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General discussionGOG 2022 update #2: our commitment to DRM-free gaming(543 posts)(543 posts)
(543 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 17, 2022
Thanks for all the feedback you gave us after the previous update. You’re awesome and it shows the GOG insights piques your interest. Today’s article is about a topic that we know is very important to you – our commitment to DRM-free gaming and what it exactly means.

GOG was built on trust, which is at the very core of our identity. It is evidenced by our 30-day refund policy or releasing games DRM-free, among other things. At the same time, we understand DRM-free might mean different things to different people, especially when modern games blend offline and online experiences.

When GOG first launched, the gaming market looked very different from what it is now – retail was the main place to buy games, and digital distribution was just taking baby steps. DRM, the copy protection software created to protect licenses against unauthorized disc copying, was a huge source of annoyance for gamers often restricting how they can access their content. From the beginning, part of GOG’s mission was to provide gamers with a simple way to access and play games, without the need to fiddle with files or deal with any DRM. Making sure you can play games purchased on GOG offline, make backup copies, and install them as many times as you need is even more relevant now, as things like game preservation become an important topic for the whole industry.

Today, while some of the most infamous DRMs of the past are thankfully long gone, it doesn’t mean the constraints are fully gone. They just have a different, more complex face.

Games are evolving and many titles offer features beyond single-player offline gameplay, like multiplayer, achievements, vanities, rewards. Many such games are already on GOG and will continue to join our catalog. But it also raises the question: is this a new frontier for DRM?

And this is the crux of the matter. Some think it is, some don’t. Some hate it, some don’t mind it. And to be fair, we didn’t comment on it ourselves for quite some time and feel this is the time to do so:

We believe you should have freedom of choice and the right to decide how you use, enjoy, and keep the games you bought. It manifests in three points:
1. The single-player mode has to be accessible offline.

2. Games you bought and downloaded can never be taken from you or altered against your will.

3. The GOG GALAXY client is and will remain optional for accessing single-player offline mode.


We fully commit to all those points. Aside from this, we reaffirm our continuous effort to make games compatible with future OSs and available for you for years to come.

As for multiplayer, achievements, and all that jazz – games with those features belong on GOG. Having said that, we believe that you have the right to make an informed choice about the content that you choose to enjoy and we won’t tell you how and where you can access or store your games. To make it easier to discover titles that include features like multiplayer, unlockable cosmetics, timed events, or user-generated content, we’re adding information about such functionalities on product pages. In short, you’ll always know.

We always took a lot of pride in the freedom we provide gamers. While we know DRM-free may have a different meaning to everyone, we believe you have the right to decide how you use, enjoy, and keep the titles you get on GOG. With games evolving towards adding more online features, we want you to understand our DRM-free approach and what it means to us. It is an important topic – let us know what you think.
Posted March 17, 2022
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GOG.com: We believe you should have freedom of choice and the right to decide how you use, enjoy, and keep the games you bought. ...

... Having said that, we believe that you have the right to make an informed choice about the content that you choose to enjoy and we won’t tell you how and where you can access or store your games.

We always took a lot of pride in the freedom we provide gamers. While we know DRM-free may have a different meaning to everyone, we believe you have the right to decide how you use, enjoy, and keep the titles you get on GOG. ...

It is an important topic – let us know what you think.
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clarry: Ok, I think it's important to address the apparent hypocrisy first. If you really believe you don't tell me how and where I can access my games, if you really believe in freedom, if you really believe I have the right to decide how I use and enjoy and keep my titles, why does your user agreement say the exact opposite?

Let me quote it:

1.3 Also, when we're talking about games, in-game content, virtual items or currency or GOG videos or other content or services which you can purchase or access via GOG services, we’ll just call them “GOG games” or “GOG videos” respectively and when we talk about them all together they are “GOG content”. Simple, eh?

