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B1tF1ghter: You know what GOG cannot legally do?
Have a product card openly dismissing DRM presence in a game (not properly informing about it) while simulataneously advertising their platform (GOG's) as DRM-free (the ENTIRE platform).
Nitpick: The site/store is marked drm free atm, not 100% as they used to be. Drm free, by itself, could mean any percentage above 0.....not just 100.
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GamezRanker: I assume that it's more likely that GOG gives control of the pages(to a high or full degree, barring things that are illegal/would somehow affect gog's image/etc) to the rights holders as part of the partner negotiations/contract.

Might be...might be......of course I personally lean towards my guess above as being more plausible/likely.
(i.e. the rights holder controls the majority of the page content to some degree, and that GOG legally cannot change said content without their permission...barring certain exceptions)

Still, in the end, the main thing is that there are many things about GOG(company/site) that need or could use some improvement....game card info/content being one of them.....i'm guessing on that much we can agree.
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B1tF1ghter: You know what GOG cannot legally do?
Have a product card openly dismissing DRM presence in a game (not properly informing about it) while simulataneously advertising their platform (GOG's) as DRM-free (the ENTIRE platform).

You, and many others may actually misunderstand what "publisher controlled product page" actually means.
I spoke many times to Valve directly (to people much higher than support, through emails) and sure, the platform gives a high level autonomy to publisher and it's publishers' responsibility to keep the page properly updated, but if there is something wrong and the publisher fails to correct it the platform can and very well should step up and do so themselves, heck, they often have to based on legal footing.
Because ultimately the underlying platform belongs to a company and NOT publisher given autonomy and it's THE PUBLISHER that has to abide to PLATFORM'S rules and NOT vice versa.

There is a sharp difference between letting someone have autonomy versus letting just about any shit fly "as long as it's not illegal" (btw, false advertising, such as failing to inform about presence of DRM, IS ILLEGAL).

GOG is evidently lenient and negligent in regards to enforcing own policies on publishers in all sorts of ways, including product pages.
And it doesn't help that GOG apparently also lacks standards.

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Lodium: Your anticheat measure argument doesnt hold up
If players want to cheat or hack they will do it¨
no matter if the hosted game have anticheat measures or not
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B1tF1ghter: Actually mine DOES hold up, yet you keep not understanding it and instead keep clinging to your sinking ship instead.

It's not about if players DESIRE to cheat or not.
It's entirely about if you LET them BY DEFAULT.
Which would be entirely the case for a type of netcode that is flawed by design and is build in a way lacking proper authorisation of data like in the concept you so desperately desire.

If you so pretenciously believe in general public's average innocence then you are free to test people's goodwill.
Run an experiment.
Set up a honeypot on DMZ in your home network and see what happens. Make it specificly in a manner informing everybody visiting that you want them to be nice and all and not hack it.
Oh, wait, that would actually topple your point so you would likely not have the guts to do that.

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Lodium: Like : we cant make our games drm free because they are all pirates annyway even if proven that copy protected games is just as much pirated
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B1tF1ghter: Don't mix up DRM and anti-cheat.
Anti-cheat is not DRM by itself.
Those are 2 unrelated concepts.

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Lodium: If youre gonna use the router argument my pc or whaver (...) be sure to apply it to the so called secured anti cheat legit multiplayer measures
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B1tF1ghter: Router point.
You misunderstood it completely.
That example DOESN'T apply to heavily fortified anit-cheats as most routers have beyond satiricly shit security by default.

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Lodium: Third
You also missing the point that somone have to host the damn game
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B1tF1ghter: Except I never went against specificly the "host" part. The game can be P2P no problem.
I specificly went against your desire to have no control whatsoever of ANY kind, no preventions of ANYTHING, not preventing modding, ALL things in ANY multiplayer participant's control.
(your point's existence proven by your words that you want to be able to do ANYTHING without anybody preventing you from doing LITERALLY ANYTHING and if there would be ANY preventions you call it "DRM")
Also, I never said host with proper central authority would be 100% shit proof.
I am specificly saying that what you desire (a system with no central verification of certain data such as stats or mods or cheat detection [wall-hack can be seen as mod by many btw] by for example "host") is basically 0% proof BY DESIGN.
And any proofing and security in your desired system ENTIRELY stands on top of HOPING for end-user goodwill.

