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General discussionAre tinfoil theorists attracted to GOG???11?(175 posts)(175 posts)
(175 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted September 13, 2016
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Vainamoinen: International, large scale, independent investigation into e.g. fluoride have happened. They all yield the same basic results, that's why we started to give our children fluoride in the first place. If you wish to ignore those studies just because Dr. Chekov is your go-to guy <snip>
You know, when I was a teenager there was a audio tape I listened to. It was talking about vitamins and other things, the tape was called dead doctors don't lie I believe. One of the things brought up in the tape was fluoride, and the confusion of how a salt or substance with a similar name which was good for making teeth stronger and healthier, and the similarity of the name was used to instead push it into our water systems.

This was back in 1994.

Actually I'll be re-listening to this, as I haven't heard this for 20 years, and it's time to listen to it again. But not right now, I need some sleep. I'll queue this up for a listen in the morning.
Posted September 13, 2016
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Emob78: For one moment pretend that I don't know anything about chemistry, metallurgy, or physics, and just tell me what the hell is going on here.
You never studied.
Posted September 13, 2016
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rtcvb32: One of the things brought up in the tape was fluoride, and the confusion of how a salt or substance with a similar name which was good for making teeth stronger and healthier, and the similarity of the name was used to instead push it into our water systems.
So did your doctor actually manage to confuse fluor and fluoride or do you just remember it completely wrong?
Posted September 13, 2016
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Vainamoinen: You know, it's not as if I didn't understand the conspiracy theorists. They live in a much more interesting world, one in which large scale conspiracies are feasible, in which governments by dozens of angles try to euthanize their citizens (and make their teeth explode) and in which Hillary Clinton evidently is a robot remote controlled and/or sedated by the afro-american population.

On the other hand, when Donald Trump bribes an attorney general to keep the IRS' nose out of his university, and he's basically being "Yeah I did that, so what?" about it, that's not in any way a fantastic conspiracy theory, that's just sincerely uninteresting blatantly obvious stuff, so that story stays under the nutter radar.

I've been reading Thomas Grüter's book on the subject quite some years ago when those conspiracies and the people who believe in them still intrigued me. At the core of most theories lies the conspiracy faith, which is inalterable. It's usually a certain group or people that are supposedly up to no good. The fantastic "why" or "how" rest is thrown at this basis completely regardless of actual credibility. If one of those angles gets debunked, you try another, while the underlying, yes, quasi-religious faith remains the same.

This has zero to do with the scientific process, which works precisely the other way round!

The few dozen theories brought up in that conspiracy nutter thread haven't just been "debunked", they've been nuked to smithereens. And still the core of it, the faith that those Democrats are plotting the downfall of the US, stays intact 100%.
I agree with this. I met someone, not a complete nut, but still listened to all those conspiracy nuts. Mostly Alex Jones, whoo buddy. Anyway when confronted about them, he'd usually call you part of the problem or say you're just not knowledgeable enough.

The best way to deal with them is ask for evidence then point out the flaws. Usually they'll shift goal posts (well the fluoride may not be causing damage but the government lied!) or deny your points completely. Does obfuscation occur? Sure, we've all seen it. Doesn't mean it's a huge grand scheme to take over our minds. Though I won't rule out letting us have fewer decisions. Eventually they will either concede they can't convince you or you'll get tired of their BS "sources". No convincing, it's all faith dictated by faulty logic.
Posted September 13, 2016
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Vainamoinen: This has zero to do with the scientific process, which works precisely the other way round!
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Breja: In my experience the "logic" these people follow comes down to "the abscence of proof proves that proof was destroyed by the conspirators, so the lack of proof proves that the conspiracy exists!"
For a good example of this, see the Apollo Moon Landing deniers. Or Flat Earthers who think that the real edge of the world exists in Antarctica, but is actually patrolled by NASA Black Ops special forces who would stop anyone trying to reach it. (Never mind that NASA can barely afford to keep itself functioning, let alone get SLS finished on time.)
Posted September 13, 2016
I took off my tinfoil hat to ask the grey alien member of the Illuminati who speaks to me through my tooth filling.

He said no. And that's exactly according to plan.
Posted September 13, 2016
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darthspudius: The Black Knight always triumphs!
Despite pretty clear evidence as to the Black Knight's actual origins, the resiliency of the mythos surrounding it certainly lives up to its Monty Python namesake.
Posted September 13, 2016
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whytestallion: The best way to deal with them is ask for evidence then point out the flaws. Usually they'll shift goal posts (well the fluoride may not be causing damage but the government lied!)
Absolutely, that's what I was getting at. You can't do squat against the conspiracy faith, you spend your time disproving complete fabricated bullshit that's just orbiting the conspiracy faith, and once the fabricated bullshit is disproven, a new shielding fabricated bullshit layer immediately pops up.

