the use of their platform to someone because they don't like the fact those people are critical towards them.
I guess they just think it's not their problem.
I sincerely hope those people will never face a similar situation, in which an authority makes them wrong just because they can, and people who may help don't care.
Post edited May 26, 2021 by Shendue
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BreOl72: Therefore it's very funny to read (either in this thread, or elsewhere) from people admitting that they are boycotting GOG, but with in the same breath claim, that they don't want to harm GOG. ;)
(this is to YOU and to EVERYBODY who brings this "by changing your spending habits here you are HURTING this platform")

How about:
"We don't want to finance company that started doing things we don't agree with"?
Also, "hurting financially"?
Our money isn't alimony and GOG isn't some sort of our abandoned kid.
"Hurt financially" means forfeiting giving money someone SHOULD get, the money they are in some way entitled to.
In WHAT WAY is GOG entitled to our money in your opinion?
We aren't investors having stakes in said company (I guess majority of us anyway, tho I can speak mostly for myself).
We aren't some parent / investment-company saying "oh, you acted badly so you won't get your chump change this month that we PROMISED you".
We are CUSTOMERS.
GOG is in NO WAY entitled to our money.
We are not OBLIGATED to spend money here.
There is no "we SHOULD be giving them money"!

GOG getting money from us is their PRIVILAGE, not anything they are ENTITLED to have.
You are making it sound like spending money here is THE neutral state whereas not doing so is "negative behaviour" / "hurting them financially".
NO.
NOT spending money is neutral state. While spending money here is a form of SUPPORTING this platform.
This is a STORE, a privately own BUSINESS *fOunded* NOT from the money we spend here!
THAT, is a STORE, (kudos to anyone recognising a certain meme here) NOT Patreon(*TM) nor crowdfunding platform!

As a customer you can have most fundamentally 2 types of spend on a platform / marketplace (be it digital or physical, doesn't matter):
1.Things you buy because you want / need - purchases for (yours truly or someone elses [for example giftee of yours]) personal gain
2.Things you DON'T actually need but you want to support the underlying merchant - this is a sort of investment in PLATFORM TRUST. But this isn't just one sided - you don't just trust the platform to give them more money than they otherwise need, no - you trust the merchant / platform that they will SPEND THAT MONEY WISELY.
You don't do the 2nd bit for a company that appears shady to you.
You don't support low standards convenience store like that.
You just don't.

The cold calculation is simple here:
You join a merchant's territory.
You obtain a product.
Some time passes, maybe you obtained some more products, you seem to like the merchant.
You feel like you want the merchant to SUCCEED and DO BETTER therefore you decide to dump into it MORE MONEY THAN YOU OTHERWISE NORMALLY WOULD for the sake of just satisfying your own desires / needs.

At some point or another the merchant starts doing things you don't agree with.
Remeber:
You are not his BANK.
You are not his INVESTOR.
You are not his FOUNDER.
Your income is NOT his ORIGINAL financing source, it's merely INCOME for possible EXPANSION of services in his business.
The part of strategic funding ISN'T your money. You don't prepay for a product and wait for it to be brought to you.
You don't walk into a convenience store with a bill in your hand to buy a sack of tomatoes only for the seller to get your pennies and tell you to wait a week until he outsources it.
THIS isn't this kind of business estabilishment.
The products are already on the shelves.
You walk into the convenience store with a bill in your hand, you get to an industrial refrigerator, grab a cup of instant noodles, go to a cashier, tell employee "NO, I DON'T want the plastic bag" while listening to some profoundly bizzare vegetable song, you pay, and OFF you go, you're OUT.
Ergo: you get in, the product is ALREADY THERE, you pay, you're OUT.
You are not paying the merchant to get THAT VERY STOCK you went to buy. THAT was *already paid for* by someone ELSE THAN YOU.

The store already made their own decision to buy certain amount of stock and if you don't buy there you don't "HURT" the store. If anything you can support it by buying. But by not buying you are just neutral bystander and have NOTHING to do with said store's financial / stock decisions.

Do you think this is so OUTRAGEOUSLY UNJUSTIFIED to back off from supporting somebody / business that started to go downhill and now does things you don't personally agree with?
"Oh this convenience store has lowered standards and they are now selling expired products, I don't agree with that but I will continue buying here because I am a devoted fan of this shop"?
People who TRULY CARE are usually also the ones that see the ENTIRE picture and just just what the place does well.
Those are not BLINDLY LOYAL nor the kind to let just ANY shit slide.