Unfortunatelly it's YOU that doesn't understand the points.
I carefully read what you're saying and check that against the reality.
Whereas YOU casually dismiss what I'm saying and instead resort to trying to accuse me of trolling.
The conversation is going nowhere this way, but if that's what you desire...

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Lodium: And the host isnt a super human either
he/she has to sleep, shit, eat or work like the rest of us and during this downtime shit can and will happen especially if the host is hosting a game thats hes planning keep going for more than a day
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B1tF1ghter: The host isn't a human (just a server) and nobody cheat detects by themselves in real time.
There are these things called "scripting", "autoadmin" and such.

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Lodium: And no thank you
in not going to risk getting banned by posting an how to do hack tututorital of old methods
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B1tF1ghter: Okay?
And did I ask you?
Did ANYBODY ask you for that matter?
Because you act like somebody did with your "and no thank you" while I for certain did not and I don't see anyone who did unless I'm missing something.
Also, you keep talking to me about things that I DO know and knew for LONG, you say so in a way like you're some "know-it-all" that talks to some "idiot" and I see such behaviours as one of the most aggravating existing.

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Lodium: It is possible to hack any pc on a local Area Network(LAN). to make an example
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B1tF1ghter: Any? As in ALL? Not neccesarily. Tho that still depends what you mean by hack and if you mean REMOTE by it. (which you clearly did not specify)
Major amount? Yes.
How? There is like a billion of books on network IT sec. I don't feel like writing one in this forum thread.
But it's a fact that majority (basically almost all private ones at least) of network infrastructure is attrociously unsecure on default settings. And most private users leave those default settings. And even if you go pretty far into the settings most home routers still expose telnet or tftp, often on the wan side too.
There is quite an attack surface on average home network.
I will not go into details but it's sarcasticly easy to prove.

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Lodium: are you gonna keep trolling?

Youre kinda doing it
against the other in the trhead as well
especially when theres opinions that do not align closly with yours
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B1tF1ghter: I counted more than 3 people (me, you, and "the other person") in this thread so I don't even remotely know who you are even implying.
I really couldn't care less if someone's opinion aligns with mine.
I personally respect others' right to have a different opinion than mine and I'm okay with it.
What I'm not okay with is letting some obvious bullshit slide so when I see it, while knowing someone is wrong, I may choose to intercept and try to correct that someone.
Sometimes I succeed.
Sometimes I fail.
But ultimately it has NOTHING to do with someone's alignment of their opinion with mine or lackthereof.
So take your false accusations and shove them back where they came from.

-----
On a side note:
Oh, I see, so the bots were asleep / busy. That's interesting.
I think at this point I have pretty solid grip who is targeted for auto-downvote (scripted) versus who is downvoted manually.
There is no such thing as a 100 % foolproff connection
Not even the most secure router is foolprof
or youre guessing that tthe average user are some kinda tech giz that can prevent it
Obvious troll is gonna keep trolling i guess
Not interested in keeping the discussion going
Unless you have editet your earlier posts
i think we all know who is is posting what
Its also clear that you are a steam advocate
you are admitting it yourself by bragging of speaking to the upper managment at Valve
so we know where we got you know
Post edited March 18, 2021 by Lodium
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Elmofongo: Honestly this discussion is becoming more and more complicated to even read anymore. I mean the post above me is like an unfocused movie script.
For once I agree. I entirely gave up on even trying to follow what they're on about days ago.
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Lodium: Obvious troll is gonna keep trolling i guess
You don't have to share your self reflection with us.

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Lodium: i think we all know who is is posting what
I don't entirely know what you are prying at here but whatever.

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Lodium: Its also clear that you are a steam advocate
Proof being? What? In-depth knowledge about Steam?
Using facts and knowledge instead of generalized hate-speech and bias?

