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Arsen7: And how many of us were feeling angry enough to sign up to this boycott, which is about more than only that game?
Not even a 100. Makes you think, doesn't it?
Not even a 100 out of those who know this thread exists.

There could be thousands of other people out there that either would join a boycott if the suggestion came up, or are already boycotting on their own or in some other group.

Or there could be almost none of them. We just don't have any data on that.
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B1tF1ghter: For the record:
I wasn't the first one to use "many gamers" term.
Almost everybody taking part in conversations related to it in few existing threads refers to the ordeal like that.
It's more of a mental shortcut instead of deliberate misquote (at least for me personally).
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Breja: Also, just because that's how my brain works, I keep thinking of it as a refrence to the "many bothans" line from Return of the Jedi, about the "many bothans" who died to bring the rebelion the info about the new Death Star. And of course the info was fake, supplied by the evil empire. See the connection?
As in: "we GOG listened to 'community's' voice and protected you customers from this rampant evil, we showed our bravery and dedication to customer feedback"? (I am being extremely sarcastic obviously, I deliberately mocked the word customers/community here)
Except the cake (GOG's implied goodwill) was a lie?
Because that's how from my perspective it looks how GOG would want people to see their actions.
And it's bloody disgusting.

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B1tF1ghter: For the record:
I wasn't the first one to use "many gamers" term.
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Hexchild: Not claiming you were. It's been bothering me for a while, and your post just happened to be the one I quoted.

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B1tF1ghter: The thing is, the original quote is so pretenciously imprecise it leaves too much room for interpretation to begin with.
It's awfully vague and used phrasing is questionable at best.
You can't exactly draw "good" conclusions out if it.
Simply put the provided details are scarce and bogus.
There is so much wrong with the original tweet that one could attempt to write a very short book on it.
Let's face it, it's BS. And the used words only make things less clear and more prone to "creative" interpretations.
In fact the tweet is so bizzare that nobody even has to try too much, sensible theories appear out of thin air.
From a PR perspective that message was unprofessional and way too casual.
Who in their right mind would provide message THAT vague.
It's written in such a way as if it was DESIGNED to PROVOKE speculation.
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Hexchild: Sure. But let's be clear here, what you just listed are some actual conclusions drawn from the original phrasing.
What I said in what you quoted was mere deduction, nowhere near consensus.

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B1tF1ghter: [...]
To quote:
"
Earlier today, it was announced that the game Devotion is coming to GOG. After receiving many messages from gamers, we have decided not to list the game in our store.
"
[...]
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Arsen7: Guys, I suspect that we may be underestimating the scale of China.
It's irrelevant. No country should stand above others.

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Arsen7: If only 1% of the members of the Communist Party of China are gamers, and if out of these gamers only 1% felt offended enough to actually write a message to GOG, then that would still make over 9,000 messages.

I'm not even mentioning possible gamers that might not be members of the Party, but still feel bad.
I'm having some trouble deciding if you are being sarcastic or serious here.
But I will for a second roll with it:
the officially designated deliberately picked word "gamers" * doesn't even imply those bunch were GOG's customers at all.
For all we know that could have been literally anybody (IF we would be supposed to roll with official statement anyway), including but not limited to: trolls, angry tweeters crowd, a bunch of toxic "I don't have anything better to do", paid actors, competition, bot networks and even bored employees.

* What is that even supposed to mean?
Isn't it kind of profoundly obvious that each GOG's customer is already a gamer?
In which case IF the feedback would be coming from ACTUAL customers (non-new, non-lacking-purchases, not-newly-created GOG accounts) the word "community" or "userbase" would be far more appropriate, especially from PR standpoint.
Word "gamers" sticks out like a thorn in that statement.
It does SO MUCH that many people, myself included, draw special attention to it and try to find the actual sense of using it.
From my perspective it's a cover up to not directly say those people weren't even GOG's cusomers to begin with and GOG listened to some random angry bunch (possibly max 2 digits amount).

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Arsen7: And how many of us were feeling angry enough to sign up to this boycott, which is about more than only that game?
Not even a 100. Makes you think, doesn't it?
1.You must be really exhausted or skipped your research
https://www.gog.com/wishlist/games/devotion
There is even duplicate thread https://www.gog.com/wishlist/games/devotion_1 the timing of which makes me wonder which one was the first one (the first linked contains too many comments and I don't have time to backtrack atm).
2.I am yet to see a boycott/petition/similar-goal that would accurately display real amount of concept-sympathetic people.
The numbers in this thread alone are in no way representative to the overall amount of people sympathetic to the cause.

