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General discussionBattleTech is racist.(383 posts) (383 posts) 
(383 posts) 
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This is my favourite topic
Posted April 26, 2018
This racist/feminism/whatever thing is just getting completely .... ridiculous.

Who cares what race are the pilots?
Is a damn sci-fi world, where all white people are lazy and don't want to die in a mech.

Go play now!
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Socratatus: Ok,

1. White men are NOT responsible for slavery. In history, all Races have been slavers at one point or another. Africans owned and sold slaves to white people. Middle east and Muslim men owned African slaves which they neutered. People have slaved eachother and not just because `race`, but due to war, debt, etc.

Also it was white, Christian men that went hard on ending Slavery in the West.

To blame white people alone is wrong, foolish and stupid. Go educate yourself, please.
I have to agree here.

Is like people believing that the church really burned like 9 millions witches on the stakes.
And that witches were only women.

Just so wrong.

But we are in a world of ignorance. And the ignorant are not ashamed anymore and find strength in numbers behind a screen.
Post edited April 26, 2018 by OldOldGamer
Posted April 26, 2018
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Enebias: I don't want to enter in the merit of the discussion, but scientifically speaking humanity will eventually evolve until we are all dark skinned and with black hair. They are dominant genes, after all, where pale skin and light hair are recessive traits.
Even Asimov in his Foundation made things so, with only very rare colonies that had little interaction with the rest of the species remaining white and blonde.
From a technical standpoint, it stands.

Edit: the premise is that the game is set in the far future.
The genes involved in either skin or hair color are the result of epistasis. They are neither dominant nor recessive. They are a result of multiple genes interacting with each other in complex ways. In fact, if two people of intermediate skin color had children - those children would have possible skin colors ranging from extremely light to extremely dark (see diagram). It's similar for hair as well.

TL;DR Humans in the future will run the gamut of skin and hair colors.
Attachments:
skin_color.gif (34 Kb)
Posted April 26, 2018
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initialpresence: [LOL People who think fascism, deprivation of human rights, nuclear war, rape and incest are bad are so funny]
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Vainamoinen: Let me guess, you guys have both set your home country to "other" because you're wildly ashamed of the raging orange chimp.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lQpjPC-074

EDIT: BTW it's very bad forum etiquette to change what some one posted
For those who didn't read the actual post here it is -
I'm offended by you being offended about me being offended by your offensiveness.
Post edited April 26, 2018 by initialpresence
Posted April 26, 2018
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Enebias: I don't want to enter in the merit of the discussion, but scientifically speaking humanity will eventually evolve until we are all dark skinned and with black hair. They are dominant genes, after all, where pale skin and light hair are recessive traits.
Even Asimov in his Foundation made things so, with only very rare colonies that had little interaction with the rest of the species remaining white and blonde.
From a technical standpoint, it stands.

Edit: the premise is that the game is set in the far future.
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tremere110: The genes involved in either skin or hair color are the result of epistasis. They are neither dominant nor recessive. They are a result of multiple genes interacting with each other in complex ways. In fact, if two people of intermediate skin color had children - those children would have possible skin colors ranging from extremely light to extremely dark (see diagram). It's similar for hair as well.

TL;DR Humans in the future will run the gamut of skin and hair colors.
I HAVE BEEN LIIED TO ALL THIS YEARS!
But seriously, thank you. Glad someone corrected me, I was convinced to have said something smart. :P
Posted April 26, 2018
Farm Simulator is racist against on road vehicles.
Euro Truck Simulator is racist against American trucks.
American Truck Simulator is racist against European trucks.
Jalopy is racist against realistic graphics.
Jade Empire is racist against non-Chinese fables.
Kung Fu Strike is racist against Karate.
Getting Over It is racist against NOT getting over it.
Bubsy is racist against good taste.
Minesweeper is racist against Yoursweeper.
Posted April 26, 2018
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Socratatus: Ok,

1. White men are NOT responsible for slavery. In history, all Races have been slavers at one point or another. Africans owned and sold slaves to white people. Middle east and Muslim men owned African slaves which they neutered. People have slaved eachother and not just because `race`, but due to war, debt, etc.