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Lodium: you are admitting it yourself buy bragging speaking to the upper managment at steam
Never in any of my posts in this thread have I BRAGGED about it.
I merely stated I contacted Valve more directly.
And that by itself is not bragging.
If anything it shows my concern for actions of the platform and trailed involvment in trying to make them correct course on some things.
Your false accusations are ungrown and pathetic.

In similar fashion I have contacted GOG blues trying to make them correct course, with varying results (GOG is rather stubborn).

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Lodium: so we know where we got you know
I'm sorry. I don't speak engrish.
If you bother to speak your non-native language please at least make sure your writing is SOMEWHAT understandable before you post it.
Also, I don't think you should try to speak like you represent more than just your very own self.
So unless it's more than 1 in yourself you should stop using "we" when you speak.

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Elmofongo: Honestly this discussion is becoming more and more complicated to even read anymore. I mean the post above me is like an unfocused movie script.
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Breja: For once I agree. I entirely gave up on even trying to follow what they're on about days ago.
I apologize if I personally inconvenienced you :/
But I feel obliged to respond if someone falsely accuses me.
I'm also not the kind to let some obvious bullshit slide so I tend to respond when I see it.
Tho I cannot be held responsible for the actions of the other party.

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B1tF1ghter: You know what GOG cannot legally do?
Have a product card openly dismissing DRM presence in a game (not properly informing about it) while simulataneously advertising their platform (GOG's) as DRM-free (the ENTIRE platform).
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GamezRanker: Nitpick: The site/store is marked drm free atm, not 100% as they used to be. Drm free, by itself, could mean any percentage above 0.....not just 100.
I am aware of that. And your nitpick is somewhat invalid as I, in this very thread, said AT LEAST ONCE that it USED TO be "100%" but then they apparently REMOVED IT silently.
Nontheless, to a purchase contract applies all marketing (thus consequences of for example "100%" being present at the time) and TOS present AT THAT TIME and any later changes to them don't apply to past purchases.
And I'm somewhat sure GOG had the 100% and according TOS sections when there were things like NMS debacle already live.

I had a quick re-read of TOS, and frankly it's hard to find any mentions of "ownership" in it at all at this point.
Iirc the TOS sounded differently some time ago.
The most significant related section I could find was 11.1 b, which honestly sounds imo like an attempt at excusing usage of any possible DRM.

On a side note, as I was skimming through GOG TOS (yet again, as I have read it several times, I just had to refresh some info) I noticed how severely unprofessional language it uses throughout (examples being 6.1 start, as well as "kids - your parent" blah blah section).
It's also inconsistent at times, including level of professionalism (or lackthereof) of used language.
Considering some inconsistency I have some concerns over legality of this TOS.
It's also improperly formatted at times, see 4.3 .
Some things said in the TOS also conflict with official statements of GOG personnel.
There are also logic mistakes, like repeated segments in lists, example see 11.1 e (cheats used twice in same list).
I also don't know how I'm supposed to interpret 21.6 (certain user here citing "human rights" and all could potentially be interested in this one).
Overall there is quite some BS in the TOS.
Combined with the very PRETENTIOUS cookies bar statement (I never understood their guts to go all "not that it changes anything but" BS - cookies and their usage change a lot - fundamentally everything) it sheds quite some light at GOG's pretentious attitude.
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Elmofongo: Honestly this discussion is becoming more and more complicated to even read anymore. I mean the post above me is like an unfocused movie script.
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Breja: For once I agree. I entirely gave up on even trying to follow what they're on about days ago.
Like are we still on topic? Or has this gone beyond what's going with GOG at this point?
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Breja: For once I agree. I entirely gave up on even trying to follow what they're on about days ago.
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Elmofongo: Like are we still on topic? Or has this gone beyond what's going with GOG at this point?
If you would actually read you would notice that things I am adressing currently are DRM, and someones personal definitions of DRM, which IS related to at least one of the points in OP of this boycott.
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Elmofongo: Like are we still on topic? Or has this gone beyond what's going with GOG at this point?
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B1tF1ghter: If you would actually read you would notice that things I am adressing currently are DRM, and someones personal definitions of DRM, which IS related to at least one of the points in OP of this boycott.
Now we are arguing definitions of what is DRM and what makes something DRM.