11.1 Please follow these rules regarding the GOG services and GOG content.

(e) Do not create, use, make available and/or distribute cheats, exploits, automation software, robots, bots, mods, hacks, spiders, spyware, cheats, scripts, trainers, extraction tools or other software that interact with or affect GOG services or GOG content in any way (including, without limitation, any unauthorised third party programs that intercept, emulate, or redirect any communication between GOG or its partners and GOG services and/or any unauthorised third party programs that collect information about GOG Services).
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clarry: So you're saying that games here on GOG are "GOG content", and give a bunch of rules regarding how I may (not) interact with GOG content.. in these rules, you disallow creating, using, or distributing scripts, extraction tools, cheats, etcetra that I might want to use to to access and enjoy my games. By these rules, scripts like gogrepo are not allowed. Tools like innoextract are not allowed, tools that scrape info -- such as my library -- from my GOG account (and possibly update it, e.g. to tag games I've finished) are not allowed, cheats are not allowed. Mods are not allowed.

This is very much the opposite of all the freedoms you preach.
Sounds to me like you want to do illegal activity like make copies of games and their content and possibly sell it to other players. The part of their EULA is about criminal activity with GOG content which obviously includes the games they sell as the games themselves are copyrighted.
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carwglas: Literally what do you want them to say? Copy paste the definition from Wikipedia? They outlined 3 basic criteria of what every DRM-free game on GOG is, and everything outside those three points (cosmetics, achievements, in-game events etc.) is optional. GOG finally made a proper statement on something that was being asked of them for years, and you choose to argue semantics. Can't help but laugh!
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Linko64: I'll give you a hand with this one, get you linked in on the point

''The single-player mode has to be accessible offline''

This leaves a fair amount of wriggle room for titles that are barebones unless connecting online... much like Hitman. It was pretty clear that was a point made in the post... hence the question.

When working within DRM-Free circles and comms it would be something that would pop up and needs attetion

No one wants GOG to go down, but you have to address issues, even if it means taking a bruise, the Hitman issue left a lot of distrust and questions. A blanket statement that leaves room for questions doesn't fix that. Hope this makes things clearer.
They took the game down, so what issue is there? And there is no room for questions. Singleplayer = offline mode. Thats what they sell and they wanna stick with that.
Post edited March 17, 2022 by SarahGabriella
Posted March 17, 2022
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GOG.com: 1. The single-player mode has to be accessible offline.
I don't like this wording. This is the kind of definition that allowed Hitman 2016 to be sold as it was. Technically speaking single player was accessible offline, it just wasn't fully functional.
Posted March 17, 2022
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PookaMustard: I appreciate that this piece clears up the whole thing about how GOG defines DRM-free at the moment, right in the middle of the era where one too many game components are highly tied to launchers and servers (which make preservation a bit of a pain in the ass).

But here's the pertinent question.

1. The single-player mode has to be accessible offline.
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PookaMustard: As much as I appreciate this point being included in what makes DRM-free DRM-free, it's vague and open to wild interpretation. Such vagueness will allow games like the new HITMAN from happening again, and again, and again. I'm pretty sure you, GOG staff, would not like to relive that experience as much as I do, if not the whole community at large.

The new Hitman technically had a single player mode, accessible offline, so it satisfied this checkbox on a surface level. But all of the cool stuff (that are accessed and playable in singleplayer, mind you) still required an internet connection. I don't remember the exact details, someone may fill them in better than I do, but even unlocks and rewards weren't accessible until you went online. Again, technically the game was playable offline, but so much of the single player content was still gated off behind online connectivity.

I do appreciate that this was stated loud and clear, and in bold letters to boot, but when I think of that point, I think of Stardew Valley for example. All of the game's vast content is playable in single player and offline. Only the multiplayer and Galaxy stuff requires internet, and if you ignore Galaxy there's almost nothing lost (you can still play online but that's kudos to ConcernedApe for forward thinking and I understand it's not really up to GOG). I don't think of the new Hitman.