Also it was white, Christian men that went hard on ending Slavery in the West.

To blame white people alone is wrong, foolish and stupid. Go educate yourself, please.

2. The region of space in the game should not matter at all to whether you get blonde haired people or not, except you`d just see LESS blonde haired people, not NONE at all. Even Aborigine people can have blonde haired children and what about people who just want to DYE their hair bonde? We see many people in the real world who dye their hair blonde such as young Japanese people.

White guys, especially men, you need to stand up and complain when racism\sexism is thrown at you. Stop being guilted by disengenuous people with an agenda against you.

I, as a Black man, can only fight for you so far, but I can`t do anything if you guys don`t fight too.



p.s. Oh and as for those saying that white men are over-represented in the media, this is America, or Europe which is predominantly white. Why don`t you go to Africa or the Middle East or even japan and tell them there should be more white or black people there? No? You just want to pick on the easy-target white man again?
Problem is when white men or women do make and issue they're labeled as nazis or racist. In a Story type game I don't care who's color is what as long as its part of the universe and story lore. In RPGs or in a game with character generation we need options. If Devs are racist and try to push there real world issues onto a game like they did in Mass effect Andromeda, ya I have a slight issue with that. Nothing wrong in have all cultures in a game. I like it. Everybody should have a chance to play whoever they want to play, fat skinny, sexy, ugly.. male, female multi colors lol whatever fits the universe.

Point is its a damn game. We all have enough crap to deal with in RL. Games are means to escape from this world and explore fantasies.

So any Devs for any games pls keep your SJW, personal grips on who and what to yourself. Build a good game pls.

Thanks.
Posted April 26, 2018
I don't know what's the state of affairs nowadays, but in ye olden Battletech source material it was clearly stated that both men and women were considered valid candidates. Clans in particular were full-out meritocratic in that regard, and since they also dabbled in gene-modification, the selection process was concerned with the applicant's abilities and size (though most pilots in Clans were already small), not their gender.

Frankly, I might be mis-remembering (it's been a while since by college years), but I vaguely remember a mention that Aero fighters were dominated by female pilots because they were better suited to to task.

Battle Suit pilots are predominately male, though, especially for the Clans. IIRC something to do with higher muscle strength working better with the suits' feedback mechanism.

I have no idea how the game in question presents it, but I'd assume major unique racial traits to have already been mostly eliminated through mere interbreeding in-universe.
Posted April 26, 2018
The frequency of encountering different ethinc backgrounds in game is roughtly correct to the lore of the game. Different areas of the galaxy have different ratios based on the historical prevalence of certain backgrounds within certain areas. This section just happens to have a relatively diverse mix with white european ancestry being relatively less common but certainly not absent by any means.

The frequency of female leaders and crew is also relatively high in this area for lore based reasons. The periphery neighbors are an egalitarian society and a matriachical society and thus it is expected that you should encounter females a bit more.

The major houses within the inner sphere have their own social customs and ratios of ethnic backgounds. You can also see some of this during character creation by choosing different locations for your family background. It appears that this choice determines to some degree the different portrait options you will have available.

tldr: It is fine. Who you tend to see matches lore.
Post edited April 26, 2018 by SoheiYamabushi
Posted April 27, 2018
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SoheiYamabushi: tldr: It is fine. Who you tend to see matches lore.
Thanks. Always happy when developers do their homework, even if Paradox shenanigans mean I'll wait till this game is seriously discounted.
Posted April 27, 2018
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Socratatus: .
I have trouble believing your claim that you're black. I say this because the argument you're making is the same one I see time and again in other places online, that whites in the West are somehow being persecuted and oppressed horribly. The fact that you think you'll be banned for saying so tells me you're used to this response, telling me this isn't the first time you've posted about the poor white man. Which is why I think you're actually a white man, claiming to be a black man to make your "whites are suffering" argument more palatable. I don't buy it, but ultimately, it doesn't matter.

