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General discussionArmello DRM-Free Edition now available on GOG!(531 posts)(531 posts)
(531 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted August 30, 2016
Becoming a slightly different beast.

<span class="bold">Armello</span>, the digital tabletop/role-playing/strategy game, has now been updated and renamed to Armello - DRM Free Edition. It includes the latest fixes and updates, plus all these lovely animals who will eagerly stab each other with pointy things in order to become rulers of the land. Oh, and it's 25% off for six days!

This edition is a complete strategic experience and will keep receiving updates that are unrelated to DLCs or online features.

Here's what League of Geeks have to say about it (full version <span class="bold">here</span>):

"We want to ensure that whatever platforms Armello is on, we're providing the best experience that we possibly can. As Armello moves more and more into online services (like Steam inventory and more multiplayer features) and as we begin to roll out our plans for DLC, we've been working closely with GOG on an edition of Armello specific to GOG. [..]
We've had fantastic meetings with GOG about the future of Armello on the platform and although there's no way for us to provide DLC for DRM-Free users or to attempt to retain parity with the Steam version of Armello, Armello DRM-Free Edition will see features that best suit a DRM Free experience. [...]."

Get ready to join this new era of colorful animosity with <span class="bold">Armello DRM-Free Edition</span>, exclusively on GOG.com.
The 25% discount will last until September 5, 9:59 PM UTC.


https://www.youtube.com/embed/o4e5s28x7Ps
Post edited August 31, 2016 by maladr0Id
Posted September 11, 2016
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Fairfox: I notice teh devs be locking threads and threatening bans on teh Steamie forums, and no doubt remaining tight-lipped here/hiding. Such pee-poor behavior I hopes they never get another game on GOGie.
Maybe have some high profile youtuber like TB to cover it, and see if they get a DMCA/forced Takedown claim.
Posted September 12, 2016
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MIK0: The only hope is to make it reach the news everytime something similar happens. Unfortunately something like this doesn't even reach the front page of GOG and when it does is worded in misleading ways.
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Vainamoinen: Sure, developers are moved by outrage, but it really doesn't seem the fair way to me. Particularly not for indie developers (a good anti-Valve or anti-Apple outrage I'll take most days :p ).

And the wishlist entry, well, it seems like a good bit of an overreaction to me. There have been more blatant examples of DRM free neglect from much more popular developers before (as Radon has shown), but as Catnip stated, none of them generated this kind of reaction. And I do wish all that could be toned down. The developer HAS received the message without doubt (though it's hardly a coherent one).

I admit though, the "selfies on mars" / "infinite resources" crap really took the cake with a vengeance. Not even Electronic Arts would have risked that. :)
Actually I'm not talking about dev only but GOG as well. It's a thing that should make them react as they usually hide behind a good reputation they really don't have anymore as it is fake or fabricated hiding important issue and wording news in a way to appeal while concealing the true meaning. Most issues on GOG start and end in the forum, they are rarely solved but left as they are hoping people stop talking about it and usually that's what happens when you see that there's little consideration from the other party. It's not a collaboration. So if the issue can somehow escape the forum boundaries and make it to the news, I believe it's a good things for everybody.
Post edited September 12, 2016 by MIK0
Posted September 12, 2016
looks like gog stopped responding as well this is kinda reminding me of how we lost revolt and never got it back properly
Posted September 12, 2016
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liquidsnakehpks: looks like gog stopped responding as well this is kinda reminding me of how we lost revolt and never got it back properly
Well it's not that GOG was constantly present. They barely reported the official statement (in the forum, not in the news) and then silence again.
Posted September 12, 2016
high rated
I don't have any strong feelings either way about this video game, however it doesn't look like anything I'd be personally interested in.

What does bother me however, is not the fact that they made a "light" or "reduced" version of the game and decided to sell it here, but the fact that they (or whoever made the decision) decided that the label that should be used to describe this "dumbed down" version should be "DRM-free Edition". It's almost insulting to what the concept and ideology of what "DRM-free" means to some people, hijacking the term and what it actually means and using it as a substitute catch phrase to mean "dumbed down" twisted with a positive spin.