Thanks for the update and I hope you take the point I was trying to make into heart.
Its not on GOG to make games with more singleplayer offline content than singleplayer online content, thats on game devs. What GOG is obligated to do is to not let game devs make a lot of singleplayer content require online mode and then put their games on GOG.
Posted March 17, 2022
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SarahGabriella: They took the game down, so what issue is there? And there is no room for questions. Singleplayer = offline mode. Thats what they sell and they wanna stick with that.
The issue is it's exactly that kind of wording that allowed it in the first place. Accessible does not mean the same thing as fully functional or complete. Hitman 2016, as it was temporarily sold here, still meets the definition laid out in this post. The fact that they removed it is nothing if they don't change the policy that allowed such a huge mistake to be made.
Posted March 17, 2022
I'm a little surprised to hear that it's CDPR's enthusiasm for the Galaxy client that led to the locked Cyberpunk cosmetics. They weren't keen enough to finish implementing TW2 achievements for it: https://www.gog.com/forum/the_witcher_2/cant_activate_galaxy_achievements?staff=yes

Re. singleplayer, multiplayer and GOG, here's a thread of possible interest: https://www.gog.com/forum/general_archive/new_gaming_options_followup_survey/page1
Posted March 17, 2022
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Linko64: As a side note, you still don't really make clear what DRM-free is to you, nor is there any real commitment made on the topic... which is partly why the Hitman saga ran on for so long. Skating around problems does not count as addressing them. By your logic with Hitman it was DRM-Free and passable due to the bones of the single-player being offline... when we know that mean's the paying customer (at a high price) was getting very little in return, barely half a game in truth.

I can see the sentiment you're going for, but the wording (all that 'jazz'...?) lacks commitment to a stance and allows a whole load of wiggle room for you.
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Breja: This. Already in this very thread we're being told by a blue that DRMed cosmetics are fine. This was really just a wall of PR that doesn't clarify anything nor does it commit GOG to a clear higher standard. People will want to act like this is some meaningful gesture on GOG's part, but that is simply not the case. How did Superman put it?
Cosmetics are not DRM...yall dont even know anymore what DRM actually is...By your definition of DRM its DRM to even sell games virtually online.
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DoomSooth: Thanks for the update but I think some people will still complain about DRM.

Like now. :) Anything that can be used in singleplayer, even if it has to be obtained online by connecting to Galaxy or wherever once, affects singleplayer. I understand that you didn't want non-Galaxy users to have those items but I didn't like having to use Galaxy to acquire them. Having said that, I don't have a better solution.
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SmollestLight: We understand that there will still be complaints, and that's perfectly fine! Everyone has a right to their own opinion and definition about DRM. However, this is our stance on it.
I never thought i would agree with you but youre right. I think the most complaints are about that Hitman debacle which really wasnt fair from both GOG and the game devs. Shipping some singleplayer content that couldnt be played offline, or online created non multiplayer content that could also not be played offline.

The other reason complaints come in is because the definition of what DRM even is seems to be unclear. Someone seems to suggest that CDPRs Cyberpunk 2077 cosmetics were a form of DRM, which it is not. Its a incentive to get GOG Galaxy, which is a marketing matter, not a DRM one.
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SmollestLight: I understand your concerns, but we leave it up to publishers and developers if they want to give cosmetic rewards as an incentive for something, like signing up for their newsletter or in this case, using GOG GALAXY. While CDPR and GOG are in the same, they are separate companies, and in the end it's up to the developer to decide on the rewards.
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MarkoH01: Yep, seperate companies ... which begs the question why CDPR as a completely seperate company would want to force people to use Galaxy since they ... being a completely seperate company ... would not gain a single thing from it. GOG and those that developed Galaxy on the other hand ... sorry - but this logic does not work for me. If GOG wants to stay as DRM-free as possible they could simply walk up the stairs and ask CDPR ... they did not have any problems to release free DLC for the Witcher 3 back then. I am quite sure that GOG never asked at all and that is my problem I have.
CDPR and CDProject are obviously tied together in such a way as to making something in the game be an incentive to get GOG Galaxy. Yall cant be this dense on this matter. Its a marketing thing for both Galaxy and Cyberpunk 2077. You dont want Galaxy? Dont get the cosmetics...Want the cosmetics? Get GOG Galaxy and then never use it. It should work that way.
Post edited March 17, 2022 by SarahGabriella
Posted March 17, 2022
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SmollestLight: I understand your concerns, but we leave it up to publishers and developers if they want to give cosmetic rewards as an incentive for something, like signing up for their newsletter or in this case, using GOG GALAXY. While CDPR and GOG are in the same, they are separate companies, and in the end it's up to the developer to decide on the rewards.
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mqstout: This violates statement #1 of the original post.

