It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
I don't even know what to make of Bootpunter's last few pieces of verbal constipation.
low rated
avatar
pmcollectorboy: I don't even know what to make of Bootpunter's last few pieces of verbal constipation.
And that's why you started calling names. Yeah, you are very tolerant person (not).
low rated
avatar
TARFU: So, have we established that BattleTech is racist? Now consider, is racism BattleTech? Compare and contrast in outline format.

I'm joking but seriously, someone please end this thread.
Already? We haven't even talked about global warming yet... OR RELIGION! That's a fun one!
low rated
avatar
GreasyDogMeat: RELIGION!
Wasn't all our talk about religion? I mean, all we talked about were things each of us believe in. Some believe in rational thought, some in liberal values, some in white male privilege and so on.
Post edited May 02, 2018 by LootHunter
At least you have the option to make a white character. There are no asians in the Elder Scrolls series but I don't see anyone boycotting it. You can wield katanas and tantos but can't make an asian character.

I don't think Bethesda is racist because of it though. There is some in-game justification for it and the asians (Akaviri) are apparently extinct - or became vampire lizards or something.
avatar
dtgreene: Also, never use "autistic" (and similar words) as an insult.
Oh for the love of... stop trying to tell people what they should and should not say. The people you're trying to champion for don't care, they're not all fragile snowflakes.
low rated
avatar
dtgreene: Also, never use "autistic" (and similar words) as an insult.
avatar
devoras: Oh for the love of... stop trying to tell people what they should and should not say. The people you're trying to champion for don't care, they're not all fragile snowflakes.
Actually, they are. I mean she really champions not for autists, but for "snowflakes", because it's snowflake reaction (crying "Nooo!" and thowing a tantrum) to things not going their way is what some people call (though quite inaccurately) "autistic screecing".
Post edited May 02, 2018 by LootHunter
low rated
avatar
devoras: Oh for the love of... stop trying to tell people what they should and should not say. The people you're trying to champion for don't care, they're not all fragile snowflakes.
avatar
LootHunter: Actually, they are. I mean she really champions not for autists, but for "snowflakes", because it's snowflake reaction (crying "Nooo!" and thowing a tantrum) to things not going their way is what some people call (though quite inaccurately) "autistic screecing".
The insistence on thought and word policing, the attack on free speech is more offensive than anything someone could say about people with autism.
low rated
avatar
devoras: The insistence on thought and word policing, the attack on free speech is more offensive than anything someone could say about people with autism.
I won't argue with that. I'm just saying that it simply inaccurate to call snoflakes who throw a tantrum autists, because frankly people with autism and aspergers are least likely to be among "social justice" and political correctness supporters.
low rated
avatar
tinyE: OH! There it is, the "sjw"! :P
Weren't we waiting for that. I mean, all the other right-wing imagined reality phrasal vomit is already here. "Political correctness", the "identity politics", the "special snowflake", the "attack helicopter", the "attack on free speech", the "word policing" and of course, the most stupid of it all, the "thought policing".

It was inevitable that it would all lead here, because for pages now a few assholes have been doing nothing besides dehumanizing certain minority groups.

Congratulations, this is exactly the atmosphere in which LootHunter thrives. An utter warning sign that your forum is going to shit.

avatar
devoras: That is what a lot of sjws are trying to do, their ultimate aim. Be wary of attempts to subvert the idea of objective reality, truth, malign reason, to silence free speech and muddy science, to create racial and gender division/ conflict where there doesn't need to be any group conflict. I sensed an attempt with this game to subvert objective reality by not allowing us to choose our gender in reality, and only how our gender is referred to; I still think that was their aim, and I absolutely oppose that. It's hard to overstate the human catastrophe that would occur if the primary importance of reason and free individualism in society is lost to anti-realists and forced compliance collectivists.
And it started with you, all those pages ago. Which is really sad particularly as you have self-diagnosed rather effectively.

You've been trying, for many pages now, to push a false dichotomy on people, contrary to science. You know well that it constituted trolling, and you have exhibited a certain malicious glee in reiterating the false dichotomy several times. You have, contary to the spirit of enlightenment and to reason, failed to listen and understand, although many laudable attempts at an explanation have been made. You have been actively creating division and a distorted reality.

Ask yourself why you did that, you've given the answer already. You need that false dichotomy like air to breathe. You're horrified by the idea that gender isn't binary. You're horrified by the idea that non-binary people actually have a fully formed and healthy self, an identity. You're horrified they're considered people.

In a narrative game, you're unable to relate to characters when their biological sex is not explicitly stated, even though you get to choose a pronoun and could continue to revel in something that is your fantasy anyway: that this means an explicitly stated biological sex.