If they had called it "Armello Light Edition" or "Armello Value Edition" or some other name that is reflective of what it actually is, that would have been a different matter altogether. The issue of the GOG version being neutered would still stand and be valid and for people to be upset about, but at least the term "DRM-free" would not be being used as if it was a positive marketing tactic to make people think it is somehow better when it is actually somewhat worse being neutered as it is.

This isn't just toying with words either. Words matter. As it stands now, lots of people abuse the term "DRM" to mean all sorts of things that it isn't that they self-designate it to mean based on their own opinions as if they were an authority on such matters, so it is difficult enough to talk about DRM related matters to begin with.

If we allow game publishers to give dumbed down versions of their games and label them the "DRM-free Edition" as some positive marketing badge, and gamers associate a negative to that, then instead of it putting a negative on the individual games or game developers that engage in this practice what it actually does is appropriate the term "DRM-free" to mean "dumbed down game being sold with a positive marketing spin" and something to be avoided.

Do we want people out there who aren't as aware of what DRM-free really means to think it means "version of a game to avoid like the plague, buy it on Steam instead"? And by extension of that, with GOG being known as a DRM-free store, do we want that twisted definition of what DRM-free means to be contorted to have people that don't know any better think DRM-free stores only sell neutered games?

I think not.

Publishers: Do not call your neutered games the "DRM-Free Edition" it is an insult to what DRM-free means, and an insult to gamers who care about this.

GOG: Do not allow publishers to use the term "DRM-free" in the title of their games for any reason whatsoever. Every game in this store is DRM-free and there is no reason to put it in the title for marketing purposes, especially if it appears the term is being used to fluff up the game in a positive way when it is actually a lesser version of the game.

Nobody can know for sure whether it was the publisher or GOG or someone else who decided to put "DRM-Free Edition" in the title of this game, but it was a very bad decision in my mind anyway and I hope that all parties learn from this and never do it again. Do not allow people to misuse the term DRM-free for their own purposes as marketing propaganda. It is a term that means something to us and should not be subverted, twisted or used to coerce or con people into thinking some game is better than it is.
Post edited September 12, 2016 by skeletonbow
Posted September 12, 2016
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skeletonbow: I don't have any strong feelings either way about this video game, however it doesn't look like anything I'd be personally interested in.

What does bother me however, is not the fact that they made a "light" or "reduced" version of the game and decided to sell it here, but the fact that they (or whoever made the decision) decided that the label that should be used to describe this "dumbed down" version should be "DRM-free Edition". It's almost insulting to what the concept and ideology of what "DRM-free" means to some people, hijacking the term and what it actually means and using it as a substitute catch phrase to mean "dumbed down" twisted with a positive spin.

If they had called it "Armello Light Edition" or "Armello Value Edition" or some other name that is reflective of what it actually is, that would have been a different matter altogether. The issue of the GOG version being neutered would still stand and be valid and for people to be upset about, but at least the term "DRM-free" would not be being used as if it was a positive marketing tactic to make people think it is somehow better when it is actually somewhat worse being neutered as it is.

This isn't just toying with words either. Words matter. As it stands now, lots of people abuse the term "DRM" to mean all sorts of things that it isn't that they self-designate it to mean based on their own opinions as if they were an authority on such matters, so it is difficult enough to talk about DRM related matters to begin with.

If we allow game publishers to give dumbed down versions of their games and label them the "DRM-free Edition" as some positive marketing badge, and gamers associate a negative to that, then instead of it putting a negative on the individual games or game developers that engage in this practice what it actually does is appropriate the term "DRM-free" to mean "dumbed down game being sold with a positive marketing spin" and something to be avoided.

Do we want people out there who aren't as aware of what DRM-free really means to think it means "version of a game to avoid like the plague, buy it on Steam instead"? And by extension of that, with GOG being known as a DRM-free store, do we want that twisted definition of what DRM-free means to be contorted to have people that don't know any better think DRM-free stores only sell neutered games?

I think not.

Publishers: Do not call your neutered games the "DRM-Free Edition" it is an insult to what DRM-free means, and an insult to gamers who care about this.