1. The single-player mode has to be accessible offline.
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mqstout: If any parts of the single player mode are inaccessible entirely offline, the single player is not accessible offline. We would really appreciate you stopping from making excuses like this.
Can you play singleplayer offline in Cyberpunk 2077? If the answer is yes then youre wrong.
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§pec†re: Gog could have it as part of their contract to supply changelogs.
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MarkoH01: Right - they could. But the more you force in a contract the harder it is to get it signed and as useful changlogs are I am wondering if those would be worth to lose some contracts/games. Forcing them to update their games on the other hand is a different matter imo.
Yea, i think they have a hard time still with getting some titles, forcing more stuff on devs will just drive them to Steam DRM.
Post edited March 17, 2022 by SarahGabriella
Posted March 17, 2022
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SarahGabriella: Can you play singleplayer offline in Cyberpunk 2077? If the answer is yes then youre wrong.
No, I could not access 100% of the single-player content for CP2077 offline. It's simply not possible because of the DRM. It doesn't matter if some people, like you, don't consider some content not to be content.

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SarahGabriella: Someone seems to suggest that CDPRs Cyberpunk 2077 cosmetics were a form of DRM, which it is not. Its a incentive to get GOG Galaxy, which is a marketing matter, not a DRM one.
Look at someone making yet another attempt at redefining DRM to allow for corporate shenanigans.
Posted March 17, 2022
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joppo: Gog is trying to communicate at least.

One thing I wanna point out however is that actions speak louder than words. If they want to make that message of commitment to DRM-free undeniably clear they could release the Cyberpunk2077 "My Rewards" items DRM-free in a free DLC not bound to Galaxy.

But I am pleasantly surprised by this, so much that I will temporarily suspend my boycotting position.
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SmollestLight: The in-game items received in Cyberpunk 2077 are purely cosmetic and in no way affect the single player experience of the game. However, we’re adding information about such functionalities on product pages. Therefore, you will always know in case a game includes them.
The game page for Stars in Shadow seems to miss important information about requiring Galaxy. You might want to add something like:
"Single-player notice: GOG Galaxy is required to obtain the latest version of the game. The version available via GOG Galaxy is 38803 (12/13/20). The version available via the offline installers is 38774 (08/09/20)."
Post edited March 17, 2022 by mrkgnao
Posted March 17, 2022
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mrkgnao: Absolver
I'd rather they just delist Absolver entirely. It's clearly never going to be salvaged. And they keep trying to pretend like "online requirements to access single player content" are not DRM. We should NOT accept them moving the goalposts with disclosures like this. If it has DRM, get it fixed, or kick it off GOG.
Post edited March 17, 2022 by mqstout
Posted March 17, 2022
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mrkgnao: Absolver
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mqstout: I'd rather they just delist Absolver entirely. It's clearly never going to be salvaged. And they keep trying to pretend like "online requirements" are not DRM.
So would I, but until they do, I see no reason not to point out GOG's approach to things.
Post edited March 17, 2022 by mrkgnao
Posted March 17, 2022
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SarahGabriella: CDPR and CDProject are obviously tied together in such a way as to making something in the game be an incentive to get GOG Galaxy. Yall cant be this dense on this matter. Its a marketing thing for both Galaxy and Cyberpunk 2077. You dont want Galaxy? Dont get the cosmetics...Want the cosmetics? Get GOG Galaxy and then never use it. It should work that way.
You did not read my postings, did you? I already said that I AM using Galaxy and was not that amazed by the cosmetic content anyway. But that is absolutely not the point. The point is that a company that has its main selling point right now (and mostly the only thing that seperates it from much bigger platforms like Steam) in being DRM-Free should do everything possible to avoid said DRM whenever they can. Since GOG and CDPR are tied together (even though SmollestLight tried to explain their decision with the false assumprion that they are not) it is as well a decision they BOTH made and it is a wrong and unnecessary one which makes GOGs agenda a bit unbelievable. I cannot count how often GOG said that Galaxy will always be optional (notice, that they never said, that it will always be optional to play a certain gamne - they said "optional" period) and the more Galaxy is required to get additional experience out of a game the less they stay true to what they said and promised. It puzzles me how somebody could defend this.
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SarahGabriella: Cosmetics are not DRM...yall dont even know anymore what DRM actually is...By your definition of DRM its DRM to even sell games virtually online.
DRM stands for "digital rights management" and I am sorry to break it to you but there is no officially accepted valid for all definition of what this entails exactly. So you should be careful telling others that they are wrong because their understanding is different than your own.
Post edited March 17, 2022 by MarkoH01
Posted March 17, 2022
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Edit: nevermind, responding to anyone here is a waste of time.
Post edited March 17, 2022 by Breja
Posted March 17, 2022
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Warning : half-arsed post.

