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General discussionBoycotting DRM and Game Censorship on GOG, 2021-2022(5216 posts) (5216 posts) 
(5216 posts) 
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 17, 2021
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Lodium: Then why did you answer then ?
Seams kinda reduntant

And i didnt say that all multiplayer games shoud be the same either with or withouth cheating
Its up to the host of the game again as i said
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B1tF1ghter: It can be clearly gathered from your posts in this thread (at least from the last few pages) that you wish to have FULL control of EVERYTHING leaving basically NONE to the so called "host".
You want ultimate power to decide what you do with your ENTIRE game interaction in a de facto multiplayer scenario.
Which clearly means you don't want to be bound to ANY kind of externel control, that being for example central authority host-based stat checking. You just want it all.
And now you are saying "it's up to the host" "as I said".
Unfortunatelly for yourself you left clear evidence for your contradicting statements.

Why did I respond in the first place?
I will not answer that question.
But I can tell you why ultimately I will drop any attempts at fixing your misinterpretations.
Because I pick my cases and if I see one as no longer worthy, for example due to someone's extreme unwillingness to change as well as stubbornness, I can freely decide to drop said case.
If I start seeing something as a lost cause I may choose to no longer bother myself with it.

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Lodium: but nice try trolling
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B1tF1ghter: Well excuse me I have no start to your abilities in that matter.
To the point where I wasn't doing it at all as a matter of a fact.

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Lodium: And none your answers still doesnt explain the question i was asking
'so theres that
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B1tF1ghter: At this point I am getting confused as to what your motives are here.
Especially since at least some of your statements contradict each other.
I think you are intepeting it however you want
but you bragged about beeing intelligent so it shoudnt really matter if im not native in english and perhaps i have a bit difficulty explaining myself especially to somone that claims to be more intelligent than me
And didnt you say you didnt want to discuss this any more?

that was a quick bacpaddling

You see
Its not a contradiction
as long as i see all forms of multiplayer games as a form of drm no matter if they use the old methods of connectivity or the new ones with client or whatever
and if i do use them i then accept that fact that im no longer in control like im with a Singleplayer game and therfore per deffiniton is not Drm free as i see it.
The only diffrence is is in essence in who is in control
that is if i join as a guest
Youre also kinda give the impression that the early gamers that managed those networks themself always was in unison or something
And im not even talking about anti cheat measures
that in most cases overssed by a major company in a lot of cases nowadays because of sometimes the players themself cant agree what measeures shoud be in place
That doesnt mean there only exist chaos servers or anything like that in those intances where this isnt the case (where anticheat measerues arent in place)
People are diffrent
some migth join a honest Server where people are interested to have fair competition withouth cheating
that does not mean no one is able to ever cheat in that server by the way. There are plenty of people that have been banned or other stuff despite anticheat measures beeing in place.
some migth join a server where cheating is allowed because they themself think that its fun with mayham or chaos or they like cheats itself
and some players give a shit and try to hack the legit servers or whatever i shoud call them annyway
even with anticheat measures in place
The point is unless you give a shit and dont ask for permission or join a server where cheating is allowed
then in essence you dont have control as a guest
The host can boot you because he had a bad day even if you spent hours and days on a game
doesnt matter
With a singleplaayer game i dont have to accept that
since i then can save my progress in various ways
that was just one example

Though this is my opinion
others migh have others
or some migth think i have some points but disagree overall wich is fine
You migth continue to insult me
or doing other measures
or take the ball and have a serious debate

I coud even formulate my orginal question in another way if it helps you
Does the old methods take control away from the guest if he decides to join a hosted game
Yes
or no?
shoud be a simple question
Post edited March 17, 2021 by Lodium
Posted March 17, 2021
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Gersen: I just realize that having some dumb "bonus" being exclusive to some retailer / shop / preorder is nothing new, so having a bunch of optional cosmetic content requiring a connection / subscription is not the end of the world as long as the games themselves are DRM-free and said content is insignificant enough (i.e. cosmetic) then I am not going to lose my sleep over it no matter how dumb I find this kind of "exclusive" stuff to be and I would prefer if they were included in the installers.
It's nothing new in the game industry at large, that's true...however, for a store that is presumably supposed to be the haven of DRM-free, it shouldn't be happening here imo. If there is any place where this kind of stuff should be included in the offline "backup" installers, it's here on GOG. In fact, while I'm unable to recall the names, I'm pretty sure there are a few "AAA" games here where cosmetic bonus content is included in the offline installers, so there's really no excuse.

Also, as I have brought up previously and other users have pointed out, it does kind of grate when people say what does or doesn't count as content for us. You guys aren't the content gods that shape the narrative for us mere mortals. If a piece of game content is important to someone, and locked behind DRM, I would say that is an issue when the store is supposed to be selling DRM-free games. Granted I don't want the Galaxy t-shirt but some might :p

Before GOG apparently took down FCKDRM.com, the standard to be featured as a source of media on that site was to be 100% DRM-free. Not "100% DRM-free, but of course you understand if we cut content for preorders, provide bonuses for people who use our client, etc 'DRM-free' ".