What bothers me most is the illogic of your whole thread here. If you ACTUALLY cared about racism in games, then you sure as hell wouldn't be complaining of a SINGLE game with no whites. Really, the first game in existence with no whites is RACIST against whites??? I don't think you know what racism is. There are a million games out there where you can only play as white men. So those are racist, right? Why aren't you complaining of those million games, instead on the one game without whites? If you'll make one thread over one game without whites, where are your million threads on the million games with only whites? And what about all the other races rarely if ever represented in games, as if blacks and whites are all that existed?? This is why I don't believe you're being honest. And as someone else pointed out, apparently white women don't count as whites. Way to show you're thinking of others. /s

A further point in passing is your argument about slavery. You take issue with people claiming whites in the West started slavery, telling everyone it's not fair to single whites out for that, but then feel no hypocrisy in claiming white christian men ended slavery. Guess what, white xian men DID start slavery in the West, did own other human beings for centuries, did justify it with the bible, and yes, did finally end it. But ending an evil that you started is hardly a great thing, is it? If I dump toxic waste on your home and property and leave it there for centuries before cleaning it up, am I a great person?

The reason some people complain about negative or absent portrayals of certain demographics in games and other media, is as part of a much larger issue of discrimination and invisibility that that demo is dealing with. It's not an issue in and of itself, but one piece of numerous pieces in the whole. It's media representation AND laws AND education AND prisons AND culture AND violence AND labor AND housing AND so on.... Are whites in the West being targetted for murder in large numbers? Raped? Imprisoned? Discriminated against let alone persecuted or even oppressed? No... not the slightest bit.

Did this game even present whites in a horrible way, using negative and offensive stereotypes? No? Did it add to the public's view that whites are worthless scum that should be exiled or imprisoned or killed? No?? Then no, there's zero racism here.

Now please, spend your time fighting for ACTUAL causes, because there isn't anti-white racism in games. Well, except Othello.
Posted April 27, 2018
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Socratatus: After playing battletech for a while now, I call battletech racist to WHITE people. Your mercenary team are all brown, black asian or a woman. No white man. the only way to get a white man is if you employ him as a Merc or make yourself white in the game.

Racism is racism. As a man of justice and fairness who has known racism this racism to whites sickens me and while Battletech as a tactical and strategy game is really good, the racism is really putting a bad taste in my mouth.
I disagree. Just not having a character of certain race doesn't make a game racist.

Racist game is a game where there is a clear bias of narrative based on race. If, for example, all bad characters are white and all good characters are black - that game IS racist against white. If vicer versa (all bad guys are black) it's racist agains black. Or if among villains only white don't have redeeming qualities (like in Dreamfall Chapters, where white straight male villains are the worst).

P.S. I'm white btw.
Post edited April 27, 2018 by LootHunter
Posted April 27, 2018
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SPOILERS


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LootHunter: Or if among villains only white don't have redeeming qualities (like in Dreamfall Chapters, where white straight male villains are the worst)
In this case, please do list all the "redeeming qualities" of Dreamfall Chapters' villains Utana (dark skinned woman who set up literal concentration/death camps), Mr. London (dark skinned Asian crime lord psychopath) and Commander Vamon (dark skinned sex and power hungry war monger).

If you're still wondering why they booted you from the developer's forum... it's probably because you kept talking about the game without ever having played it.
Post edited April 27, 2018 by Vainamoinen
Posted April 27, 2018
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Vainamoinen: SPOILERS

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LootHunter: Or if among villains only white don't have redeeming qualities (like in Dreamfall Chapters, where white straight male villains are the worst)
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Vainamoinen: In this case, please do list all the "redeeming qualities" of Dreamfall Chapters' villains Utana (dark skinned woman who set up literal concentration/death camps), Mr. London (dark skinned Asian crime lord psychopath) and Commander Vamon (dark skinned sex and power hungry war monger).