And that bullshit layer becomes virtually impenetrable with the JAQing off strategy. The conspiracists appear as if they're "Just Asking Questions", but in reality it's a bunch of half-assed insinuations they know for a fact to be just too crazy to actually be put into their very own theory of events. That way, they spread all the FUD they could ever want to without ever breaking their spines under any kind of burden of proof. They supposedly "don't know", but "isn't it strange how [someone touched Hillary Clinton even though she's a presidential candidate etc] and shouldn't we investigate into this some more?".

What they call the pieces of the puzzle seldom match each other, but really don't need to anyway, because no conspiracy theorist worth his salt will ever try to put that puzzle together without being attacked for being a complete nut by his fellow conspiracy theorists. The puzzle pieces are just isolated artifacts meant to instigate moments of doubt.
Post edited September 13, 2016 by Vainamoinen
Posted September 13, 2016
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rampancy: Or Flat Earthers who think that the real edge of the world exists in Antarctica, but is actually patrolled by NASA Black Ops special forces
It's not as entertaining as the Hollow Earth theory where different civilzations of the "real earthlings" are waging wars among themselves and that the earthquakes that we get "here" are just consequences of huge explosions due to their fights. Beware of what's below your feets :o)

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Actually, this just reminded me of some 50-something guy who lives in my area and works in Brussels. So during his daily commuting (in bus and train) he usually read books about galaxies and such and when he spots a "victim", he starts talking to them about UFO and alien entities who in fact rule our lives and the universe. Needless to say that it quickly becomes awkward for the other person and when other people try to debunk him, he just calls them idiots and say they're not smart and enlightened enough. Last time I saw him he ended up getting punched in the face by another commuter :o)
Posted September 13, 2016
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DaCostaBR: I guess it kind of intersects with religion a bit.

I had a classmate in college who was really into Yoga, and Reiki and that type of spiritual stuff. Everyday he would come in and talk to anyone who would listen about the latest book he read about Atlantis. He'd say: "Yes, Atlantis existed 12.000 years ago, every citizen was ultra enlightened,made entirely of energy, and could live forever, but then there was a war (don't remember the specifics) and that's why it sinked. That's why I meditate everyday, I hope to one day reach the atlanteans level and gain all their powers."

Even though one day he would read and spout one thing, and the next something entirely contradictory, he still never showed any sign of self-awareness.
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Nirth: Whaat? That's hilarious. Does he still believe in that? Weird connection with meditation and secret Atlantis powers though.
Haven't seen him in almost a year, but last I checked he still believes in it, but doesn't preach as much.

Buddhism does speak of enlightenment through meditation. Maybe he read in one of his books the atlanteans were enlightened and thought it was the same thing? Or maybe the book flat out made the connection? Everything in it was made up anyway, so why not this?
Posted September 13, 2016
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catpower1980: Actually, this just reminded me of some 50-something guy who lives in my area and works in Brussels. So during his daily commuting (in bus and train) he usually read books about galaxies and such and when he spots a "victim", he starts talking to them about UFO and alien entities who in fact rule our lives and the universe.
When I look at all the political bullshit spread around, the UFO nutters actually seem like the one really sympathetic arm of the nut brigade to me. I mean, their logical fuckup is comparatively singular and the inalterable core of their conspiracy faith ("aliens are among us") comparatively harmless. The chance for another advanced intelligent society to exist on some planet in our universe is substantial. The chance they'll ever reach our planet however, and even during the infinitely short time frame we humans are around... literally zero.
Post edited September 13, 2016 by Vainamoinen
Posted September 13, 2016
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darthspudius: The Black Knight always triumphs!
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rampancy: Despite pretty clear evidence as to the Black Knight's actual origins, the resiliency of the mythos surrounding it certainly lives up to its Monty Python namesake.
Admittedly I didn't know this thing existed. Now that I do, that is some X-Files shit I want to read about. :D
Posted September 13, 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJLSzsEjpWM
Music to help you arrive at the truth. It makes tinfoil hats vibrate at the frequency of the universe and enables people to reach the higher level of understanding required to tap into the same plans Nostradamus and Buddha and others did. Wkikipedia said it was true, so I say so too.
Posted September 13, 2016
My conspiracy theory is that cats are pure evil and are using people for their benefits. I trust a dog much more.
Post edited September 13, 2016 by eksasol
Posted September 13, 2016
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eksasol: My conspiracy theory is that cats are pure evil and are using people for their benefits. I trust a dog much more.
That's exactly what a person trying to cover up evidence of impending wars for the establishment of canine domination would say......
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionAre tinfoil theorists attracted to GOG???11?(175 posts)(175 posts)
(175 posts)