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General discussionGOG 2022 update #2: our commitment to DRM-free gaming(543 posts)(543 posts)
(543 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 17, 2022
Thanks for all the feedback you gave us after the previous update. You’re awesome and it shows the GOG insights piques your interest. Today’s article is about a topic that we know is very important to you – our commitment to DRM-free gaming and what it exactly means.

GOG was built on trust, which is at the very core of our identity. It is evidenced by our 30-day refund policy or releasing games DRM-free, among other things. At the same time, we understand DRM-free might mean different things to different people, especially when modern games blend offline and online experiences.

When GOG first launched, the gaming market looked very different from what it is now – retail was the main place to buy games, and digital distribution was just taking baby steps. DRM, the copy protection software created to protect licenses against unauthorized disc copying, was a huge source of annoyance for gamers often restricting how they can access their content. From the beginning, part of GOG’s mission was to provide gamers with a simple way to access and play games, without the need to fiddle with files or deal with any DRM. Making sure you can play games purchased on GOG offline, make backup copies, and install them as many times as you need is even more relevant now, as things like game preservation become an important topic for the whole industry.

Today, while some of the most infamous DRMs of the past are thankfully long gone, it doesn’t mean the constraints are fully gone. They just have a different, more complex face.

Games are evolving and many titles offer features beyond single-player offline gameplay, like multiplayer, achievements, vanities, rewards. Many such games are already on GOG and will continue to join our catalog. But it also raises the question: is this a new frontier for DRM?

And this is the crux of the matter. Some think it is, some don’t. Some hate it, some don’t mind it. And to be fair, we didn’t comment on it ourselves for quite some time and feel this is the time to do so:

We believe you should have freedom of choice and the right to decide how you use, enjoy, and keep the games you bought. It manifests in three points:
1. The single-player mode has to be accessible offline.

2. Games you bought and downloaded can never be taken from you or altered against your will.

3. The GOG GALAXY client is and will remain optional for accessing single-player offline mode.


We fully commit to all those points. Aside from this, we reaffirm our continuous effort to make games compatible with future OSs and available for you for years to come.

As for multiplayer, achievements, and all that jazz – games with those features belong on GOG. Having said that, we believe that you have the right to make an informed choice about the content that you choose to enjoy and we won’t tell you how and where you can access or store your games. To make it easier to discover titles that include features like multiplayer, unlockable cosmetics, timed events, or user-generated content, we’re adding information about such functionalities on product pages. In short, you’ll always know.

We always took a lot of pride in the freedom we provide gamers. While we know DRM-free may have a different meaning to everyone, we believe you have the right to decide how you use, enjoy, and keep the titles you get on GOG. With games evolving towards adding more online features, we want you to understand our DRM-free approach and what it means to us. It is an important topic – let us know what you think.
Posted March 19, 2022
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chandra: I’ve seen an avid discussion about what DRM and DRM-free really stands for and, as we’ve mentioned in the article, it may have a different meaning to everyone. Some spoke up that it may not entirely fit into what we emphasised ourselves. We understand and respect your right to have your own opinion on the matter or that you may not agree with our definition, but we do stand by it.

we believe each developer has the right to decide whether they want to give additional incentives, like cosmetics, that do not impact the single-player gameplay. The fact CDPR and GOG are a part of the same group does not change the fact they are the creators of the game, and we are a digital storefront.

In regards to your comments around Hitman and if it comes back to GOG – the game won’t be released as a DRM-free title in the same form as offered back in September 2021.

we want to reaffirm our commitment to DRM-free games and want you to understand what it means for us.
Different people may have different definitions of what DRM means, but even with that being so, I'm pretty sure that no one disagrees with the fact that GOG is using the Galaxy client as a DRM-gate for Cyberpunk 2077 content that GOG and/or CDPR purposely & happily choose to have DRM-gated.

That remains totally unacceptable to most of GOG's customers, regardless of different people having different definitions of DRM.

I think GOG is failing to understand this simple point: there is no possible way for GOG staff to make this right by way of saying the "correct" warm rosy words. It doesn't matter how well-written, or how meticulously, or how eloquently, a GOG staff member tries to defend & justify this crap: no possible words can make it defensible and/or justifiable.

Because the problem isn't with the particular words that GOG chooses or doesn't choose to use in order to spin-doctor it's new philosophy as being great, this philosophy which advocates for the embracement of some forms of DRM, sometimes.