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Arsen7: Obviously, there is always the problem that people tend to be more vocal about things that they don't like than about things that they find good.
More like, people are too lazy and afraid to get out of their comfort zones to fight for the right cause unless it affects them personally.

In before I get downvoted again due to some people being unable to handle truth and/or free speech ;)
Tho I honestly don't care. This is nothing compared to what I'm currently going through in my IRL life ;)

edit: I forgot to paste literal half of the message :P
Post edited March 04, 2021 by B1tF1ghter
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B1tF1ghter: [...]
To quote:
"
Earlier today, it was announced that the game Devotion is coming to GOG. After receiving many messages from gamers, we have decided not to list the game in our store.
"
[...]
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Arsen7: Guys, I suspect that we may be underestimating the scale of China.

Taking into consideration only the members of the Communist Party of China (which might feel more "officially" touched), if only 1% of these members are gamers, and if out of these gamers only 1% felt offended enough to actually write a message to GOG, then that would still make over 9,000 messages.

I'm not even mentioning possible gamers that might not be members of the Party, but still feel bad.

And how many of us were feeling angry enough to sign up to this boycott, which is about more than only that game?
Not even a 100. Makes you think, doesn't it?
Funny that you should mention the number 9,000:
https://www.gog.com/wishlist/games/devotion
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Enebias: Aaaand today I'm not buying Journey to the Savage Planet. Damn, they're making this difficult.
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ReynardFox: I feel you, I'm over 300 bucks worth of purchases that I haven't made since GOG lied to our faces, it is difficult, and It pisses me off even moreso because I can't support developers the way I want to anymore.

The wishlist is absolutely vitriolic, every twitter post gets hate comments, the forum is lit up with negative threads... and yet GOG just stays silent. It truly is as pathetic as it is demoralizing, but I have to make a stand as best I can...
Agree with every word you guys said. I am impressed at the stubbornness Gog has been displaying through all this.

The loss of money probably isn't even the worst damage they are incurring. The community is extremely divided by now. Some threads it feels like everyone must ascribe to one camp "the whiners" or "the bootlickers". Extremely reputable members of this community like Mrkgnao are fed up with Gog and stopped making this place more welcoming for newcomers. The sense of camaraderie (that had been shrinking for a few years) is completely gone except for the occasional giveaway thread. Too bad none of these items can be placed on financial charts for the morons at the helm to see how self-destructive their decisions are being. Unfortunately the language of red numbers if the only thing that could make them backpedal.

Also, anyone here feels like telling your friends to buy games on Gog? Yeah, me neither. Sadly a much smaller growth of the userbase will take a while to be noticed and can be blamed on a hundred other things like the disastrous CP77 release. By the time upper management realizes that their idiot decisions are hindering their growth it will be too late to recover any of the lost customer trust.

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Arsen7: And how many of us were feeling angry enough to sign up to this boycott, which is about more than only that game?
Not even a 100. Makes you think, doesn't it?
The number of sign ups can't be used as an accurate representation of how many people stopped buying here. At most it can show a lower boundary.

As an example I just picked the Devotion wishlist item's first screen: there were 9 comments in my screen by 8 unique accounts. Five of them were stating they were not buying on Gog anymore, yet neither of them are in the list of this thread's first post. You can pick a dozen other like them in every page of the CP77 release thread. And since we know that disastrous PR is almost a given on Gog you can bet it won't be long til the next controversy appears and we get to see many more "unofficial" boycotters.
Post edited March 04, 2021 by joppo
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Some time ago when gog added gog galaxy 2.0 a small group of users started complaining that they did not want gog galaxy 2.0 even though it was optional.

These users took over the gog forums so most of the gog users moved to other social networks.

I remember that gog was warned that this small group of users would destroy their store.

Well, in a short time gog will not exist, no drm will not exist and thousands of users have warned cd project.

These people talk about boycotting gog and that means making the regrettable policies of valve or epic strong.

That is the only reality. What's more, here there are steam users who talk about boycotting and some happily write it in another forum.
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StrongSoldier: Some time ago when gog added gog galaxy 2.0 a small group of users started complaining that they did not want gog galaxy 2.0 even though it was optional.

These users took over the gog forums so most of the gog users moved to other social networks.

I remember that gog was warned that this small group of users would destroy their store.

Well, in a short time gog will not exist, no drm will not exist and thousands of users have warned cd project.

These people talk about boycotting gog and that means making the regrettable policies of valve or epic strong.

That is the only reality. What's more, here there are steam users who talk about boycotting and some happily write it in another forum.
Cry me a river.
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Hexchild: But "many gamers" is indeed a misquote, and misquotes tend to eventually grow a life of their own, with less and less regard over time for original context.
While you're technically correct that "many gamers" isn't the precise quote, it doesn't misrepresent Gog's post at all and is actually somewhat lenient.