If you're still wondering why they booted you from the developer's forum... it's probably because you kept talking about the game without ever having played it.
Utana was actually very compassionate towards Kian. In fact, one could argue if she knew that he would survive. That's her quite positive side.

Vamon is not dark-skinned in the least (despite not being european). In fact he is the prime example of Mr. Tornquist's anti-white male sentiment.

Mr. London probably is the only one who is in the ballpark of "negative non-white" character. Yet all we have of him are two scenes - one, where Zoe has opportunity to stand up to him, shows London having at least some code of honor, as he doesn't order to do anything to her and another scene - London punishing one of his henchmen, apparently for something henchman did, we have no indication his execution is unjustified. Comparing to Vamon, who many times shown disregard for any human (and especially non-human) beings and ready to do everything and kill even closest friends for personal gain, London is rather honorable man. Despite working on white supremasist.

P.S. As for why I was banned from RTG forum I have quite a solid idea. The only thing, I'm curious about is if mods left my comment with Carl Benjamin's (aka Sargon of Akkad) criticism of Anita Sarkeesian or deleted it along with my ban. It was in "women in videogames" thread. Can you look it up?
Post edited April 27, 2018 by LootHunter
Posted April 27, 2018
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LootHunter: The only thing, I'm curious about is if mods left my comment with Cunt Barfvomit's (aka Sadsack of Asshat) monetized harassment of Anita Sarkeesian or deleted it along with my ban.
You have no idea what a redeeming quality is. Hint, it has to do with redemption and genocidal psychopaths don't get any. Vamon is about as white as Jesus Christ. The character has been of that complexion since Dreamfall in 2006 (Vamon, not Jesus Christ). The mafia's perverted idea of justice and honor doesn't make anyone "honorable", and that you're trying this argumentative path is hilarious. And none, not one of these three despicable POC has the all encompassing excuse that only the main white male villain in Dreamfall Chapters gets as the ultimate and actual redeeming quality:

He's_literally_possessed.

So cry me a river with your "racist against white people" bullshit. You're harboring an imbecile grudge just because that game had too many women for you, too many POC, too many gays, I don't know, I don't give a shit.

You've shown a kindergarten level of knowledge concerning the game and its story. You're trying to push a stupid agenda with a case file full of laughable and easily disproven lies. Like that youtube prick. As to whether his exemplary fascist propaganda is still online in the RTG forum, I have no idea, and I'm not going to look it up, because it all bores me to tears. I'm going to say no, all the hateful white supremacist identarian crap is gone, but all your comments are still there, it's just that the mods exchanged the content with something that makes you look like a pedophile.
Post edited April 27, 2018 by Vainamoinen
Posted April 27, 2018
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Vainamoinen: You have no idea what a redeeming quality is. Hint, it has to do with redemption and genocidal psychopaths don't get any.
I have no interest in arguing with LootHunter, and I can't argue about the Dreamfall not having played it, but that statement seems a bit wrong to me, at least if applied to all fiction in general.

I mean, one could easily argue for example Darth Vader to be a genocidal psycho, and yet Return of the Jedi is very much about Vader's redemption. Or we could take Doctor Who and the 50th anniversary special. To end the Time War that is literally tearing apart the universe The War Doctor commits a double genocide killing all the Time Lords and Daleks, a decision that haunts him throughout the series, untill in that special with the help of his future selves he finds a way to redeem himself by saving the Time Lords rather then destroying them.

And there are other, more complicated character arcs I could bring up. So I don't know what's it like with the characters in the Dreamfall, but in general it's not impossible for a character to have some kind of redemption or at least have some redeeming qualities even in extreme cases.
Post edited April 27, 2018 by Breja
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionBattleTech is racist.(383 posts) (383 posts) 
(383 posts)