The problem lies within the core premise of GOG's terrible new philosophy itself. Therefore, until if & when GOG completely abandons & renounces that horrible philosophy, then GOG is going to continue to alienate & repel most of its remaining customers (many have already left long ago, for exactly these same kinds of DRM-creep reasons).

GOG renouncing and abandoning its new DRM-embracing philosophy, and then apologizing for having embraced it and having tried to defend it (like the original post of this thread does, and like the quoted post which I am now replying to also does), is the only way to make your customers happy in regards to this principle.

As for GOG's statement: "we want to reaffirm our commitment to DRM-free games" --- GOG is quite literally doing the exact opposite of that.

GOG's actions in regards to this matter aren't even logical. As fronzelneekburm pointed out earlier in this thread, GOG should think about what it is gaining, versus what it is losing, by taking such an anti-consumer position and thereby angering your core customers.

Realistically, how many people do you think GOG/CDPR has successfully enticed into becoming ardent lifelong devoted GOG Galaxy users as a result of the Cyberpunk 2077 DRM-gated content? 20 people at most?

Yet for taking that same position, GOG/CDPR has surely repelled hundreds, if not thousands, if not tens of thousands of customers.

How is that worth it for GOG?

Is this supposed to be helping GOG to increase its profits and grow? Because if that's GOG's goal, then its terrible decisions are thwarting its goal.

And GOG doubling-down, tripling-down, and quadrupling-down on its terrible decisions is just making things even worse for GOG.

If GOG doesn't want to do the right thing because it's the moral thing to do, then GOG should at least start to do the right thing out of necessity, because doing so is the only hope that GOG has to become financially solvent going forward.

And if GOG has the gall & audacity to re-release Hitman GOTY DRM'ed crap, and/other similarly-DRM'ed games --- as the quoted post whjich I'm now replying to is strongly implying that GOG will --- then that is just going to accelerate GOG's demise to a colossal degree.

As many others have pointed out, those who wants DRM'ed games will just buy them on Steam and/or EGS and/or other DRM storefronts instead of buying the GOG versions of those same DRM'ed games. Meanwhile, by selling full-fledged DRM'ed games, GOG will drive away the last remaining customers who it currently has left.

So the point being, GOG, you are not helping your own company by sticking by your horrible decisions, instead of reversing them and correcting course, the latter of which would be the most sensible thing you could possibly do.

I again reiterate, because this point cannot be emphasized strongly enough: warm rosy words from GOG cannot ever make this right, and cannot ever win back your customers' loyalty: only a substantial change in direction from GOG can accomplish that.
Post edited March 19, 2022 by Ancient-Red-Dragon
Posted March 19, 2022
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Ancient-Red-Dragon:
It is not about different definitions, concealing multiplayer behind a client with a proprietary infrastructure is a form of DRM. If GOG goes down, nobody would be able to play multiplayer games. It would be different if GOG decides to go open source with those libraries.
Post edited March 19, 2022 by Arundir
Posted March 19, 2022
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chandra: That being said, we’re adding notices about such functionalities on product pages so you can make an informed choice whether to purchase such a title or not. To answer one of your inquiries on the matter - these will show up in the form of boxed notices, such as this one.
That's not a good placement of the information, the box needs to be at the top of the description, please move it. It's extremely easy to miss it down where it is on the link above. Important information like that needs to be shown properly and not hidden away at the bottom.
Posted March 19, 2022
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chandra: Let me chime in here with a longer message to address, and hopefully clarify, some of your comments I see repeating in this thread.

I’ve seen an avid discussion about what DRM and DRM-free really stands for and, as we’ve mentioned in the article, it may have a different meaning to everyone. Some spoke up that it may not entirely fit into what we emphasised ourselves. We understand and respect your right to have your own opinion on the matter or that you may not agree with our definition, but we do stand by it. Games with features like multiplayer, achievements, vanities, rewards, timed events, etc. belong on GOG.

That being said, we’re adding notices about such functionalities on product pages so you can make an informed choice whether to purchase such a title or not. To answer one of your inquiries on the matter - these will show up in the form of boxed notices, such as this one.

As for offline / GOG GALAXY installers having different versions - there are additional beta builds in the client in a separate in-development branch, which is available only for those titles that developers decide to share unstable builds with users (more info here). As they are not release candidate builds, as such they are not the Stable Version (version checked by the developer and our QA and Product Teams with their confirmation everything works as intended). The discrepancies in build versions refer to separate beta branches only. Any other cases are most likely due to human error or our automation system failing to generate the notice and deliver it to our Team - like it was with the mentioned Afterparty. I’ve already informed our Technical Support Team in that regard (they are on it!). I do want to highlight that it’s not by any means our ill intent that, occasionally, build versions differ, but by unfortunate omission.