That is a massive rabbit whole to debate the definitions of something if its subjective.
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B1tF1ghter: If you would actually read you would notice that things I am adressing currently are DRM, and someones personal definitions of DRM, which IS related to at least one of the points in OP of this boycott.
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Elmofongo: Now we are arguing definitions of what is DRM and what makes something DRM.

That is a massive rabbit whole to debate the definitions of something if its subjective.
Subjective?
It's really not. It's just that some people use their own liberal definitions to excuse others' actions (say GOGs de facto DRMed CP2077 my rewards being excused by some people's personal definitions of DRM).
And unfortunatelly these people usually need long battling to make them shift their flawed way of thinking.

edit: corrected spelling mistake in one word (replaced s with d)
Post edited March 18, 2021 by B1tF1ghter
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Ya know, i'd like to see the thread get back to the topics at hand....preferably without so much focus on people trying to show how right/"right" they are over others.

"Yer wrong, i'm right!" "No, you're wrong and i'm right!"

It gets so tiring sometimes.
Post edited March 18, 2021 by GamezRanker
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GamezRanker: Ya know, i'd like to see the thread get back to the topics at hand....preferably without so much focus on people trying to show how right/"right" they are over others.

"Yer wrong, i'm right!" "No, you're wrong and i'm right!"

It gets so tiring sometimes.
Well
Time will tell if the boycott helped
allthough im a bit sympatic about it i dont really belive in a boycott since they seldom works out
Like i showed with the Cod boycott
and its not just that case either
I migth off course be wrong and people that have written in the wishlist actually mean what they say and as such the boycott will be effective
we wont know before some time has passed i guess.
Post edited March 18, 2021 by Lodium
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Lodium: Well
Time will tell if the boycott helped
allthough im a bit sympatic about it i dont really belive in a boycott since they seldom works out
Like i showed with the Cod boycott
and its not just that case either
I migth off course be wrong and people that have written in the wishlist actually mean what they say and as such the boycott will be effective
we wont know before some time has passed i guess.
I am also sympathetic and hope this boycott gets some positive change re: GOG.....still, I am guessing if something was going to happen, it would've likely happened by now.

Regardless, I will still continue to hold out some hope and wish for the best.
Post edited March 18, 2021 by GamezRanker
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GamezRanker: Ya know, i'd like to see the thread get back to the topics at hand....
Excuse me, this thread is not only about Devotion.
And I was clearly addressing one of the points of this boycott (DRM).

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GamezRanker: preferably without so much focus on people trying to show how right/"right" they are over others.

"Yer wrong, i'm right!" "No, you're wrong and i'm right!"

It gets so tiring sometimes.
There is only ONE ultimate truth.
It's not my problem that some people decide to negate reality and call people trolls when given proper argumentation for something.

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GamezRanker: I am guessing if something was going to happen, it would've likely happened by now.
Not every boycott is fast.

Btw, what are these "topics at hand" you are talking about?
Because for the most part throughout most pages people talk about Devotion or about how in their opinions "boycotts don't work".
It's mostly what is within this thread in the last many pages.
I apologize if you think it's rude to address different point from OP post (DRM, like I did).

Btw, I kept my responses least extensible possible (don't misunderstand, that doesn't mean they are short, it just means I intentionally drove them shorter). I am in no way responsible for the other person RAW QUOTING (and thus OBLITERATING pages' space NEEDLESSLY) as well as trying to pick a personal fight with me just because I was comprehensively overturning leaps in logic of that other person.
I have good intentions here. But I shall not be held responsible for actions of other parties.
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GamezRanker: Ya know, i'd like to see the thread get back to the topics at hand....
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B1tF1ghter: Excuse me, this thread is not only about Devotion.
And I was clearly addressing one of the points of this boycott (DRM).