GOG: Do not allow publishers to use the term "DRM-free" in the title of their games for any reason whatsoever. Every game in this store is DRM-free and there is no reason to put it in the title for marketing purposes, especially if it appears the term is being used to fluff up the game in a positive way when it is actually a lesser version of the game.

Nobody can know for sure whether it was the publisher or GOG or someone else who decided to put "DRM-Free Edition" in the title of this game, but it was a very bad decision in my mind anyway and I hope that all parties learn from this and never do it again. Do not allow people to misuse the term DRM-free for their own purposes as marketing propaganda. It is a term that means something to us and should not be subverted, twisted or used to coerce or con people into thinking some game is better than it is.
I agree. Regardless the game (someday that could happen to a game you care about, so better support others on the same matter) this will be an issue in the future.

GOG has an history in changing word's meaning so I believe they are not entirely stranger to the naming of this version of the game. As you suggest GOG should avoid the shady behavior of bending the truth and work toward providing its users with a faithful representation of reality and good products in their interest. Customers cannot be always the last concern.

About Armello, I suggest Armello "We changed our mind" Edition or "Interrupted support" Edition
DRM-free is implicit in the use of GOG, it's the last of GOG pillars (the others unfortunately was demolished long ago by GOG itself), so should never be used to refer to a game in the store.
Posted September 12, 2016
I hope they are negotiating or at least considering setting a example by dropping this game, Something tells me things are not as it would seem , the Disney releases were a sham with such high costs for those 3 games.

Titan quest was released here but steam got the better deal of it with a nice sale and free for previous users....

Maybe getting old games drm free is starting to be hard for them to do than spamming new releases and early access games ?

*looks at the snake that is growing up slowly called gog galaxy....
Wonder what percentage of the people opted for the refund gog offered ...
Post edited September 12, 2016 by liquidsnakehpks
Posted September 12, 2016
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MIK0: ...
About Armello, I suggest Armello "We changed our mind" Edition or "Interrupted support" Edition
DRM-free is implicit in the use of GOG, it's the last of GOG pillars (the others unfortunately was demolished long ago by GOG itself), so should never be used to refer to a game in the store.
In the case of Armello, the GOG releaes was post-facto to their original release and so a neutral name like "Armello Basic Edition" or similar would be reasonable, or some other neutral word substituting for Basic, but which clearly lets people know it is different somehow without making it seem like it is superior, but they don't have to use a negative word to scare people away from it either - just a neutral and honest word.

If a company was doing a 0-day release across platforms and wanted to do something like this instead of struggling to avoid a negative on the "lesser" version of a game they could call the lesser version just the base game name, and call all full blown versions that have extra features not present in the basic version "Special Edition" or similar, at least in terms of marketing without using negatives. That would be better than treating their potential customers as idiots by appropriating terms the customer find positive and/or endearing to market it to them.

I'd have to frown on the entire practice of shipping different versions of games like this altogether though. If a game company is incapable of making one version of their game available everywhere with a reasonably equal set of capabilities that are technically able to exist, then they should pack up shop and go get jobs at McDonalds flipping burgers rather than resorting to marketing gimmicks to upsell their neutered game versions.
Posted September 12, 2016
Btw i was looking at their forums and read about the multiplayer on the gog version :O has that been neutered as well compared to the drm version ?? can anyone make sense of this ??

http://leagueofgeeks.com/forums/index.php?topic=1785.0

''
Unfortunately the DRM-Free version's multiplayer is kind of broken. After buying the GoG version, all you can do is create or join rooms using codes (it's not crossplay compatible). You can't play with people online like Steam. If I had known this, I'd purchase the Steam version instead so I can play with my friends. Didn't think it would of had a stripped/modified multiplayer functionality. =/

''

''
The multiplayer options if you aren't on Steam is simply not good enough. I should be able to find more players, and the options in the GOG release are lacking. Is there ever going to be an option to find games, or are Room Codes the norm. How do I find room codes in what is a relatively small community?
I love the game, but playing against AI got boring pretty quickly.
''

How come this stripped multiplayer functionality is not mentioned on the store page ??