All the neo-right-wing drivel that you're excreting will not hide that your problem is a lack of literal empathy.

avatar
louitrilobite: This whole thing is rather personal to me, I'm the parent of a transgender child, she's now fifteen and it upsets me to read the ignorance here in this thread, not that I'll be losing sleep as I'm quite used to it now. I've lived with my child for fifteen years and watched her grow, always a few steps ahead of me with me catching up along the way.

It would take me paragraphs to try to explain our journey and my learning.

Gender dysphoria is a thing, get over it, in the same way people had to get over mixed marriages or gay people or what ever bigoted view they had.

But 'they'! in a game as an option in the beginning never to be seen again. If you are offended by that you are ignorant and sorry but bigoted. You can intellectualis it and go on about social constructs and blah blah blah and such, but ultimately if you are a decent person you must let people be what ever or who ever they want to be or are and commend anyone who helps them feel included, like by putting the option of 'they' as a pronoun.
Thank you. Thank you so much. And quoted for truth.

I'd love to read those paragraphs one day.
Post edited May 02, 2018 by Vainamoinen
avatar
devoras: That is what a lot of sjws are trying to do, their ultimate aim. Be wary of attempts to subvert the idea of objective reality, truth, malign reason, to silence free speech and muddy science, to create racial and gender division/ conflict where there doesn't need to be any group conflict. I sensed an attempt with this game to subvert objective reality by not allowing us to choose our gender in reality, and only how our gender is referred to; I still think that was their aim, and I absolutely oppose that. It's hard to overstate the human catastrophe that would occur if the primary importance of reason and free individualism in society is lost to anti-realists and forced compliance collectivists.
avatar
Vainamoinen: You've been trying, for many pages now, to push a false dichotomy on people, contrary to science. You know well that it constituted trolling, and you have exhibited a certain malicious glee in reiterating the false dichotomy several times. You have, contary to the spirit of enlightenment and to reason, failed to listen and understand, although many laudable attempts have been made. You have been actively creating division and distorted reality.
Science will confirm that there are two genders, male and female. Take a random sample of the population and see what their physical characteristics are. I'm confident you'll not find some magical third gender there; it will be males and females, and a rare person that mixes the two genders in different ways. For reference, an example of a third gender might be if we had a gender(let's call it a Fedrale just to make it easier) that implants an egg into a female, then the male fertilizes that egg. Then we would have male, female, and fedrale genders. But we don't have that, we have two. Female carries the eggs, male fertilizes. Pretty simple, really.

Talking about what's real is not considered trolling in any sense I'm aware of; I might as well be talking about the existence of gravity. Would you also consider that to be 'trolling'? I suppose it might be considered trolling if you're unwilling to accept that reality isn't subjective; then I would be pushing my 'gravity' agenda on you. Having a discussion about something isn't creating division and distorted reality. I'm talking about something like pushing sexism where there is none; like the example of the woman trying to say that air conditioning is sexist. Or refusing to have a discussion about a topic and instead try to censor your opponent; that will create division.

avatar
Vainamoinen: Ask yourself why you did that, you've given the answer already. You need that false dichotomy like air to breathe. You're horrified by the idea that gender isn't binary. You're horrified by the idea that non-binary people actually have a fully formed and healthy self, an identity. You're horrified they're considered people.

All the right-wing drivel that you're excreting will not hide that your problem is a lack of literal empathy.
The irony is that I lean more to the left. I support socialism(as it's implemented in Canada), free health care, multiculturalism, I'm happy to pay taxes and have the government provide programs like welfare to people who need it, I support 'normal' immigration(ie. immigration done carefully and with care to integrate immigrants into canadian culture). However the insane push to restrict free speech, tear down reason and individual liberty, to be so intolerant to differing opinions that the opposition is shouted down or threatened with violence for speaking, the resistance to acknowledge objective reality, intentional distortion of what's true(technically the insane postmodernists think truth is a useless concept), forced diversity, the inability to compromise(ie. all relationships are based on power and power alone), the push to destroy western culture that has improved our lives immeasurably and allowed us to advance so quickly; those are all issues that transcend political position, this is the first true threat to civilized society I've ever seen during my lifetime.

Frankly everyone should be standing up in opposition to postmodern sjw radical leftists, regardless of political leaning. I think the only reason they don't is because they don't fully understand what you're trying to do yet. People are waking up though, I only found out earlier this year when I saw protestors/ unethical thugs using borderline violence to try and prevent people from having rational discussions about things they disagreed with at universities; labelling it 'hate speech' when it was anything but.