To add even more context here - The process of publishing the offline installers is automated for the most part, but not yet for all titles. We do plan to fully automate the offline installers publishing for the games that do not support this option currently in the nearest future, which should significantly improve the process.
That is why our Product Team may sometimes miss that a certain title's offline installers are not up to date - it's something we're continuously working on improving so it doesn't happen in the future. If you ever notice something similar, I would suggest reaching out to our Support so they can adjust it. As always, any such feedback is much appreciated!

Apart from the core definition of DRM-free, many of you mention the additional cosmetics for Cyberpunk 2077, accessible after one-time login to GOG GALAXY client (or the REDlauncher for those that purchased the title on other storefronts). We’ve mentioned before in this thread but let me repeat that for good measure - we believe each developer has the right to decide whether they want to give additional incentives, like cosmetics, that do not impact the single-player gameplay. The fact CDPR and GOG are a part of the same group does not change the fact they are the creators of the game, and we are a digital storefront.

In regards to your comments around Hitman and if it comes back to GOG – the game won’t be released as a DRM-free title in the same form as offered back in September 2021. As mentioned in the post, we see that games are evolving, and this led us to write this article about our stance on DRM-free gaming. We didn’t comment on those changes and what kind of influence they may have on GOG’s DRM-free approach.

We understand DRM-free might mean different things to different people, and even this thread shows how many different opinions are there. Some comments we see here, state that the article doesn’t bring anything new – and that was our intention. We don’t want to introduce new policies, we want to reaffirm our commitment to DRM-free games and want you to understand what it means for us.
Ok, you've officially lost me as a customer.

This newspost is what we have been asking for for months and years, and sadly it confirms what we all suspected all along. You are abandoning you core principles and the store will no longer be DRM-free. That's fine, and I will not be commenting or purchasing here anymore, but you could have saved us all, including yourself, a lot of pain and trouble by posting this a looooong time ago. I am now glad I have not bought a single game since the Hitman-catastrophe.

I feel cheated and betrayed by you, having purchased hundreds of games under the pretence of your false promises. But you are, after all, just a business. And like all businesses, money comes before anything else for you.

Good luck, but I fear this will not end well for GOG, and I will no longer take part in it. If I am going to buy DRMed games, there are far better options out there.

Goodbye.
Posted March 19, 2022
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It is quite funny to see people berating GoG for trying to expand their game offer, but at the same time they are vehemently defending GoG selling rape porn.

I guess it is ok only if they do something you are ok with and everything else should be banned.
Posted March 19, 2022
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agogfan: As for deciding whether online play is considered DRM-free or not, one could consider something along the lines of: if my buddy and I want to play the game online together, and I configure my firewall to block all internet traffic other than my buddy's IP, and he does the same on his side with the exception of my IP, and then we are able to succesfully start the game and play it together, then the game is indeed DRM-free. This obviously excludes MMO type games where the game world is hosted on the publisher's servers, but everyone buying those types of games already understands that they're not going to be around forever anyway are thus outside the scope of game preservation. At least it's cured me of my Candy Crush addiction =D
That doesn't have to be true. When a server like that is about to shut down, they could share the software running on their server as well as the world assets (images, 3D models, map design, quests etc). It would be a golden opportunity to sell that server software and world data to end users, under an EULA just like any single-player game, and with only minimal support if any at all (since at that point they're likely already giving up on supporting the game).

That said, it's not necessarily a simple thing to orchestrate. For one thing, there could be a river of legal issues to wade through before that can happen. They might, for example, be obligated to continue support for the client-side part of the game for as long as it's playable, if the EULA doesn't take preservation into account and happens to be written in such a way that that's the legal effect. The most efficient way to get around such legal issues, I think, would be to consider preservation from the outset (when the game is being developed).

Even if they do manage to get to the point where the server software and world data can be released, they might not actually have the legal right (depending on the client-side EULA) to distribute user-generated content en masse. That is arguably still a preservation issue. For example this could include character customization, base designs or clan/community lore. And to the extent they have that right, there's probably a massive amount of user data to distribute and/or sort through, including data from long-gone players. It's likely technically possible to implement a feature that allows each user to download/upload their own data, but depending on how their game is structured that could be extra development work they're not willing to put resources into. And if they allow users to download (let alone upload) that data while the server is still going strong, it could pose a risk they might open up all sorts of opportunities to cheat, so it might have to be activated near the server end of life, while still giving players ample opportunity to use it so they don't miss the opportunity before the data is permanently deleted. Not necessarily a simple addition to coordinate for a company that might not see a real need for it.

