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ZyloxDragon: Bullet sponge enemies. Enemy A can be taken out with 1 or 2 hits, but Enemy B is 6 levels higher, so it takes him 20 hits even though they both use the same equipment.
There's also the problem of a single level making too much of a difference; some Ys games have that issue, for example.

The reverse of the bullet sponge issue can also be a problem, particularly in RPGs where some abilities (like those that boost stats or inflict status ailments) are only useful in longer battles, so you need enemies that can take enough hits for those abilities to come in useful. Why bother putting enemies to sleep when you can kill them in a single round?

(Random observation: Of the three DS Etrian Odyssey games, the first one has the right amount of boss HP; bosses in EO2 die too quickly (but can also kill you too quickly), while those in EO3 take too long to kill (not to mention the painful boss music which doesn't help matters).)
The "true" last level of Severance Blade of Darkness. For a game with such great level design, it's kind of disappointing that the last level you visit when doing a complete playthough is probably the ugliest and most linear one in the game. Add to that the f*** u level of difficulty of the enemies you find there and it really becomes hard to justify playing it at all.
Post edited February 19, 2020 by samuraigaiden
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ZyloxDragon: Bullet sponge enemies.
I hate that in shooters, especially with human enemies. Especially with bosses, when it takes one well-placed head shot to take out a simple goon, but you can empty 300 chaingun rounds into a supposedly human boss and he's still taunting you... Alpha Protocol is one game guilty of this.
Not sure if mentioned, but in quite many 3D games (e.g. RPGs, FPS etc.) I am quite thrilled at the beginning or the early levels looking at vast outdoors landscapes, loving it roaming around etc.

Then suddenly the game tells me "now enter this cave and spend the next 10-100 hours in some cramped dungeon that looks dark, brown and boring". It is as if the magnificent outdoor sections were a demo and then the real game is in dark dungeons.

Maybe the first Far Cry game was a bit like that, even though it actually did start indoors and there were lots of very nice outdoors levels later too. I just always felt disappointed when I realized I was supposed to enter some indoors facility or something. Far Cry 2 didn't have that problem, I was free to drive around the vast outdoors.
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toxicTom: ...you can empty 300 chaingun rounds into a supposedly human boss and he's still taunting you... Alpha Protocol is one game guilty of this.
OMG...please don't remind me of that...the Russian "bouncy ball" guy...I don't know how they ever could come to the conclusion that was acceptable game design.
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Matewis: Age of Wonders1&2
If you progress far enough in the campaign then your hero essentially becomes too strong. As in, an army killing, city razing demi-god. It applies to, I think, about the latter third or so of the campaigns I played. It's unfortunate because it just sucks the fun right out of the game.
That was the main plus for me, really...
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mqstout: "autobattle" in the games that have their largescale map and battlescale, such as Age of Wonders and Lords of the Realm. autobattle is always nightmarishly bad and ends with tons of casualties for you that you always feel pressure to play out each battle... But, if you do, good luck ever completing a game because you're going to spend all of your time in tactical mode.
I'd say that the main point of a TBS, not to mention a tactics game, is to be in the battles/tactical mode. If an "autobattle" mode exists it's normal for it to be much worse than if you'd be actually, well, playing, it's there just for those who're at a point where they just want to rush to the end and can afford it, in terms of losses, I guess.
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MadalinStroe: The ending to a game should be easier, considering you've spent most of your playthrough getting more powerful. The end game shouldn't be the challenge, building up power should be the challenging part. Games are a power trip, and feeling overwhelmed/weakest after having spent 20-40-60 hours kills a game right at the end.
*nods* Though I guess I can take a nasty final boss, or whatever counts as such, as long as the difficulty up to that point gradually drops as the character(s) improve.
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StingingVelvet: Basically I think endings should be more or less "normal gameplay" with greater narrative thrust, rather than trying to have "epic gameplay!" which more often that not is annoying rather than fun.
That's also a good idea. Some can get the "epic gameplay" right, or right enough, though... And, while still quite rare, those may be more than those who can get an epic narrative right, sadly.
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toxicTom: After building your character with love and blood, sweat and tears - none of that matters when you reach the final boss, because this section is played by completely different rules.