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Gersen: If I had to guess I would suspect it's probably the rational Gog also uses to determine if a game qualify as being DRM-free or not. That's why they fix real DRM issues like the one on Escapist, Deus Ex, etc... but don't care about Dying Light weapon skins or X4 paint jobs.
This is a really interesting point you make, and we can see there is definitely a difference in the urgency of GOG responding to these issues (or not, in the cases of the "not big enough" issues to them).


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Gersen: Dude Gog had games using DRM for multiplayer at least for more than seven years before you joined (i.e. more than 11 years ago in total), so if you just discover that of if it just start causing you concerns you are a little late. If it's really indicative of Gog direction then it's something that have for more than a decade.
I am aware of GOG previously using DRMed multiplayer such as third party servers or individual keys (both of which I'm also against); however, GOG introducing their own proprietary client required for multiplayer is a distinct step on their end (which also pre-dated my arrival, not that this matters). While not ideal that GOG effectively fosters a DRMed environment where, for example, to play a Paradox game you have to go through Paradox...I would still say it's more concerning when GOG pushes their own DRM essentially.

I'm not sure if you've seen topics where I mentioned this, but since you mentioned my join date, I came to GOG after a decade and a half or so of completely giving up on PC gaming, specifically due to the Scheme DRM monopoly/monopsony. I want to buy games to "own" rather than rent, and Scheme essentially made this impossible for PC gaming at large. I was loosely aware of GOG's existence but it took noticing Fallout: New Vegas here for me to take the plunge, after which I bought many more games, old-school favorites from DOS era, etc.
Posted March 17, 2021
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rjbuffchix: (which also pre-dated my arrival, not that this matters).
I've been here for a lot longer and let me tell you: every change that gog has applied has been demanded by the community via the wishlist. The client, the achievements, the multiplayer stuff, etc etc etc.... everything. And they weren't like minor wishes, those were easily among the top 5 most wished features too. Of course, gamers are gamers, so when gog started rolling out those changes some people thought it was the end of the world.
Posted March 17, 2021
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Kohleran: Why does that matter. I'm boycotting for Galaxy 2.0 push down your throat reasons primarily. and that they don't listen at all to their base. And other things. If someone else is boycotting them over different reasons, so what?

GoG went from a company that I promoted to others to being ashamed I've given them the money that I have.
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Lodium: Because not evryone agrees that all the things in the galaxy client is bad
and they personally doesnt percive it as gog is pushing the galaxy client down their throat
Thats why it matter
Then they just don't care, because its not a question of IF it was pushed down the throat.

Besides, Why do I care what others think. I'm the one boycotting them. If others do, for different or similar reasons, all the better.

So tell me again, why does it matter that we have different or similar reasons?
Posted March 17, 2021
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Lodium: Because not evryone agrees that all the things in the galaxy client is bad
and they personally doesnt percive it as gog is pushing the galaxy client down their throat
Thats why it matter
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Kohleran: Then they just don't care, because its not a question of IF it was pushed down the throat.

Besides, Why do I care what others think. I'm the one boycotting them. If others do, for different or similar reasons, all the better.

So tell me again, why does it matter that we have different or similar reasons?
I didnt say that you personally had to care what others think
I just responded on a post to why i thougth it was a problem

Also i dont really agree that all those potenial galaxy users do not care
some migth not care but some migth care but not much as you
Maybe they dont like some features in the galaxy client and maybe some do like other features
Im not a mind reader so cant really say
its just guesswork since some people here are fond of some features in the client

With that i mean maybe their solution will be instead of boycott is to wait it out, contact support or whatever
Post edited March 17, 2021 by Lodium
Posted March 17, 2021
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USERNAME:rjbuffchix#Q&_^Q&Q#GROUP:4#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:1622#Q&_^Q&Q#(which also pre-dated my arrival, not that this matters).#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:1622#Q&_^Q&Q#
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Unbundling the offline installers was requested by 17 people.
Allowing purchase from other stores (e.g. Epic) via galaxy was requested by 3 people.
AFAIK, removing gogmixes was requested by 0 people.

Not exactly what I would call top 5 most wished.
Post edited March 17, 2021 by mrkgnao
Posted March 17, 2021
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mrkgnao: Unbundling the offline installers was requested by 17 people.
Allowing purchase from other stores (e.g. Epic) via galaxy was requested by 3 people.

Not exactly what I would call top 5 most wished.
but then you have people that are complaining
when games with low votes on the wishlist
do not get accepted by gog

Dont get me wrong
There are several times i think the curation process to gog has been a little weird and not consistent at all
Post edited March 17, 2021 by Lodium
Posted March 17, 2021
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This is false. Sure some of the changes have been demanded by the community but 99% of what GOG does they do because GOG want to do it.

