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chen182: you people entirely missed my point.

Boycotts don't work because consumers, especially GAMERS don't care. It has nothing to do with the companies not caring

They will still buy it anyway even if they tell you they didn't.

Just like the famous image of Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 and 3
I think you may be confusing two logical statements. "Some people lie (or are weak)" does not mean "everyone lies (or is weak)".

Even if some of the people listed in post #1 lie (or are weak), some do not (or are not), myself, for example. So, it's not that there is no boycott at all. It just might (or might not) be a little (or a lot) smaller than it appears on post #1. But it's there and it's working. Quite well, in my case.
Post edited February 09, 2021 by mrkgnao
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chen182: boycotts don't work

didn't you learn anything from Call of Duty and GamerGate
That's kind of like saying school doesn't work because two of your cousins flunked.

I for one refuse to be part of the self-fulfilling prophecy crowd.
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chen182: you people entirely missed my point.

Boycotts don't work because consumers, especially GAMERS don't care. It has nothing to do with the companies not caring

They will still buy it anyway even if they tell you they didn't.

Just like the famous image of Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 and 3
You know, I even kinda agree with you. Gamers are pathetic junkies looking for their next fix. Game journos and devs have realised this and feel free to hold their own audience in total contempt. They know they can get away with it.

That being said, I'll try my utmost not to be a pathetic junkie.
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chen182: boycotts don't work

didn't you learn anything from Call of Duty and GamerGate
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Hexchild: That's kind of like saying school doesn't work because two of your cousins flunked.

I for one refuse to be part of the self-fulfilling prophecy crowd.
boycotts dont work this is a fact
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Hexchild: That's kind of like saying school doesn't work because two of your cousins flunked.

I for one refuse to be part of the self-fulfilling prophecy crowd.
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Orkhepaj: boycotts dont work this is a fact
Saying boycotts don't work is like saying demos dont work. It is true for small boykotts as it is for small demos. Noone cares if there are 100 people demonstrating for something millions of people dont care. Same goes for boycotts. Its the numbers. If for some reason a large number of people is boycotting something it sure does work. The numbers are just too small (yet). However this does not mean you cant make a statement and join the boycott for your own peace of mind.

And yeah I know I dont support the Boykott yet I am just sympathetic to the concept. The reason for this for me personally I dont think a full boykott is necessary but others may feel it is and thats good.
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interesting points I guess... what does the GOG DRM free guarantee even really mean?

is it "I can download an offline installer, run it and play the game totally offline?"

I guess that's probably what it should be.

I loved factorio and didn't mind having to sign up with the developer's site to get updates since I bypassed steam and gog and bought on their site directly (but did it really bypass steam I wonder? at least I can play without steam touching the game, but I wonder if they got a cut because I got a "free" steam license with the game)
But yeah I guess even that little bit of requirement is DRM... but where do you draw the line I guess... expect every developer to post their game and all updates on a totally open website? or at least allow them an unobtrusive method of at least not allowing moochers to get the game for free?

I think the OP need to analyze their "righteous" indignation a little still
But also I guess GOG is slipping into the muck a bit after all too

But as for pushing galaxy or not.. meh.. I personally don't mind it and kind of like the experience since I don't have to open my browser up for becoming a game maintenance platform which would be a horrible thing for security purposes.
Now if they start saying the only way to install a game and run it is through galaxy that might be a problem, but the whole thing about not liking the free perks as payment for using galaxy is a different matter from DRM.
But I bet the OP thinks that GALAXY == DRM which it isn't ... yet? and better not become such
I don't mind letting GOG get some information for the price of running the client and watching what I do with it... of course if I found out it was watching more than just what I did with the gaming I wouldn't use it anymore but I'm hoping they have sunk that deep. Fact is galaxy could be a decent tool but what incentive is there for them to make it? if they ask for SOMEinformation as the price I'm ok with that as a form of payment and the incentive are nice too though I never noticed any offers "only in galaxy" but I'll take your word on it...
Basically though I think it's just one more item exchanged for the asking for some usage information which is fine... but I think here the OP is just whining because they wanted something for free and didn't get it.... basically it wasn't free, it was for the cost of using galaxy instead..

people complain that facebook for example tracks them... well guess what? FB isn't free really what it is is an site the costs your privacy for the convenience of posting stuff and hosting stuff. The same is true for galaxy but hopefully no where near to the extent of FB... if you don't like it, don't use it, but also don't complain about the payment for something that requires work to produce
Post edited February 09, 2021 by coffee_darkness
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coffee_darkness: interesting points I guess... what does the GOG DRM free guarantee even really mean?

is it "I can download an offline installer, run it and play the game totally offline?"

I guess that's probably what it should be.
I also see their GOG DRM free guarantee that way.

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coffee_darkness: I think the OP need to analyze their "righteous" indignation a little still
But also I guess GOG is slipping into the muck a bit after all too
We can agree on that GOG is pushing some boundaries and trying out how far they can go. For me its fien as long as I can download the games, store the games and play the games (completly offline). As soon as I can not do that anymore I move away from GOG.