Worst game in this regard so far is Two Worlds 2 (base game), where I got so frustrated I actually cheated in the end just to see the final cut-scene.
Another offender is Risen but at least the final battle there is not very hard once you get the hang of it. Still it's really annoying when a game walks over all your player choices just like that and instead forces you to play in a certain way.
Gothic had the problem that the finale only worked as melee fighter or mage - archers were fucked. But that was simply an oversight (game design bug; over-compensated in Gothic 2 where archery was way to powerful against bosses).
True, but if the character development doesn't matter that much at the end, it may work. The examples you gave of TW2 and Risen may rather fit in there, with those final battles being more like puzzles, and about player rather than character skill. And Gothic had a pile of potions before the end, seem to remember it was pretty much just so archers will be able to make up for the deficiencies and still get though.

On topic:
Age of Wonders: That early timed scenario.
Arcanum: Black Mountain Clan Mines. Plus the fact that companions have a set starting level and if you don't want them to be left lower level you need to find them at the right time.
Bloodlines: The graveyard quest. If you don't have the right character build for it, not a chance, in a game that otherwise aims, and succeeds more than most, to allow for a variety of viable alternatives.
Divine Divinity: The wasteland. They did say they ran out of time for that part of the game, just threw it there, and it shows.
Evil Islands: The end. How's that for a case of what you did (or gathered) before then not mattering? Plus, crap narratively. I mean, who hadn't figured out the "surprise" by then?
Knights of the Old Republic 2: That almost-final part. Sort of similar to the Divine Divinity situation above, but possibly even worse.
Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark: The battle against the Valsharess' army. Losing experience unless you're the one killing enemies, annoying.
Risen: Same as above, only worse, that big battle at the end of chapter 2, with the dozen or so allies and experience obtained only if you land the killing blow, and friendly fire and allies you accidentally hit ending up attacking you, or fighting each other if they accidentally hit each other.
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timppu: Not sure if mentioned, but in quite many 3D games (e.g. RPGs, FPS etc.) I am quite thrilled at the beginning or the early levels looking at vast outdoors landscapes, loving it roaming around etc.

Then suddenly the game tells me "now enter this cave and spend the next 10-100 hours in some cramped dungeon that looks dark, brown and boring". It is as if the magnificent outdoor sections were a demo and then the real game is in dark dungeons.
How about Exile/Avernum, where the game starts you off in a cave, with the eventual goal to escape to the surface?
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timppu: Not sure if mentioned, but in quite many 3D games (e.g. RPGs, FPS etc.) I am quite thrilled at the beginning or the early levels looking at vast outdoors landscapes, loving it roaming around etc.

Then suddenly the game tells me "now enter this cave and spend the next 10-100 hours in some cramped dungeon that looks dark, brown and boring". It is as if the magnificent outdoor sections were a demo and then the real game is in dark dungeons.

Maybe the first Far Cry game was a bit like that, even though it actually did start indoors and there were lots of very nice outdoors levels later too. I just always felt disappointed when I realized I was supposed to enter some indoors facility or something. Far Cry 2 didn't have that problem, I was free to drive around the vast outdoors.
I find that the reverse is also annoying, when you don't get into the vast outdoor locations until you get through a dungeon first. In particular, Arena, Daggerfall, and Oblivion all have this issue, and the result is that the start of the game is not as good as the rest (though in Daggerfall there's at least a way to skip the starting dungeon).

I also don't like it when the game doesn't give you free access to a town at the start.

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mqstout: "autobattle" in the games that have their largescale map and battlescale, such as Age of Wonders and Lords of the Realm. autobattle is always nightmarishly bad and ends with tons of casualties for you that you always feel pressure to play out each battle... But, if you do, good luck ever completing a game because you're going to spend all of your time in tactical mode.
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Cavalary: I'd say that the main point of a TBS, not to mention a tactics game, is to be in the battles/tactical mode. If an "autobattle" mode exists it's normal for it to be much worse than if you'd be actually, well, playing, it's there just for those who're at a point where they just want to rush to the end and can afford it, in terms of losses, I guess.
I think that autobattle modes work best when they're simple, and avoid wasting resources or using complex strategies. In particular, there should be a basic autobattle mode where characters will only charge and attack the enemies, or perhaps a setting that makes the character avoid combat; fancier setups, if present, shouldn't be the only option. (In particular, the basic autobattle setting shouldn't have characters use resources, and shouldn't have party members use area attacks that could hit other party members.)

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toxicTom: After building your character with love and blood, sweat and tears - none of that matters when you reach the final boss, because this section is played by completely different rules.
This is also an issue I have with insta-fail stealth segments in Zelda games; all those heart containers you've spent the game (so far) collecting mean nothing.

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timppu: Not sure if mentioned, but in quite many 3D games (e.g. RPGs, FPS etc.) I am quite thrilled at the beginning or the early levels looking at vast outdoors landscapes, loving it roaming around etc.