I'm going to vote for whoever is most likely to stop this nonsense from continuing, even if that means voting for someone I wouldn't normally. Good job.
avatar
devoras: Science will confirm that there are two genders, male and female. Take a random sample of the population and see what their physical characteristics are. I'm confident you'll not find some magical third gender there; it will be males and females, and a rare person that mixes the two genders in different ways. For reference, an example of a third gender might be if we had a gender(let's call it a Fedrale just to make it easier) that implants an egg into a female, then the male fertilizes that egg. Then we would have male, female, and fedrale genders. But we don't have that, we have two. Female carries the eggs, male fertilizes. Pretty simple, really.
The rare person who mixes those two genders is, in fact, of a third (or fourth, or fifth, or n-th (for n > 2) gender. Hence, the rare example that you mention here disproves your point.

It really is not as simple as you're claiming; biology is a very complex subject, and plenty of things can go in ways you wouldn't expect.

(Also, what about people who are infertile, being unable to either carry an egg or fertilize one?)
avatar
devoras: Science will confirm that there are two genders, male and female. Take a random sample of the population and see what their physical characteristics are. I'm confident you'll not find some magical third gender there; it will be males and females, and a rare person that mixes the two genders in different ways. For reference, an example of a third gender might be if we had a gender(let's call it a Fedrale just to make it easier) that implants an egg into a female, then the male fertilizes that egg. Then we would have male, female, and fedrale genders. But we don't have that, we have two. Female carries the eggs, male fertilizes. Pretty simple, really.
avatar
dtgreene: The rare person who mixes those two genders is, in fact, of a third (or fourth, or fifth, or n-th (for n > 2) gender. Hence, the rare example that you mention here disproves your point.

It really is not as simple as you're claiming; biology is a very complex subject, and plenty of things can go in ways you wouldn't expect.

(Also, what about people who are infertile, being unable to either carry an egg or fertilize one?)
You don't need to give each subcategory its own classification. How would you even define what being 9/10 male is? That doesn't create an entirely different gender. Being infertile doesn't matter, you still have the same equipment that's used in the same way.
low rated
avatar
devoras: Science will confirm
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/01/how-science-helps-us-understand-gender-identity/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-new-science-of-sex-and-gender/
http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2016/gender-lines-science-transgender-identity/
https://nomadicecologist.wordpress.com/2017/04/24/no-science-does-not-say-there-are-only-two-genders/
https://erlc.com/resource-library/articles/what-science-really-has-to-say-about-sexuality-and-gender
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/ravishly/neuroscience-proves-what-_b_6494820.html
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/gender-science/201701/three-gender-myths-almost-everyone-believes-shouldn-t
https://www.medicaldaily.com/challenging-gender-identity-biologists-say-gender-expands-across-spectrum-rather-323956

Seems to me you're going to vote for a party that "puts an end" to science.

avatar
devoras: The irony is that I lean more to the left.
The irony is that you think you lean more to the left in a country that actually HAS a left, but still readily pick up far-right to fascist dehumanized enemy concepts like the "SJW". I agree, that is a bitter, bitter irony indeed.

avatar
devoras: I'm going to vote for whoever is most likely to stop this nonsense from continuing, even if that means voting for someone I wouldn't normally. Good job.
"Good job"?

Oh, you mean because someone on an internet forum is advocating philantropy, you're forced to vote for political parties that advocate misantrophy. You mean because science is not at all saying what you desperately want it to, you're forced to vote for parties who regress to false and obsolete science in order to push a misantrophic agenda.

The "good job" part was, of course, extraordinarly silly of you. You attempted to instill a pang of guilt in some really good people here for pushing too hard on this or that basic scientific fact or issuing "too extreme" a call for basic human empathy.

I assure you, the people on an internet forum really don't have that kind of sway over your political opinion, particularly as you don't listen to these people anyway. You would have voted for assholes anyway. "Good job".
Post edited May 02, 2018 by Vainamoinen
You literally just googled 'science gender' and posted the articles on the first page that seemed to support what you wanted. I don't think you even read them, most of them are opinion pieces, not scientific studies, and the one reputable one doesn't say anything about how many genders there are, it just talks about how you can have a female brain in a male body, and explains what transgenderism is. It doesn't say anything about multiple genders.

How about you try to address the statement I posted instead of posting random things you found on the internet that aren't even relevant to the argument.

avatar
devoras: The irony is that I lean more to the left.
avatar
Vainamoinen: The irony is that you think you lean more to the left in a country that actually HAS a left, but still readily pick up far-right to fascist dehumanized enemy concepts like the "SJW". I agree, that is a bitter, bitter irony indeed.
It's because of tactics like these, labelling people fascist(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk) that you will see reasonable people act in opposition to you.

avatar
Vainamoinen: Oh, you mean because someone on an internet forum is advocating philantropy, you're forced to vote for political parties that advocate misantrophy. You mean because science is not at all saying what you desperately want it to, you're forced to vote for parties who regress to false and obsolete science in order to push a misantrophic agenda.
You trying to slip in authoritarianism by disguising it as philantropy is not going to work.
Post edited May 02, 2018 by devoras