THIS isn't proxy seller. This is no dropshipping service either.
This is a STORE that already obtained the products and would have them regardless if we would pay or not.
In fact the very fact of this here place being fully DIGITAL-only store makes it even more special.
See, this here isn't like with a convenience store where more income allows merchant to buy more stock and if they want to reduce their risk they can reduce their stock delivery amount.
GOG has to pay for their infrastructure EITHER WAY regardless if ANYONE buys ANYTHING. It's a PREPAY. And that money isn't coming from US.
WE are not source of THIS part of their finances.

In fact buying here, mere acting of buying a product and having it available for you to download at ANY GIVEN TIME from ANY PLACE is costing GOG additional BANDWIDTH as well as various costs of POSSIBLE (for you to be ABLE to do that at ANY time) infrastructure additional load.
Even merely having more DEMOS on your account already costs them MORE in POSSIBLE costs.
If 1000 people would decide to download one same game demo all at once it would cost GOG MONEY even tho they got NO MONEY FROM *US* for the product.
And that's ok. Because SOMEONE ELSE THAN US already paid for the possibility, and storage of said demo on GOG's infrastructure.
It's:
A.Investors
B.Mother company original funding source
And THIS has NOTHING to do with OUR spending.
In fact one could argue that NOBODY REALLY KNOWS how much money stays within GOG and how much leaves to the mother company CDPR Group.
Financial documentation that is PUBLIC isn't very clear on the matter.
For all I know CDPR Group could for example get 100% cut of CDPR owned games sold on GOG with GOG itself getting none.
The "100% of your money stays within CDPR Group" may in fact be a very clever trick to underfinance GOG store.
But that's just a theory.
With no proof just like there is no proof what real exact cut GOG itself gets from sales of CDPR produced games.

WE are NOT the ones financing this platform. Regardless if people reduce their spend here this company stays afloat. It is infact under an umbrella mother corp and gets money from there regardless.
The ORIGINAL FUNDING SOURCE is NOT US!
It's investors.
We are not investors.
We are in no way OBLIGATED to spend money here.
It's a privilage for GOG to get our money, NOT something to take for GRANTED.
Anyone implying we are HURTING this company by boycotting things we don't agree with, trying not to add into financial pile for possible expansion of things we don't agree with, is in incredibly deep DENIAL or a total misguided IGNORANT.

We are not charity either.
This is business.
We are not obligated to support this platform if we no longer like what it is doing.
We (at least majority, tho again, I can only really speak for myself) are not some blind fanboys who are going to put up with just about ANYTHING while saying "you are hurting me but I love you so here's your darn coins" with teary eyes.
NO.
I don't like where this company is headed.
I don't like how it keeps tuning their augmented eyes * to not see the problems NOR community feedback. (* is a certain callback to my certain sarcastic remark about a certain thing in regards to CP2077 from another thread from several months ago)
I refuse to put up with it. Therefore I reduced my spend to a rock bottom none, it doesn't mean I will spend NOTHING here EVER, it means I no longer see ANY POINT in it UNTIL they fix their mistakes, THEN I may reconsider.
In fact I haven't bought here anything in 387 days.
Like I said before, I don't boycott BECAUSE OF this thread.
And anybody saying to my face that I "hurt" this company by doing this would get a sarcastic smirk and a "Kawaisō" type of laugh from me.

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BreOl72: to boycott a business means to harm that business. Period.
To boycott means to try to bring the boycotted entity to notice and fix their mistakes. Period.
If said entity is stubborn and refuses then they won't get any more support in whatever originally carried out form by the boycotting personas.
SUPPORT isn't the "default". DOING NOTHING is THE default.
Therefore:
buying == supporting
but, not buying =/= hurting.

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BreOl72: See - people have to learn that they can't have their cake AND eat it.
That's right. GOG cannot both get our money and pull this shady crap at the same time. One or the other.
That's why people boycott. Because they are not hypocrites who would support something they won't agree with.
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BreOl72: And in what way exactly is "not wanting to spend any more money here [on GOG]" not harming GOG financially?

See - people have to learn that they can't have their cake AND eat it.

You either boycott GOG - thus harming it financially in the process, or you don't harm them financially, but then you aren't boycotting them, also.