There's also the issue that there's only so much time in a player's day, so thoroughly shutting down a game could ultimately be how they quickly get players into new games (if they can overcome the competition) - this is especially true for an MMO, where the game is usually intentionally designed to have a lot of time sunk into it. As anti-consumer as that is, it could easily look more lucrative to those who own the game.

But I think there's a huge amount of goodwill to be had for any company that openly (and in their conduct, rather than mere empty PR statements) chooses to support preservation.
Posted March 19, 2022
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bombardier: It is quite funny to see people berating GoG for trying to expand their game offer, but at the same time they are vehemently defending GoG selling[...]
Huh, despite the intellectually dishonest red herring, you actually stumbled into the area of a very relevant point. Namely, that it is possible for GOG to expand their offerings without going into DRM and DRM-like schemes.

Far too often there is a false choice presented "what do you expect GOG to do, NOT expand?!? They're a BuSinEsS! Therefore, they must expand using DRM."

When, in reality, we know there are DRM-free games that still exist and that GOG can bring here. GOG could exhaust newer DRM-free games, different genre DRM-free games etc without needing to adopt any DRM.

A similar fact of reality is that the passage of time means more and more games will become "old." Some people seem to think GOG has "run out" of old games yet that literally cannot be the case.
Posted March 19, 2022
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I may be veering off-topic, but this line of questioning relates to a DRM-free game. Is CD PROJEKT S.A. / GOG sp. z o.o. open to reconsidering Devotion's inclusion on GOG.com? Or is this not a possibility whatsoever?


I'm not seeking a mea culpa, but please reconsider hosting this game on your store.
Posted March 19, 2022
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elcook: I hear you. While the official recommendation from our Product Team is to contact our Technical Support, I am well aware of the overwhelming backlog they're currently facing and, as a result, extended delays in replies.
Contacting support is still the main channel to use for this type of inquiries. However, pinging someone 'blue' like SmollestLight or our Community Moderators could result in us noticing it faster than Support. You can also try to ping me or Chandra, but I will admit our day to day focus is elsewhere and as such we may miss it. We will try our best not to, though!
"Extended delays": That's an euphemism if there ever was one. I still have unsolved tickets that are years old and never were fixed by GOG (luckily I was able to crreate workarounds and patches by myself and with the help of the community for most of them) and pinging GOG does not change anything (like I said before, especially SmollestLight who you are refering to simply ignored every recent PM I wrote ... still waiting for the reply she primised in the thread about the German version of Blood Omen). The only thing that helped me was pinging a certain community member (you know who you are and I am so thankful for your help) which is so sad that it is hard to even write this down. But THAT is the actual situation of your support. Maybe you should examine this a bit closer because for me right now GOG support simply does not exist anymore and it started to dies when you made the outrageous decision to remove the activities features fom support which listed all tickets created...
Post edited March 19, 2022 by MarkoH01
Posted March 19, 2022
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rjbuffchix: For that matter, Zoom-Platform recently got what I would consider big releases (the kind that attracted me to GOG) such as for example Daymare 1998. I don't see any awkward rationalizations and excuses over there. None of this "our games are DRM-free, but, but but, BUT BUT BUT..." and attempts to say why something clearly functioning as -or equivalent in practical effect to- DRM is supposedly not DRM.
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Gersen: But then again there not a single of those six games containing "optional rewards" on Gog are available on Zoom, and all the games that are both on Zoom and Gog have the exact same level of DRM-free'ness on both platform, including Daymare 1998. The real test would be what would happen if ever one of those games appear on Zoom.
Forgive me for missing your response, I am still catching up on this topic. I would like to clarify I was not trying to imply that Daymare is a game somehow DRMed here but DRM-free there. To my knowledge it is DRM-free on both (and I mean actually DRM-free, not the Outrageous Post's definition of "DRM-free" that paves the way for DRM).

My point in bringing up Daymare was to show it is possible to get at least an AA level release completely DRM-free and that thus there is no need for GOG to weaken (if not outright destroy) their negotiating leverage by being, apparently, so permissive of DRM/DRM-like schemes going forward.

The "real test" you mention is unlikely to happen since that store actually seems to care intently about DRM-free gaming as reality determines it, not as corpo-speak decrees it.