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GamezRanker: preferably without so much focus on people trying to show how right/"right" they are over others.

"Yer wrong, i'm right!" "No, you're wrong and i'm right!"

It gets so tiring sometimes.
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B1tF1ghter: There is only ONE ultimate truth.
It's not my problem that some people decide to negate reality and call people trolls when given proper argumentation for something.

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GamezRanker: I am guessing if something was going to happen, it would've likely happened by now.
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B1tF1ghter: Not every boycott is fast.

Btw, what are these "topics at hand" you are talking about?
Because for the most part throughout most pages people talk about Devotion or about how in their opinions "boycotts don't work".
It's mostly what is within this thread in the last many pages.
I apologize if you think it's rude to address different point from OP post (DRM, like I did).

Btw, I kept my responses least extensible possible (don't misunderstand, that doesn't mean they are short, it just means I intentionally drove them shorter). I am in no way responsible for the other person RAW QUOTING (and thus OBLITERATING pages' space NEEDLESSLY) as well as trying to pick a personal fight with me just because I was comprehensively overturning leaps in logic of that other person.
I have good intentions here. But I shall not be held responsible for actions of other parties.
Actually
The op adresses a whole list of issues
not just DRM
and hes also asking on who is willing to join the boycott
so he coud write the names for those interested participating or those that were sympatic to the cause
but it has kinda gone in diffrent diirections
he didnt really ask people about opinions or questions regarding those issues
Post edited March 18, 2021 by Lodium
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B1tF1ghter: Excuse me, this thread is not only about Devotion.
And I was clearly addressing one of the points of this boycott (DRM).

There is only ONE ultimate truth.
It's not my problem that some people decide to negate reality and call people trolls when given proper argumentation for something.

Not every boycott is fast.

Btw, what are these "topics at hand" you are talking about?
Because for the most part throughout most pages people talk about Devotion or about how in their opinions "boycotts don't work".
It's mostly what is within this thread in the last many pages.
I apologize if you think it's rude to address different point from OP post (DRM, like I did).

Btw, I kept my responses least extensible possible (don't misunderstand, that doesn't mean they are short, it just means I intentionally drove them shorter). I am in no way responsible for the other person RAW QUOTING (and thus OBLITERATING pages' space NEEDLESSLY) as well as trying to pick a personal fight with me just because I was comprehensively overturning leaps in logic of that other person.
I have good intentions here. But I shall not be held responsible for actions of other parties.
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Lodium: Actually
The op adresses a whole list of issues
not just DRM
and hes also asking on who is willing to join the boycott and is also asking who are interested in joining the boycott
so he coud write the names for those interested participating or those that were sympatic to the cause
but it has kinda gone in diffrent diirections
he didnt really ask people about opinions or questions regarding those issues
Oh REALLY?
Gee, thanks, I "SURELY" did not know /s
. . .
Too bad you are NOT the OP, nor you set the rules here.

Dear OP
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Time4Tea: (stub)
if you have any issue with any of my posts from last several pages (since the conversation with Lodium started on my side) then please voice it.
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Lodium: Actually
The op adresses a whole list of issues
not just DRM
and hes also asking on who is willing to join the boycott and is also asking who are interested in joining the boycott
so he coud write the names for those interested participating or those that were sympatic to the cause
but it has kinda gone in diffrent diirections
he didnt really ask people about opinions or questions regarding those issues
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B1tF1ghter: Oh REALLY?
Gee, thanks, I "SURELY" did not know /s
. . .
Too bad you are NOT the OP, nor you set the rules here.

Dear OP
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Time4Tea: (stub)
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B1tF1ghter: if you have any issue with any of my posts from last several pages (since the conversation with Lodium started on my side) then please voice it.
I didnt say i was the OP
i just merly stated what i saw in the opening post
nothing more

Not really suprising that you want the the discussion now to be about my and your discussion earlier
Post edited March 18, 2021 by Lodium