Then suddenly the game tells me "now enter this cave and spend the next 10-100 hours in some cramped dungeon that looks dark, brown and boring". It is as if the magnificent outdoor sections were a demo and then the real game is in dark dungeons.
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Darvond: How about Exile/Avernum, where the game starts you off in a cave, with the eventual goal to escape to the surface?
The cave in these games isn't cramped, though. Notice how open much of the map is?

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Cavalary: Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark: The battle against the Valsharess' army. Losing experience unless you're the one killing enemies, annoying.
Risen: Same as above, only worse, that big battle at the end of chapter 2, with the dozen or so allies and experience obtained only if you land the killing blow, and friendly fire and allies you accidentally hit ending up attacking you, or fighting each other if they accidentally hit each other.
That reminds me of another one:
Disgaea: The fact that only the character who lands the killing blow gets any experience, which make it annoying to level up clerics, for example. (The sequels partially addressed this issue, but experience from healing gets irrelevant after around level 20 or so (in a game where the level cap is 9999).)
Post edited February 20, 2020 by dtgreene
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Cavalary: True, but if the character development doesn't matter that much at the end, it may work. The examples you gave of TW2 and Risen may rather fit in there, with those final battles being more like puzzles, and about player rather than character skill.
The problem in TW2 is that they completely ignore their own game system. The final enemy is a dragon which breathes fire and summons fire elementals in between. And you can neither hit the dragon with your bow or spells, no matter how much effort you spent leveling those up - you have to use those clunky ballistas - nor does your fire resistance (which can be over 100%) count shit, it's simply ignored.

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Cavalary: And Gothic had a pile of potions before the end, seem to remember it was pretty much just so archers will be able to make up for the deficiencies and still get though.
No, because to defeat the sleeper you had to use a special rune. This rune could be either used directly (if you were a mage) or set into a sword. If you focused on archery you could neither use the rune nor the sword and so couldn't defeat the boss at all.
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Cavalary: Bloodlines: The graveyard quest. If you don't have the right character build for it, not a chance, in a game that otherwise aims, and succeeds more than most, to allow for a variety of viable alternatives.
Well there is an alternative: Let Romero do it for you and pay him off with "relaxation". If you play a female character you can provide this yourself, or you have to get one of the working girls for him which requires speech skills (or Domination).
The rewards are AFAIK the same: gun training and XP.
Post edited February 20, 2020 by toxicTom
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timppu: Not sure if mentioned, but in quite many 3D games (e.g. RPGs, FPS etc.) I am quite thrilled at the beginning or the early levels looking at vast outdoors landscapes, loving it roaming around etc.

Then suddenly the game tells me "now enter this cave and spend the next 10-100 hours in some cramped dungeon that looks dark, brown and boring". It is as if the magnificent outdoor sections were a demo and then the real game is in dark dungeons.
In most cases outdoor starting section is indeed "a demo" meant to lure you in. And in the rest of the game devs cut costs.

Speaking of Far Cry. I personally liked Far Cry 5, but the story and especially ending was a huge letdown.
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dtgreene: This is also an issue I have with insta-fail stealth segments in Zelda games; all those heart containers you've spent the game (so far) collecting mean nothing.
Insta-fail always feels like shitty design (unless the game is "one hit death" anyway). No matter if it's a stealth section, deadly traps or enemies that will always one-hit-kill you, no matter how strong you are. Feels like the game is cheating...

Regarding stealth: there is a reason why proper stealth games have various alertness levels - you are warned that you're arousing suspicion and can go quickly into hiding again. And often even if you're spotted by a lonely guard you can try to (silently) take them out before they can raise alarm.
Related to my earlier "open outdoor sections turn into crawling in cramped dungeons indoors", another one I've mentioned somewhere before are the "special missions" in many RTS games.

Starcraft is the easiest example of that. I love the normal base-building missions in the campaigns, and dislike those special missions where you don't have a base but have to wander through some long level with a set number of units doing some special shit. I just wish to skip those special missions.

I presume the meaning is to add some variance to the gameplay, but it doesn't work if I am not really wishing for such variance. I play a base-building RTS game for the base-building RTS gameplay.

