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General discussionAre you about to buy an AMD Ryzen based desktop?(67 posts)(67 posts)
(67 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 09, 2020
You gonna try and 'bot' the launch ;)
I probably will, but they are starting to price like intel so if there's scalping and no supplies I'll wait for a decent laptop variant that uses a desktop grade chip.
Yes I know that gimps overall performance, but a portable device with decent battery backup is 'so' much better for my use case.
A solid state laptop will last the hour travel to a mates house to lan without needing to be shut off, can be moved between house locations easily or even just out into the yard where i can relax in a hammock.
it's low profile so i can put it behind a large television to upgrade it to a truly smart device as I need to & not as a permanent installment.
I can use it as a DM screen when roleplaying so I have all my notes organised and handy with my char gen progs accessible.
As far as small & light systems go I'm really waiting for what the intel vs amd apu battle is going to be like; because one or the others going to be discounted to be competitive in that market instead of trying to maintain the status quo of overcharging for incremental increase.
I mean everyone can see how it'll play out AMD will say ours is superior overall we'll charge a high price and intel will say well ours is actually over 5.3ghz so they won't budge on price and in the end it'll just be consumers losing out where it should be healthy competition driving prices back down to it's realistic market valuation.
Lets face it; it doesn't cost AMD as much to make a chip as intel it's a simple question of die's per wafer & intels been overcharging for years.
Posted October 09, 2020
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MaceyNeil: You gonna try and 'bot' the launch ;)
I probably will, but they are starting to price like intel so if there's scalping and no supplies I'll wait for a decent laptop variant that uses a desktop grade chip.
Yes I know that gimps overall performance, but a portable device with decent battery backup is 'so' much better for my use case.
A solid state laptop will last the hour travel to a mates house to lan without needing to be shut off, can be moved between house locations easily or even just out into the yard where i can relax in a hammock.
it's low profile so i can put it behind a large television to upgrade it to a truly smart device as I need to & not as a permanent installment.
I can use it as a DM screen when roleplaying so I have all my notes organised and handy with my char gen progs accessible.
As far as small & light systems go I'm really waiting for what the intel vs amd apu battle is going to be like; because one or the others going to be discounted to be competitive in that market instead of trying to maintain the status quo of overcharging for incremental increase.
I mean everyone can see how it'll play out AMD will say ours is superior overall we'll charge a high price and intel will say well ours is actually over 5.3ghz so they won't budge on price and in the end it'll just be consumers losing out where it should be healthy competition driving prices back down to it's realistic market valuation.
Lets face it; it doesn't cost AMD as much to make a chip as intel it's a simple question of die's per wafer & intels been overcharging for years.
I'm not sure why i should see it as overcharging, granted with only 2 real companies offering customer chips the whole market is a bit small but there are enough reasonable price offers to be found on both sides of the coin
Posted October 09, 2020
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MaceyNeil: You gonna try and 'bot' the launch ;)
I probably will, but they are starting to price like intel so if there's scalping and no supplies I'll wait for a decent laptop variant that uses a desktop grade chip.
Yes I know that gimps overall performance, but a portable device with decent battery backup is 'so' much better for my use case.
A solid state laptop will last the hour travel to a mates house to lan without needing to be shut off, can be moved between house locations easily or even just out into the yard where i can relax in a hammock.
it's low profile so i can put it behind a large television to upgrade it to a truly smart device as I need to & not as a permanent installment.
I can use it as a DM screen when roleplaying so I have all my notes organised and handy with my char gen progs accessible.
As far as small & light systems go I'm really waiting for what the intel vs amd apu battle is going to be like; because one or the others going to be discounted to be competitive in that market instead of trying to maintain the status quo of overcharging for incremental increase.
I mean everyone can see how it'll play out AMD will say ours is superior overall we'll charge a high price and intel will say well ours is actually over 5.3ghz so they won't budge on price and in the end it'll just be consumers losing out where it should be healthy competition driving prices back down to it's realistic market valuation.
Lets face it; it doesn't cost AMD as much to make a chip as intel it's a simple question of die's per wafer & intels been overcharging for years.
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Radiance1979: I'm not sure why i should see it as overcharging, granted with only 2 real companies offering customer chips the whole market is a bit small but there are enough reasonable price offers to be found on both sides of the coin
Price under capitalism is determined by how far a company can separate the end consumer from the truth of it's fiscal origins.
In that sense yes your right any price is the one that a person with no sense of value will pay.
Posted October 09, 2020
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Radiance1979: I'm not sure why i should see it as overcharging, granted with only 2 real companies offering customer chips the whole market is a bit small but there are enough reasonable price offers to be found on both sides of the coin
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MaceyNeil: Price under capitalism is determined by how far a company can separate the end consumer from the truth of it's fiscal origins.
In that sense yes your right any price is the one that a person with no sense of value will pay.
that is a weird sentence......

