I was simply responding to you saying...

I don't believe I made that point at all. TBH I don't think there are so many The Avengers fans (circa 1998) -- 30 years after the series ended (over a generation later) -- that differing from the tone and / or style of the original series mattered at all to box office reciepts or general perception. No, I believe the knee-jerk extremely critical responses were the very beginnings of what we see now -- cynical critics demanding dark, serious, and ironic fare and being out-of-touch with many filmgoers. The only difference to now being that 20 years ago critics held more sway on the life or death of films and the over-all shape of public opinion.

From my time working in Hollywood, I feel pretty safe in saying that tastes of the public are fickle and cyclic... and except for the most incompetent movies, a film that is hated today might be loved a few years from now. Heck, It's a Wonderful Life was a total bomb when it was released. It essentially killed Liberty Films.

I think it's completely valid to say "I don't like that" or "I like that," but I don't think it's particularly valid to say "that is bad."

As to the other point of this thread...

I don't think in this day-and-age that the studios have particular "personalities" and fare. Where early in their "lives" the studios were known for particular brands and genres of entertainment, it's all just seems a jumbled mess now... except for distributors who specialize in types and genres.

Speaking of them wanting dark films....that reminds me of the current trend with horror remakes to go dark and edgy....ala films like Child's Play, Pet Semetary, etc.

Damn, you worked there/with think tanks(iirc)/have cop family....is there anything you didn't do? :D

And as for It's a Wonderful Life....I recently watched a "How that film became a christmas film" documentary by a youtuber(a few months back)...basically they got it free or cheap and they ran it often to save on money and a holiday staple was born, as it were. It was fun to learn all that, at any rate.

TBF, it is if one says it is their opinion or somehow lets people know that it is some other way.

Corrected this bit to be more accurate....but you are correct...many studios make what sells nowadays and they follow trends a lot.

Bad films are bad films, that they're bad doesn't preclude people from liking them anymore than it would people not liking good films, which is why I added that it was fine and not some general statement based around the frankly dumb idea of "it's bad and shouldn't be enjoyed".

What do you consider to be bad films?

Look... you don't like The Avengers movie and many would agree. Fine. You don't believe The Avengers is a cult movie. Fine. But while your opinion of what you like or don't like is noted, your opinion is not objective reality for "good" and "bad"... it is simply your opinion.

Ha. I'm just older and have years and years of experiences. BTW, my wife has done much more than I have. She puts me to shame. And yes, there are many, many things I've never done. ;)

New forum game idea: Name things Kai 2 hasn't yet done :D

Plenty of the films I watch, since you asked.

Never said I didn't like it, that's you saying I did. I said it was a bad film and it is and I stand by that.

Much like you taking issue with people's cynical opinions toward film and it being some barometer of how Hollywood would henceforth forever swing past a certain era, I take issue with tossing around terms like "cult this" and "cult that" for everything that's ever had a critic kick up dust at it or because it failed to make back the excessive budget some fishbrained collective of suits decided to toss at it.

I never claimed my opinion was anything but my own. I said "bad films are bad films" - that's not my personal opinion, that's the reality that some films have to live with. Like I said before, just because they're bad doesn't preclude people from enjoying them so I don't know what's causing the reaction there. Unless you worked on The Avengers personally and feel like it being deemed a bad film is somehow belittling yours and the efforts of others who worked on it (personally I'd say it isn't - the films where little to no effort is put forward often get called out on it and even then there's people who enjoy those).

Again, you label films as "bad" -- based on criteria you assume but do not know -- thus elevating your own opinion. You can try to play semantics to cloud your prejudice but it's clear... you want to deem things "bad" based on your own convoluted guesswork as to perceived missions and effort (something you cannot ever divine) and then "allow" people to like "lesser efforts." Thank you oh great arbiter of art. Thank you for allowing me to enjoy something that you deem "bad." Many, many thanks.

I'm sorry but I just can't believe your arrogance.

I can see that what I've said is being massively blown out of proportion.

The only context you have of me labeling films "bad" as it pertains to elevating my own opinion is me saying "plenty of the films I watch" - which includes anything released recently to decades (and more) from long before I was born. I don't feel the need to qualify it with specific examples when the discussion you've attempted to loop me into in order to berate me is based around one film that's commonly regarded as bad. I could name anything from Citizen Kane to Demolition Man and I have little doubt that you'd break out that "I worked in Hollywood, let me school you on why those examples are bad films" air of condescending haughtiness that you seem to want acknowledgement for. Let me spare you the need to further openly shit on me in the thread: you know better than I about what's good and what's not when it comes to film and other media. That's a genuine admission there, not coming from some made up land of patronizing horse crap that you tossed in there about me deigning to "allow you to enjoy" anything or me appointing myself as some great arbiter of art. If for some reason you still want to continue to dump on me - my chat's open.

Yeah, my arrogance. I said I took issue with terming every group of people who liked something a "cult fandom", you then decided to post some knee jerk response to that by completely misinterpreting that as me saying "no, you can't like bad movies". Then you got further upset when I refused to back away from the idea that movies can, in fact, be bad. That apparently set you off enough to then try and pull off some ridiculous further twisting of my words to suit your own argument better and then you just stopped wanting to be civil and dove right into being a completely condescending prick.

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In light of the Snyderverse, this statement makes me want to vomit.

True, but it appears to have better taste in movies than LegoDnD :D

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Lett me guess did original poster meant Warner Bros. Movie World or what?