If we assume that those "many messages from gamers" didn't come from many gamers, therefore we have to assume they have come from few-but-very-vocal gamers. Which means that, despite taking weeks to even read a ticket from actual users, Gog have with lightning fast speed decided that they should do what a small group of individuals demanded.

So while both interpretations insult our intelligence with the use of "gamers" as the source of the request, the latter is even worse because it means that Gog is perfectly okay with giving that small group of individuals more power to decide what should be here than the collective of customers and that they should bend as fast as they can. The smaller that group is, the more appalling it is that they have the power to veto releases and elicit such a fast response.
Post edited March 04, 2021 by joppo
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StrongSoldier: Some time ago when gog added gog galaxy 2.0 a small group of users started complaining that they did not want gog galaxy 2.0 even though it was optional.

These users took over the gog forums so most of the gog users moved to other social networks.

I remember that gog was warned that this small group of users would destroy their store.

Well, in a short time gog will not exist, no drm will not exist and thousands of users have warned cd project.

These people talk about boycotting gog and that means making the regrettable policies of valve or epic strong.

That is the only reality. What's more, here there are steam users who talk about boycotting and some happily write it in another forum.
It's quite remarkable what nonsense you continue to post here. One would think that by accident at least one sentence of what you write would be true, but nope. Not a single one.

I'm so tired of the blatant lies and utter nonsense people defending GOG keep spouting.
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StrongSoldier: Some time ago when gog added gog galaxy 2.0 a small group of users started complaining that they did not want gog galaxy 2.0 even though it was optional.

These users took over the gog forums so most of the gog users moved to other social networks.

I remember that gog was warned that this small group of users would destroy their store.

Well, in a short time gog will not exist, no drm will not exist and thousands of users have warned cd project.

These people talk about boycotting gog and that means making the regrettable policies of valve or epic strong.

That is the only reality. What's more, here there are steam users who talk about boycotting and some happily write it in another forum.
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Breja: It's quite remarkable what nonsense you continue to post here. One would think that by accident at least one sentence of what you write would be true, but nope. Not a single one.

I'm so tired of the blatant lies and utter nonsense people defending GOG keep spouting.
Eh, I'm perfectly okay with StrongSoldier saying his nonsense because anyone with more than half a brain cell can see that there isn't the slightest truth or logic in it, but as long as he posts he's incidentally bumping this thread.
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joppo: If we assume that those "many messages from gamers" didn't come from many gamers, therefore we have to assume they have come from few-but-very-vocal gamers. Which means that, despite taking weeks to even read a ticket from actual users, Gog have with lightning fast speed decided that they should do what a small group of individuals demanded.
You know, I just realized this:
You know what's funny?
Since the original message was so vaguely ghetto-imprecise it actually doesn't exclude GOG's employees and shareholders from the alleged group of "gamers".
From the very moment I saw that message that word was mind-boggling to me.
Just, WHY would they use specificly THAT word.
From all sorts of perspectives this looks like a coverup of SOMETHING to me.
Perhaps that something could actually be "our shareholders nagged us, throwing solid pie-charts into our faces, and they just happen to be gamers, while we have liberal definition of 'many'".
But that's just yet another theory.

What's not a theory, just a solid fact, is that they specificly didn't use words such as "customers", "userbase", "community", "ticket", "support". Which provokes MANY QUESTIONS.

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StrongSoldier: These people talk about boycotting gog and that means making the regrettable policies of valve or epic strong.
Do you live in a separate world where everything is either black or white?
Absolute maximum opposite values ONLY?
Everything or nothing?
Cheesecake or diet?

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StrongSoldier: That is the only reality.
I dare to disagree.

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StrongSoldier: What's more, here there are steam users who talk about boycotting and some happily write it in another forum.
I use Steam. I have many games there. Steam also does have many games that are DRM-free-after-downloading.
Also, unlike GOG, Valve has not lied to my face about their core principles.