one one side you have intel with the high core speed focus and on the other hand you have the amd corner with their workload focus.

if an intel cpu, to make an example of 350 euro's delivers the same or even slightly better results in gaming when compared to a topline amd cpu that costs 500 euro's how can you say that intel is more expensive then amd?
Posted October 09, 2020
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MaceyNeil: Price under capitalism is determined by how far a company can separate the end consumer from the truth of it's fiscal origins.
In that sense yes your right any price is the one that a person with no sense of value will pay.
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Radiance1979: that is a weird sentence......

one one side you have intel with the high core speed focus and on the other hand you have the amd corner with their workload focus.

if an intel cpu, to make an example of 350 euro's delivers the same or even slightly better results in gaming when compared to a topline amd cpu that costs 500 euro's how can you say that intel is more expensive then amd?
If you had 2 processors that ran at the same speed exactly and cost the same exactly, but you knew that one of them was produced for every two of the other then you know by the effect of scarcity on demand that as a consumer you are being ripped off because in a free market the excess results in a price drop which spurns the other company to improve manufacturing yield.
Simply put the free market creates product evolution because the weakest company dies out if it doesn't, they don't tacit collude to fix pricing.
Posted October 10, 2020
did i got that right, amd announced a 20% single thread ipc advantage of zen 3 over zen 2 in gaming?

how realistic is that? 5% sound more realistic to me.
Posted October 10, 2020
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apehater: did i got that right, amd announced a 20% single thread ipc advantage of zen 3 over zen 2 in gaming?

how realistic is that? 5% sound more realistic to me.
From what I saw, they anounce ~19% higher IPC on a average of workloads, context matter....

Either way, they are 1st party claims and we all know what that means. One single 8core cluster on zen 3 vs double 4 core clusters with separate cache yelds by itself huge gains on "typical" youtube game scenarios. Look at the Ryzen 3100 vs 3300.
What they consider "average of workloads" is dark magic for us, since we know nothing about it.
Let's wait to see Cinebench results.
Posted October 13, 2020
I'm going to wait until we have benchmarks for the new CPUs before I make a decision whether to go with a 5600X or buy something like a 3600 instead. From what I'm able to tell, the new CPUs (at least the ones below the 5950X) aren't necessarily going to be a huge improvement in terms of gaming. And since these CPUs sport a higher price tag, it seems worth waiting to find out just how much of an improvement you're getting for the extra money.
Posted October 13, 2020
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Radiance1979: All the new hype with the 5000 launch....

i'm not sure what they are getting at

more expensive, powerdraw seems oke or within reasonable limits but to scream intel killer while none of amd's line even manages to come close to a 4,1 ghz base clock is beyond me
Which Intel CPU has a 4.1 GHz base clock?
Posted October 13, 2020
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Radiance1979: All the new hype with the 5000 launch....

i'm not sure what they are getting at

more expensive, powerdraw seems oke or within reasonable limits but to scream intel killer while none of amd's line even manages to come close to a 4,1 ghz base clock is beyond me
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kmanitou: Which Intel CPU has a 4.1 GHz base clock?
the 10600k
Posted October 13, 2020
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kmanitou: Which Intel CPU has a 4.1 GHz base clock?
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Radiance1979: the 10600k
Sounds like a beast, then you look at the price of the part and the ecosystem, then the performance, and I'd still buy a 3600. The 7nm process sure makes a big difference.
Posted October 14, 2020
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Radiance1979: the 10600k
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kmanitou: Sounds like a beast, then you look at the price of the part and the ecosystem, then the performance, and I'd still buy a 3600. The 7nm process sure makes a big difference.
well we all have our own reasonings, the 2600 fell short by a lot for me, it had a well, positively reviewed motherboard, added some nice memory and still, when the going really went tough my machine crashed on the most awkward of moments in total war games ( several times after +160 turns, Mass Effect Andromeda repeatedly ) and some other games it just could not perform. now in the end it might had to do as much with some compatibility issues as well as cpu failure but this being my first amd experiment and all the result in the games that mattered to me was less then satisfying.