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coffee_darkness: But as for pushing galaxy or not.. meh.. I personally don't mind it and kind of like the experience since I don't have to open my browser up for becoming a game maintenance platform which would be a horrible thing for security purposes.
Now if they start saying the only way to install a game and run it is through galaxy that might be a problem, but the whole thing about not liking the free perks as payment for using galaxy is a different matter from DRM.
But I bet the OP thinks that GALAXY == DRM which it isn't ... yet? and better not become such
I don't mind letting GOG get some information for the price of running the client and watching what I do with it... of course if I found out it was watching more than just what I did with the gaming I wouldn't use it anymore but I'm hoping they have sunk that deep. Fact is galaxy could be a decent tool but what incentive is there for them to make it? if they ask for SOMEinformation as the price I'm ok with that as a form of payment and the incentive are nice too though I never noticed any offers "only in galaxy" but I'll take your word on it...
Basically though I think it's just one more item exchanged for the asking for some usage information which is fine... but I think here the OP is just whining because they wanted something for free and didn't get it.... basically it wasn't free, it was for the cost of using galaxy instead..
I enjoy Galaxy as a service for updating my gamefiles. But I also do not launch my games from galaxy directly. As long as I dont need the galaxy launcher to launch my game, and galaxy isnt collection data it is not supposed to do it can stay. As soon as it starts phoneing home weird shit it gets shredded into bits and bytes and good bye Galaxy.

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coffee_darkness: people complain that facebook for example tracks them... well guess what? FB isn't free really what it is is an site the costs your privacy for the convenience of posting stuff and hosting stuff. The same is true for galaxy but hopefully no where near to the extent of FB... if you don't like it, don't use it, but also don't complain about the payment for something that requires work to produce
The comparison between the galaxy launcher and facebook isnt a good one i think. I know the cost for facebook is my privacy and if I use facebook like a maniac posting my whole life there well than I pay a big dumb premium price for it. For Galaxy i see it more as a service and investment for GOG to get more people to buy from GOG in the first place. People who like the comfort of a launcher and use steam are more likely to buy from GOG DRM free games when they get a nice launcher there too. I dont intend to pay the galaxy launcher with my privacy as soon as it invades that it goes.
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coffee_darkness: people complain that facebook for example tracks them... well guess what? FB isn't free really what it is is an site the costs your privacy for the convenience of posting stuff and hosting stuff. The same is true for galaxy
It really isn't. Facebook gets 100% of their money from advertising. GOG gets their money from selling games. There's zero "value" or justification in gating off content "because you used a client" for Galaxy when Galaxy & offline installer users are paying the same money and GOG gets the same income. There's also nothing to stop you using other 3rd party launchers for DRM-Free games such as Playnite (plus the fact offline installers show adverts during installation) at which point such "Galaxy is like Facebook, and you should all be grateful for receiving less content and stop your righteous indignation complaining" excuses go straight out the window.
Post edited February 09, 2021 by BrianSim
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Hexchild: That's kind of like saying school doesn't work because two of your cousins flunked.

I for one refuse to be part of the self-fulfilling prophecy crowd.
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Orkhepaj: boycotts dont work this is a fact
https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/ethicalcampaigns/boycotts/history-successful-boycotts
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Orkhepaj: boycotts dont work this is a fact
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The_Puppet94: Saying boycotts don't work is like saying demos dont work. It is true for small boykotts as it is for small demos. Noone cares if there are 100 people demonstrating for something millions of people dont care. Same goes for boycotts. Its the numbers. If for some reason a large number of people is boycotting something it sure does work. The numbers are just too small (yet). However this does not mean you cant make a statement and join the boycott for your own peace of mind.

And yeah I know I dont support the Boykott yet I am just sympathetic to the concept. The reason for this for me personally I dont think a full boykott is necessary but others may feel it is and thats good.
Actually it really doesn't matter how many PEOPLE do this.
What is important is how much potential spend is lost in the process.
Few high spenders can make the same impact as a whole plethora of casual spenders.
So number of PEOPLE doesn't matter BY ITSELF.
There is at least a bunch of people here in this thread alone that are loyal customers and had regular spend on GOG in past years.
Now that that's gone it punches a hole in GOG's revenue. How big is a question I cannot answer.
But it's not "non existent". It does make an impact.
If we would manage to collect here a whole lot of HVT's then GOG would get considerably financially impacted and would maybe "already" notice that the problems they produce will not go unnoticed.
But since boycott adoption rate is slow it's also slow to gain HVTs here.
That's why it's important to gain as much supporters as possible regardless of their spend size so that we EVENTUALLY punch big enough hole in GOG's finances for them to start noticing and doing something about it.

Saying "oh it's only ~100 people so I will not join because the boycott is small" is basically admitting to refusing to take actions on a problem, refusing to get out of your comfort zone and use your will to change what's wrong with this world.
It's only adding to the general insult.