Yeah yeah, there are also those old classic examples of silly action sequences in some old point&click adventure games, like Heart of China IIRC. I guess the main point is "don't deviate from the base gameplay just because", the same others have mentioned with shooter games suddenly having some level with sneaking only etc.
Post edited February 20, 2020 by timppu
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Cavalary: True, but if the character development doesn't matter that much at the end, it may work. The examples you gave of TW2 and Risen may rather fit in there, with those final battles being more like puzzles, and about player rather than character skill.
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toxicTom: The problem in TW2 is that they completely ignore their own game system. The final enemy is a dragon which breathes fire and summons fire elementals in between. And you can neither hit the dragon with your bow or spells, no matter how much effort you spent leveling those up - you have to use those clunky ballistas - nor does your fire resistance (which can be over 100%) count shit, it's simply ignored.
Makes me think of the dragon fight in the Nintendo DS Fighting Fantasy game. IIRC, you have to fight a flying dragon, which only occasionally comes into range to be hit, and I remember its fire breath being instant death (in a game with RPG-like progression, so you normally get more health by leveling up), at least unless you use the spell that causes attacks to damage your MP instead of HP (and even that might only give you 1 extra hit).

Incidentally, that game also had an annoying bug: If your choices at the start would make you a mage, you don't get any MP on level up. If you want to play a mage without the bug, you need to make choices that start you off with a different class, then customize your character at the end.

(Also, there's the issue of the player character making male grunts when gender does not otherwise come into play (it's third person and there game never uses gendered terms to refer to you, and you don't have a name IIRC).)

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dtgreene: This is also an issue I have with insta-fail stealth segments in Zelda games; all those heart containers you've spent the game (so far) collecting mean nothing.
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toxicTom: Insta-fail always feels like shitty design (unless the game is "one hit death" anyway). No matter if it's a stealth section, deadly traps or enemies that will always one-hit-kill you, no matter how strong you are. Feels like the game is cheating...

Regarding stealth: there is a reason why proper stealth games have various alertness levels - you are warned that you're arousing suspicion and can go quickly into hiding again. And often even if you're spotted by a lonely guard you can try to (silently) take them out before they can raise alarm.
Also, my understanding is that proper stealth games aren't generally insta-fail when you get caught, but rather there is a chance of being able to escape or even fight the guards to stay alive.

Metroid: Zero Mission's stealth section is much better than those in most modern Zelda games because it's not insta-fail; getting seen will send space pirates after you, which can be stunned with you gun, and will close certain gates blocking progress, but if you find a safe spot you can let the alarm run out, which is much more fair than how Zelda games handle it. (With that said, it can still be a challenge on hard mode, but it's not insta-fail unless you haven't collected that many e-tanks, and even then you still need to actually get hit and not just seen.)

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timppu: I presume the meaning is to add some variance to the gameplay, but it doesn't work if I am not really wishing for such variance. I play a base-building RTS game for the base-building RTS gameplay.

Yeah yeah, there are also those old classic examples of silly action sequences in some old point&click adventure games, like Heart of China IIRC. I guess the main point is "don't deviate from the base gameplay just because", the same others have mentioned with shooter games suddenly having some level with sneaking only etc.
I agree with this point.

As I have mentioned before, this also creates accessibility issues. A game that would otherwise be accessible to a given player can be rendered inaccessible because of one part that changes the gameplay. (My favorite example being real-time segments in turn-based games, but one could probably think of other examples.)

(Also, Zelda games, which I've complained about stealth in, are not shooter games.)
Post edited February 20, 2020 by dtgreene
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timppu: Related to my earlier "open outdoor sections turn into crawling in cramped dungeons indoors", another one I've mentioned somewhere before are the "special missions" in many RTS games.

Starcraft is the easiest example of that. I love the normal base-building missions in the campaigns, and dislike those special missions where you don't have a base but have to wander through some long level with a set number of units doing some special shit. I just wish to skip those special missions.
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That's usually hit or miss for me. I love all the indoor special missions in Starcraft, but can't really stand the special outdoor missions. Weirdly it's the other way round in C&C and C&C:Red Alert. The commando outdoor mission in C&C was incredible, as were the Tanya missions in C&C:RA, but those infernal indoor missions were almost unbearable.

Warcraft 3 tends to do the special missions the best, in that the content in those levels are unusually dense. There are tons of secrets and powerful items to be found. Perhaps it's not that surprising for WC3, seeing as originally it was developed as a (C?)RPG
The first part of Serious Sam 3 (the 5 levels before the Sphinx level) drags on a little too much. If it was 1 or 2 levels shorter, the beginning wouldn't feel so slow. Generic Egyptian city streets can get old quickly.

The rest of the game though... A+
Post edited February 20, 2020 by idbeholdME