In NO WAY people using less-DRM-free-friendly platforms can be set as prohibition from allowing somebody to voice concerns about what is going on HERE, what is wrong HERE with THIS platform.
Someone's usage of competing platforms is in no way related to what's going on here. Other platforms having issues CANNOT be an excuse for THIS platform to do wrong things.
Your argumentation is now just blatantly pathetic.
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B1tF1ghter: Do you live in a separate world where everything is either black or white?
Absolute maximum opposite values ONLY?
Everything or nothing?
That can't be the case, their avatar is definitely not black and white, and I don't mean just in the literal sense. The company who made that game seems very pro-DRM to me, and it is not available here on GOG. ;P
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joppo: If we assume that those "many messages from gamers" didn't come from many gamers, therefore we have to assume they have come from few-but-very-vocal gamers. Which means that, despite taking weeks to even read a ticket from actual users, Gog have with lightning fast speed decided that they should do what a small group of individuals demanded.
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B1tF1ghter: You know, I just realized this:
You know what's funny?
Since the original message was so vaguely ghetto-imprecise it actually doesn't exclude GOG's employees and shareholders from the alleged group of "gamers".
From the very moment I saw that message that word was mind-boggling to me.
Just, WHY would they use specificly THAT word.
From all sorts of perspectives this looks like a coverup of SOMETHING to me.
Perhaps that something could actually be "our shareholders nagged us, throwing solid pie-charts into our faces, and they just happen to be gamers, while we have liberal definition of 'many'".
But that's just yet another theory.

What's not a theory, just a solid fact, is that they specificly didn't use words such as "customers", "userbase", "community", "ticket", "support". Which provokes MANY QUESTIONS.

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StrongSoldier: These people talk about boycotting gog and that means making the regrettable policies of valve or epic strong.
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B1tF1ghter: Do you live in a separate world where everything is either black or white?
Absolute maximum opposite values ONLY?
Everything or nothing?
Cheesecake or diet?

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StrongSoldier: That is the only reality.
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B1tF1ghter: I dare to disagree.

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StrongSoldier: What's more, here there are steam users who talk about boycotting and some happily write it in another forum.
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B1tF1ghter: I use Steam. I have many games there. Steam also does have many games that are DRM-free-after-downloading.
Also, unlike GOG, Valve has not lied to my face about their core principles.

In NO WAY people using less-DRM-free-friendly platforms can be set as prohibition from allowing somebody to voice concerns about what is going on HERE, what is wrong HERE with THIS platform.
Someone's usage of competing platforms is in no way related to what's going on here. Other platforms having issues CANNOT be an excuse for THIS platform to do wrong things.
Your argumentation is now just blatantly pathetic.
Valve has lied: At least it was sincere in its judgment before the European Union.

'we don't sell games, we rent them'

Incredible that you defend valve transparency over a dc project. You have no idea.
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StrongSoldier: Some time ago when gog added gog galaxy 2.0 a small group of users started complaining that they did not want gog galaxy 2.0 even though it was optional.

These users took over the gog forums so most of the gog users moved to other social networks.

I remember that gog was warned that this small group of users would destroy their store.

Well, in a short time gog will not exist, no drm will not exist and thousands of users have warned cd project.

These people talk about boycotting gog and that means making the regrettable policies of valve or epic strong.

That is the only reality. What's more, here there are steam users who talk about boycotting and some happily write it in another forum.
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Breja: It's quite remarkable what nonsense you continue to post here. One would think that by accident at least one sentence of what you write would be true, but nope. Not a single one.

I'm so tired of the blatant lies and utter nonsense people defending GOG keep spouting.
I‘m always curious with these people. Are they trolling or are they really believing these things they say? I‘m not sure what is worse. Ok, I do know.
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Hexchild: But "many gamers" is indeed a misquote, and misquotes tend to eventually grow a life of their own, with less and less regard over time for original context.
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joppo: While you're technically correct that "many gamers" isn't the precise quote, it doesn't misrepresent Gog's post at all and is actually somewhat lenient.

If we assume that those "many messages from gamers" didn't come from many gamers, therefore we have to assume they have come from few-but-very-vocal gamers. Which means that, despite taking weeks to even read a ticket from actual users, Gog have with lightning fast speed decided that they should do what a small group of individuals demanded.

So while both interpretations insult our intelligence with the use of "gamers" as the source of the request, the latter is even worse because it means that Gog is perfectly okay with giving that small group of individuals more power to decide what should be here than the collective of customers and that they should bend as fast as they can. The smaller that group is, the more appalling it is that they have the power to veto releases and elicit such a fast response.
Okay, here are a few question for the ages:

If "many gamers" fell in the forest and nobody was around, would there be a noise?

How "many gamers" does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

You know, perhaps it wasn't "many gamers" after all, perhaps it was "binders full of gamers"?

Yeah, "many messages from gamers" vs. "many gamers", cannot leave out "messages from" what a horse race...

How sad that people are actually arguing over this.

and yet Ob-La-Di Ob-La-Da.
Post edited March 04, 2021 by EnforcerSunWoo
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EnforcerSunWoo: How "many gamers" does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
It always takes at least two to screw. But why would they want to do it in a lightbulb?