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coffee_darkness: is it "I can download an offline installer, run it and play the game totally offline?"
That's what GOG advertises and as customers we shouldn't expect the company to lie in our faces.
But GOG does anyway.

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coffee_darkness: but where do you draw the line I guess... expect every developer to post their game and all updates on a totally open website? or at least allow them an unobtrusive method of at least not allowing moochers to get the game for free?
You are basically suggesting using some form of DRM in this day and age is justified for the sake of actual customers.
Which it is really not.

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coffee_darkness: But I bet the OP thinks that GALAXY == DRM which it isn't
You know, basically like every other page someone like you turns up who doesn't understand that:
A.GOG Galaxy is explicitly called by GOG themselves as ALWAYS OPTIONAL
B.If some piece of in-game content is locked behind a launcher (which, mind you, is severely reducing game run capabilities since it has higher system requirements than many old games, therefore if you want to play an old game with Galaxy you either have to use new system or you just can't while if you would play without it you can play it on an older system) it IS a DRM. And at that point Galaxy is no longer "optional" - it's not "Galaxy is optional to get this content" - it is "Galaxy is mandatory to obtain this optional content".

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coffee_darkness: But as for pushing galaxy or not.. meh.. I personally don't mind it and kind of like the experience since I don't have to open my browser up for becoming a game maintenance platform
"convenience over freedom"
Seems like alarmingly growing trend these days.

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coffee_darkness: I don't mind letting GOG get some information for the price of running the client and watching what I do with it... of course if I found out it was watching more than just what I did with the gaming I wouldn't use it anymore but I'm hoping they have sunk that deep. Fact is galaxy could be a decent tool but what incentive is there for them to make it? if they ask for SOMEinformation as the price I'm ok with that as a form of payment and the incentive are nice too though I never noticed any offers "only in galaxy" but I'll take your word on it...
Basically though I think it's just one more item exchanged for the asking for some usage information which is fine... but I think here the OP is just whining because they wanted something for free and didn't get it.... basically it wasn't free, it was for the cost of using galaxy instead..

people complain that facebook for example tracks them... well guess what? FB isn't free really what it is is an site the costs your privacy for the convenience of posting stuff and hosting stuff. The same is true for galaxy but hopefully no where near to the extent of FB... if you don't like it, don't use it, but also don't complain about the payment for something that requires work to produce
You sound like those people who don't realise or are ok with the fact that EGS freebies are not actually free just you pay with data on your private persona instead of actual money.

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coffee_darkness: which would be a horrible thing for security purposes.
How you deal with your personal computers' security and how you possibly allow through your negligence to get your browser contaminated to the point of endangering downloads made through HTTPS by cross-site attacks is not a justification for pushing an "always optional" client software as mandatory or "better" than browser based downloads.

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The_Puppet94: As soon as it starts phoneing home weird shit it gets shredded into bits and bytes and good bye Galaxy.
I hate to break it to you but it definitely does have telemetry.
At the very least it definitely scans and uploads info on your hardware/system config and I personally don't see how that is related to or could help your gaming experience and your personal life business.
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chen182: you people entirely missed my point.

Boycotts don't work because consumers, especially GAMERS don't care. It has nothing to do with the companies not caring

They will still buy it anyway even if they tell you they didn't.

Just like the famous image of Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 and 3
In this case, the boycott is very easy to do. Other stores exist that sell the products GOG sell. Hell, in my case I actually prefer Steam for the new stuff and used GOG to get the classics. I'm here because of Devotion.

By backtracking, they actually took away one of the few moments I would even give their store money under normal circumstances.
Boycott gog ... the only store not drm ...

And above buying on steam which is drm and with monopolistic behaviors ...

With two eggs...
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StrongSoldier: Boycott gog ... the only store not drm ...

And above buying on steam which is drm and with monopolistic behaviors ...

With two eggs...
I thought GOG WAS doing DRM now. Isn't that the main problem with this galaxy launcher? Also, Steam themselves don't remove games because some people whine about it. Devs can request that, but the main store just leaves them on shelves otherwise.
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StrongSoldier: Boycott gog ... the only store not drm ...

And above buying on steam which is drm and with monopolistic behaviors ...

With two eggs...
Didn't you already say this? Also there are other stores with no drm. gog does have drm by the way.
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StrongSoldier: Boycott gog ... the only store not drm ...

And above buying on steam which is drm and with monopolistic behaviors ...

With two eggs...
A few corrections:
1) There are other stores that sell only or primarily DRM-free games (let me know if you need a list)
2) GOG does sell games with some degree of DRM, depending on your definition of DRM
3) Not buying on GOG does not in any way imply buying on Steam --- one can buy from neither
4) If one compares stores that do carry DRM, it might be considered sensible to buy from a store that sells them cheap and keeps them up to date, rather than from one that sells them dear and does not
Post edited February 10, 2021 by mrkgnao