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Gersen: I think it's more "Is it worth to refuse selling an otherwise DRM-free 10-100 hours game because a couple of optional/cosmetic items requires online connection/registration ?"

Gog seems to consider that the answer to this question is no and honestly I tend to agree with them most of the time (Hitman being a notable exception).

Do I like it ? No, definitely not and I am the first one to find incredibly stupid the decision from CDPR to do it for Cyberpunk, but on the other side I prefer to have games like X4, Dying Light, etc... being sold here 99.99% DRM-free rather than not at all.
This is a classic false dilemma though, or at least it was prior to GOG continuing to erode any negotiation leverage they might have with devs/pubs (i.e. upon what basis can GOG now demand a prospective game be DRM-free?). The options do not have to be "accept the game with DRM, or remove it forever." In theory, the games could be fixed to work without DRM. In fact we know this is possible as it has happened. If the dev/pub refuses to fix the games to work DRM-free though then yes I would say for this to be a DRM-free store they should be removed. For this to be a "wishy-washy, customer has to do extensive research to make sure the DRM-free games are DRM-free" store, though, then I guess there is no problem with them remaining as-is.
Posted March 19, 2022
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Regarding 3. The GOG GALAXY client is and will remain optional for accessing single-player offline mode.

Yeah, after killing off the gog downloader and/or offline installers not receiving updates (up to months) after the galaxy build has already been updated I'm not so sure that is going to be the case in the future anymore.

Sometimes we're lucky enough to even get updates, since many devs tend to forget about gog after publishing their games here and you don't seem to care enough to have at least a semblance of parity with other stores. So what happens is your community having to beg the devs on other platforms to update their games here. But that's a completely different issue.
Posted March 19, 2022
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NuffCatnip: Regarding 3. The GOG GALAXY client is and will remain optional for accessing single-player offline mode.

Yeah, after killing off the gog downloader and/or offline installers not receiving updates (up to months) after the galaxy build has already been updated I'm not so sure that is going to be the case in the future anymore.

Sometimes we're lucky enough to even get updates, since many devs tend to forget about gog after publishing their games here and you don't seem to care enough to have at least a semblance of parity with other stores. So what happens is your community having to beg the devs on other platforms to update their games here. But that's a completely different issue.
Related issue: oftentimes the main game is updated but offline DLC installers are not updated at the same time. This means that we have to choose between our existing version+existing DLC installers, or the updated version but no DLC installers (despite the fact in many cases that we paid for them, though even if there are free DLC installers included with the game it shouldn't happen). So not only do we have to beg devs/GOG for parity with the main game but also we need to beg that everything is updated properly. Succubus was an example of a recent game where this happened, according to comments by a long-time customer.
Post edited March 19, 2022 by rjbuffchix
Posted March 19, 2022
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Time4Tea: The only way 'cosmetic rewards' can be done that is consistent with the principles of DRM-free is for them to be provided as separately downloadable DLC packs, that do not require any sort of access control mechanism to be built in to the game.
And there would not be any problem at all doing this. Apparently however CDPR does not want it (for whyatever unexplained reason). Maybe they just don't have the skill to do it? Let's look again at the glitches CP2077 had on release ... yes, I am sure that it is too hard for them to include a few files offline without Galaxy ;)

(The above is meant to be a joke since I absolutely can't see any reason for CDPR - being an independent developer and not part of the digital storefront as it has been told to us by our dear GOG staff here - to force people to use Galaxy for their obviously completely unnecessary content.)

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serpantino: So what possible benefit does it have for them trying to force people to use your 'optional' client through exclusive content then?
That's the big question, isn't it? But how should GOG or GOG staff know about it? Don't forget: they are independent from each other :D

Edit: Yay, downvoted. Makes me wonder if GOG themselves did downvote this time ... would explain why they still refuse to do anything against donvote mobbing here on GOG.
Post edited March 19, 2022 by MarkoH01
Posted March 19, 2022
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How much you all want to bet GOG starts doubling down with stricter moderation in the face of all the criticism and dissent instead of actually listening to the users and the issues being raised in this thread (and elsewhere)?
Posted March 19, 2022
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bombardier: It is quite funny to see people berating GoG for trying to expand their game offer, but at the same time they are vehemently defending GoG selling rape porn.

I guess it is ok only if they do something you are ok with and everything else should be banned.
What games that GOG sells are 'rape porn'
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGOG 2022 update #2: our commitment to DRM-free gaming(543 posts)(543 posts)
(543 posts)