1) Cosmetic thingies. Not convinced. I'm not really fan of them (in my experience they tend to often clash with a game's style anyway). But they're part of the offline game, and claiming that they are "merely visual" is a weird excuse to DRM them : a lot of a game is purely visual, where's the limit ? Morrowind allows your character to change costumes, but not all costumes affect stats, so, it's "not part of the gameplay" and could be removed ? That's not a criterion. City builders allow you to rotate building with no consequences but visual. Useless luxury, not part of the game ? Multi-sided RTS switch the interface to match the species you're playing, but hey, a barebone grid would work just as well, so players can do without ? That "purely cosmetic" criterion doesn't really justify distinct DRM policies.

2) I installed Galaxy as I restarted using GOG (semi-returning after a long time, I don't have the same expectations anymore, it's like coming back to a different shop with different rules). But before I did, I remember the annoying experience if failing to get an old game to work, contacting customer service, and being asked to try the game through galaxy. I didn't even answer (I was like, okay I see, screw that). But I still keep it in mind as one example of the client being implicitly mandatory. GOG expects you to use it, wishes you to use it, assumes you use it, and if you've got a problem, well, use it. It's clear that little care is put to independent installers and versions. The whole freedom comes at a "if you really must, but then deal with the consequences" cost. It's reluctant, discouraged, and unwelcome. The contrast between "we'll ensure you'll always have the choice" and the nudges is a bit awkward.

Both points could be summarized in a couple of words. But anyway. There. No big deal. But there.
Posted March 17, 2022
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SarahGabriella: Sounds to me like you want to do illegal activity like make copies of games and their content and possibly sell it to other players. The part of their EULA is about criminal activity with GOG content which obviously includes the games they sell as the games themselves are copyrighted.
You seem to have a problem with reading...

"By these rules, scripts like gogrepo are not allowed. Tools like innoextract are not allowed, tools that scrape info -- such as my library -- from my GOG account (and possibly update it, e.g. to tag games I've finished) are not allowed, cheats are not allowed. Mods are not allowed. "

NOTHING mentioned in the post you are replying to could even suggest anything illegal going on. People use gogrepo to download their offline installers and innoextract to extract the installer packages ...

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Breja: Edit: nevermind, responding to anyone here is a waste of time.
Now I feel a bit offended, Breja ;)
Post edited March 17, 2022 by MarkoH01
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Community
General discussionGOG 2022 update #2: our commitment to DRM-free gaming(543 posts)(543 posts)
(543 posts)