There's no "I can have it both ways" - way, when it comes to boycotts.
Feel free to explain to me how GOG is entitled to my money without me getting services rendered. I'm not one of the people boycotting GOG, just came in here to see what's going on and why the topic's still so active, but I can't even fathom taking your position, myself. I'm buying more games from dlsite, and tha doesn't harm gog, because GOG isn't entitled to my shopping preference.
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B1tF1ghter: In fact one could argue that NOBODY REALLY KNOWS how much money stays within GOG and how much leaves to the mother company CDPR Group.
Financial documentation that is PUBLIC isn't very clear on the matter.
For all I know CDPR Group could for example get 100% cut of CDPR owned games sold on GOG with GOG itself getting none.
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B1tF1ghter: With no proof just like there is no proof what real exact cut GOG itself gets from sales of CDPR produced games.
Reporting-wise the cut GOG gets is clear: GOG gets 30%. This can be deduced from the numbers. There is even a statement in one report (no link handy) explaining that they are reporting GOG sales of CDPR games with market consistent cuts. My impression was that this is due to regulation requiring them to do that.
How much money stays with GOG: GOG expenses and GOG sales can be seen in the reports so from reporting POV this is also sort of clear.
How much money is effectively used for GOG-purposes however is another matter. This is especially unclear as one of the stated purposes of GOG is supporting CDPR games. So unless this could be properly disentangled from other Galaxy development its really impossible to say from the outside. There may be parts in reporting dealing with that but realistically my expectation is that this is the most "flexible" part.

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B1tF1ghter: The "100% of your money stays within CDPR Group" may in fact be a very clever trick to underfinance GOG store.
But that's just a theory.
As I understand this it just means 100% go to the combination of CDPR & GOG. The way I see it it isnt even intended to mean anything else. Whether GOG gets 100% of that or 0% of that - this is true in either case as long as CDPR gets the rest. (But obviously this 100% isnt true if VAT is subtracted first.)
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BreOl72: I, on the other hand, am saying, that if you partake in a boycott against a business, it is very obvious that you hope for that business to do poorly - else your boycott is nothing but a waste of time.
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mrkgnao: I disagree. Regardless of whether GOG listens or not to the boycotters (they most likely will not) and regardless of whether the boycott has any noticeable effect on GOG's bottom line (if most likely will not), the boycott is in no way a waste of time for me.

1) It allows me to feel good with myself for not buying at a place that I feel has been mistreating a fair number of its customers (myself included) for a long time.
2) It saves me money which I may or may not spend in other video game stores.

I still hope GOG gets "better" and will do my bit to help it happen, but I am no longer willing to waste my money while waiting.
This.
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mrkgnao: I disagree. Regardless of whether GOG listens or not to the boycotters (they most likely will not) and regardless of whether the boycott has any noticeable effect on GOG's bottom line (if most likely will not), the boycott is in no way a waste of time for me.

1) It allows me to feel good with myself for not buying at a place that I feel has been mistreating a fair number of its customers (myself included) for a long time.
2) It saves me money which I may or may not spend in other video game stores.

I still hope GOG gets "better" and will do my bit to help it happen, but I am no longer willing to waste my money while waiting.
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viperfdl: This.
yep , while boycott will never achieve its primary goal , it still can be good for some
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qwixter: You summarized it correctly, and I am not just "kinda correct" :)
You're not correct at all, you're splitting hairs about semantics to avoid adressing the actual substance of the post when what I meant was clearly obvious to anyone who can pick up on sarcasm. So hooray for you indeed.
If you added in your demands that GOG should fix many of the old games they sell to properly work in Windows or have original files for their DOS games, I would be interested.
high rated
I read a lot of smart posts, full of theories and incredible business models.

For me the boycott comes from far away and have simple reasons: reasons that GOG created by itself.
I'm quite of the few early customers, Not overly active on the forums. But a good buyer, I would say.
In the years, they betraied everything the setup for themselves.
One by one, GOG disappointed all its original promises.

From the purpose of the store (Good Old Games to just GOG... how stupid is that) to offline installer, fixed pricing, bonus contents for game and so on.
Additionally the quality of services is spiralling down with a subpar website. Crap forums. Crap new or old releases. Missing patches. DRM appearing in one form or the other. Pricing going up while I can see how in other stores prices are going down.

After 1200+ games bought on this store I would like the company to get a hold of itself and start operating as it was (is...) meant to be.
Restore some of the values lost along the road and make their word value something as things stands, whatever they say, is obviously "a best effort".
Post edited May 26, 2021 by OldOldGamer
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Narakir: If you added in your demands that GOG should fix many of the old games they sell to properly work in Windows or have original files for their DOS games, I would be interested.
Regardless of what Time4Tea answers, do know that the "demands" listed in the first post are just those of the OP. They are not meant to represent all the people boycotting in this thread. Different people who have joined this boycott did so for different reasons.
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qwixter: You summarized it correctly, and I am not just "kinda correct" :)
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Breja: You're not correct at all, you're splitting hairs about semantics to avoid adressing the actual substance of the post when what I meant was clearly obvious to anyone who can pick up on sarcasm. So hooray for you indeed.
Nice. The ol' "it was sarcasm" excuse.