For example, the website no one wanted them to re-design it, they did it anyway. The community hated it so GOG rolled back some changes but generally kept it which is still hated by most of the community.

Edit:

And then there was GOGmixes the community loved them, GOG removed them the community asked for them back and they are still not there.
Post edited March 17, 2021 by RoboPond
Posted March 17, 2021
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Kohleran: Why does that matter. I'm boycotting for Galaxy 2.0 push down your throat reasons primarily. and that they don't listen at all to their base. And other things. If someone else is boycotting them over different reasons, so what?

GoG went from a company that I promoted to others to being ashamed I've given them the money that I have.
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Lodium: Because not evryone agrees that all the things in the galaxy client is bad
and they personally doesnt percive it as gog is pushing the galaxy client down their throat
Thats why it matter
I still don't understand why it is a problem.
Different people buy on GOG for different reasons (e.g. DRM-free, good old games, love galaxy, etc.).
Why shouldn't different people boycott GOG for different reasons?
Posted March 17, 2021
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Hexchild: And by virtue of being boycotters we're all virtually guaranteed to be paying customers (otherwise how would joining a boycott even work?) while any other group of whiners might or might not be paying customers.
They usually aren't, from my experience and what i've heard.

They(social media "many gamers") likely were either never going to buy the games they complain/whine about, or they maybe wanted to buy them but something offended them so they choose not to buy.
(and even when that thing is "corrected", they sometimes still do not buy)
Posted March 17, 2021
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mrkgnao: Unbundling the offline installers was requested by 17 people.
Allowing purchase from other stores (e.g. Epic) via galaxy was requested by 3 people.

Not exactly what I would call top 5 most wished.
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Lodium: but then you have people that are complaining
when games with low votes on the wishlist
do not get accepted by gog

Dont get me wrong
There are several times i think the curation process to gog has been a little weird and not consistent at all
I don't understand how this is relevant. People complained vigorously about the unbundling and Epic store deal as well.
Posted March 17, 2021
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B1tF1ghter: You must hate Nintendo games then? After all they are "exclusive to a console".
I actually dislike that the majority of them are tied to certain consoles.

(I wish most if not all games would be released on as many consoles as possible, tbh)

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B1tF1ghter: I think you misunderstand something. No amount of DRM is going to stop piracy. And the pirates always get full-content edition (eventually, it may take some time in some cases, in others it's immediate).
So no, there is literally no justification whatsoever in introducing DRM for the sake of lowering piracy to in turn enrich sales as it simply doesn't work like that outside of paper.
I know DRM doesn't stop piracy....I was more saying that game makers and the stores that sell the games like to "dangle" those preorder bonuses to get people to buy certain game editions(that usually cost more) and at certain stores.

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B1tF1ghter: I think it says loads about GOG's attitude if they listened to not-proven-customers "gamers" while completely ignoring their totally real userbase on their own forums.
Agreed, and well said
Post edited March 17, 2021 by GamezRanker
Posted March 17, 2021
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Lodium: Because not evryone agrees that all the things in the galaxy client is bad
and they personally doesnt percive it as gog is pushing the galaxy client down their throat
Thats why it matter
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mrkgnao: I still don't understand why it is a problem.
Different people buy on GOG for different reasons (e.g. DRM-free, good old games, love galaxy, etc.).
Why shouldn't different people boycott GOG for different reasons?
Sorry
maybe i explained it a little bad
What i mean is
if evryone has a diffrent value to when they are going to boycott due to where their absolute limit of what they can take
that can be a problem for the boycotting campaign.

I dont mean that people if they have personal reasons to boycott shoudnt do it

I mean it in a broad way
Im comparing it a bit to pollitical campaign if that helps
Post edited March 17, 2021 by Lodium
Posted March 17, 2021
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mrkgnao: Don't hold your breath. Absolver, for example, has been like this for more than three years now.
Still, others might have their content made fully drm free some day.....who knows.

(of course, this is more on the devs/pubs....whomever is in charge of such decisions....and not as much on GOG)
Post edited March 17, 2021 by GamezRanker
Posted March 17, 2021
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mrkgnao: I still don't understand why it is a problem.
Different people buy on GOG for different reasons (e.g. DRM-free, good old games, love galaxy, etc.).
Why shouldn't different people boycott GOG for different reasons?
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Lodium: Sorry
maybe i explained it a little bad
What i mean is
if evryone has a diffrent value to when they are going to boycott due to where their absolute limit it of what they can take
that can be a problem for the boycotting campaign
Like I said, I still don't understand why it would be a problem for a boycotting campaign. Different people boycott for different reasons. If GOG makes a significant change, some will stop boycotting, some will continue boycotting, some will start boycotting, based on their agenda. All good.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionBoycotting DRM and Game Censorship on GOG, 2021-2022(5216 posts) (5216 posts) 
(5216 posts)