so yea, the 10600k was about 130 euro's more expensive but at least i'm smiling again
Posted October 14, 2020
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kmanitou: Sounds like a beast, then you look at the price of the part and the ecosystem, then the performance, and I'd still buy a 3600. The 7nm process sure makes a big difference.
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Radiance1979: well we all have our own reasonings, the 2600 fell short by a lot for me, it had a well, positively reviewed motherboard, added some nice memory and still, when the going really went tough my machine crashed on the most awkward of moments in total war games ( several times after +160 turns, Mass Effect Andromeda repeatedly ) and some other games it just could not perform. now in the end it might had to do as much with some compatibility issues as well as cpu failure but this being my first amd experiment and all the result in the games that mattered to me was less then satisfying.

so yea, the 10600k was about 130 euro's more expensive but at least i'm smiling again
I've seen a lot of reports of niggles and problems with Ryzen over the years, so I'm sure it's a real issue for some people. I wonder if AMD thought about that before raising their prices and making Intel look more competitive again.
Posted October 14, 2020
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kmanitou: I've seen a lot of reports of niggles and problems with Ryzen over the years, so I'm sure it's a real issue for some people. I wonder if AMD thought about that before raising their prices and making Intel look more competitive again.
I'm using a first gen Ryzen (1800X, pre-ordered). It has the segfault bug that was widely publicized during the time and corrected for later batches of the same CPU. Apart from that, as long as you choose RAM that it is compatible with (and don't go crazy with overclocking), it's rock solid. I can't trace a single bug or crash to "cpu is broken", other than RAM related random failures and the segfault issue Linux & BSD users found when compiling stuff. (Also using AMD EPYC as a workhorse at work and it's rock solid)

So I'd be extremely sceptical of anyone who blames their game crashes on AMD CPUs. I think we'd be hearing more about it in tech news outlets if it were a real issue with AMD CPUs.

I'm surprised about "just could not perform" claim since even the second gen Zen chips were very close to Intel in terms of single-thread IPC. I have the vibe that we're not getting the whole story here.
Posted October 14, 2020
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kmanitou: I've seen a lot of reports of niggles and problems with Ryzen over the years, so I'm sure it's a real issue for some people. I wonder if AMD thought about that before raising their prices and making Intel look more competitive again.
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clarry: I'm using a first gen Ryzen (1800X, pre-ordered). It has the segfault bug that was widely publicized during the time and corrected for later batches of the same CPU. Apart from that, as long as you choose RAM that it is compatible with (and don't go crazy with overclocking), it's rock solid. I can't trace a single bug or crash to "cpu is broken", other than RAM related random failures and the segfault issue Linux & BSD users found when compiling stuff. (Also using AMD EPYC as a workhorse at work and it's rock solid)

So I'd be extremely sceptical of anyone who blames their game crashes on AMD CPUs. I think we'd be hearing more about it in tech news outlets if it were a real issue with AMD CPUs.

I'm surprised about "just could not perform" claim since even the second gen Zen chips were very close to Intel in terms of single-thread IPC. I have the vibe that we're not getting the whole story here.
In my defense, total war is known for a notorious engine concerning ryzen, even with the ryzen 5000 presentation it was one of the games that actually had a very small negative loss over the previous generation while other games actually had about a 20% benefit

In amd's offense, the've been known throughout the year for lacking driver support for both their motherboards cpu's and gpu's

The latest issue being the rx 5700 issues that a huge number of users experienced and which, what was pretty obvious on intel's side with the 3080 launch, namely low grade parts, not so easily explained why so many users had unexpected crashes over on amd's side of live

Still i've been uberskeptical about the same reports about weird crashes as anyone i guess, do people use the system in a right way? e.g. did they look for compatible parts, did they cool enough, did they stay away from overclocks etc...
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionAre you about to buy an AMD Ryzen based desktop?(67 posts)(67 posts)
(67 posts)