They might be old posts but i hope that is not the case of multiplayer for this game :\
Post edited September 12, 2016 by liquidsnakehpks
Posted September 12, 2016
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skeletonbow: Publishers: Do not call your neutered games the "DRM-Free Edition" it is an insult to what DRM-free means, and an insult to gamers who care about this.
How about "Armello: Good News™ Edition"? ;)
Posted September 12, 2016
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ncameron: How about "Armello: Good News™ Edition"? ;)
They could go with self-deprecating humour for probably the best results.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/249990/

Maybe... "Armello: Slightly Worse Edition"

One of Monty Python's albums was called "The Complete Ripoff Album" or something like that IIRC.
Posted September 14, 2016
high rated
I never expected this but the wishlist entry passed 500 votes: https://www.gog.com/wishlist/games/remove_armello_drm_free_edition_from_the_catalog_please
Posted September 14, 2016
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skeletonbow: If a game company is incapable of making one version of their game available everywhere with a reasonably equal set of capabilities that are technically able to exist, then they should pack up shop and go get jobs at McDonalds flipping burgers rather than resorting to marketing gimmicks to upsell their neutered game versions.
QFT.
Posted September 15, 2016
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skeletonbow: Publishers: Do not call your neutered games the "DRM-Free Edition" it is an insult to what DRM-free means, and an insult to gamers who care about this.
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ncameron: How about "Armello: Good News™ Edition"? ;)
DLC-Free edition.
Posted September 16, 2016
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Vainamoinen: And the wishlist entry, well, it seems like a good bit of an overreaction to me. There have been more blatant examples of DRM free neglect from much more popular developers before (as Radon has shown), but as Catnip stated, none of them generated this kind of reaction. And I do wish all that could be toned down. The developer HAS received the message without doubt (though it's hardly a coherent one).
I agree. I think the warning on the gamecard that DLCs won't be coming here in the future might prevent future buyers from making an uninformed purchase (though I'm not sure the warning is easy enough to see in the description, but if they have enough unhappy buyers they'll probably change the location on the gamecard). I'd also see a drop in price favorably, as this version is not a fully supported version by the developper.

Removing the game from the store? I don't agree for two reasons. The first, there might be players out there who actually really would like to play this game (even in a "gimped" state), the game is in a playable state*. It might be a genre they really dig, and it'd actually give them hours of enjoyment. Second reason is I'm not sure what type of message it sends to developers. Let's be clear I don't want to defend League of Geeks and the way they managed their game here. If I hadn't already bought the game I would not be buying it (and I expect Gogerinos/nas to give information about this fabulous edition to anyone saying they are contemplating buying this game here). But it seems overly hostile to ask for a game to be removed when it's actually in a playable state*.

As for those wondering if there were people who didn't ask for a refund and why. Well I didn't (though I almost did at one point). The reasons for not refunding being that when I bought the game I was not sure I'd actually dig it. I saw a video TotalBiscuit made on the game and thought it looked interesting. When I saw it appear here I thought I'd encourage an indie dev and buy it full price with the knowledge it might not be my cup of tea and without knowledge of future plans for new content. I also knew I'd play it singleplayer only. I bought the game as is. The thing that made me consider a refund was the cavalier way one of the dev handwaved the GOG userbase by saying they'd rather give refunds than deal with any concerns / feedback from this community (or Steam's) about this subject. If you don't care enough about the money I give you I'd rather give it to another dev with more respect for their userbase. Then I remembered it was one dev on a team, and though he represents them, he might not be saying what all of them are actually thinking. So I'm not refunding... yet.

The thing that would make me reconsider yet again is if the game is actually unplayable for me. I played it one time, it didn't grab me, but for the life of me I can't remember if the reason I stopped playing was me closing the game or if it crashed (hence the * in the paragraph above). That would make me ask for a refund, after going through GOG's support to be sure there was nothing that could be done.

Then again it's not like I actually want to fire up the game of a dev that is so contemptuous with their fanbase. *shrug* I might not play this for a frigging long time.
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General discussionArmello DRM-Free Edition now available on GOG!(531 posts)(531 posts)
(531 posts)