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General discussionAny short WRPGs out there?(19 posts)(19 posts)
(19 posts)
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Posted January 05, 2021
Something I've been thinking of is that one of my favorite JRPGs, SaGa 1 (Final Fantasy Legend 1), is in part enjoyable because it's short and fast-paced, to the point where I'm ready to start a new playthrough right when I finish it; it's also good if I don't want to invest too much into a playthrough.

I am wondering whether there are any WRPGs that are similarly short?

What I'm looking for:
* Game should recognizably be a WRPG. Also, I would really prefer turn-based combat here.
* Game should be short, like 8 hours or less for a casual first playthrough.
* Game should be fast-paced, in that it should feel like you get a lot done in each playing session.
* Saving and loading need to be under control of the player (this condition is there to disallow games with roguelike-style permadeath).
* Preferred if the game has high replay value. This can include things like choices in character building as well as sidequests and events that can have different outcomes.

So, any games that fit these criteria?
Posted January 05, 2021
Age of decadence fits all those criteria, it's short, has turn-based combat, and very high replayability (about 6 totally different main questlines iirc, with a lot of branching).
Post edited January 05, 2021 by morolf
Posted January 05, 2021
I hear Shadowrun Returns is quite short. Haven't played it very far myself, though it seems to fit most of your criteria.
Posted January 06, 2021
Mars: War Logs mostly fits (though I think combat is realtime / realtime with pause). Been a while.
Posted January 06, 2021
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FireTiger_86: I hear Shadowrun Returns is quite short. Haven't played it very far myself, though it seems to fit most of your criteria.
Yes, all three are relatively short for the genre but especially Returns. I highly recommend all of them too, especially Dragonfall.
Posted January 06, 2021
Stygian: Reign of the Old Ones

Not your typical WRPG, but definitely one worth trying
Posted January 06, 2021
This is a recent game I've played and I've had fun with it. Not sure if it meets all your criteria since I don't recall the save system.

It isn't a long game, but game time is hard to judge since sometimes people stop to smell the roses if you know what I mean.

Cosmic Star Heroine
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Posted January 06, 2021
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gog2002x: This is a recent game I've played and I've had fun with it. Not sure if it meets all your criteria since I don't recall the save system.

It isn't a long game, but game time is hard to judge since sometimes people stop to smell the roses if you know what I mean.

Cosmic Star Heroine
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Haven't play ed it (though I do have it in my library), but isn't that game actually a JRPG?
Posted January 06, 2021
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gog2002x: This is a recent game I've played and I've had fun with it.
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dtgreene: Haven't play ed it (though I do have it in my library), but isn't that game actually a JRPG?
Possible, but TBH I didn't really think in those terms when I played it. It just felt like a nice fast paced RPG game and each mission felt like a quick short story with good stopping points.
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I went back and read some of the reviews and I guess it does draw on JRPG elements. It didn't feel that way to me though and this may have been one of the few RPGs I didn't have to read through walls of text lol.

Guess you can cross this one off then.
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Post edited January 06, 2021 by gog2002x
Posted January 06, 2021
The closest to your requirements that I can think of are custom modules for Forgotten Realms Unlimited Adventures (e.g. Curse of the Fire Dragon, by Darius Whiteheart). Possibly also some for Blades of Avernum? Not sure about the replay value, but points 1-4 are definitely met.

Shadowrun Returns came to my mind as well, but according to HowLongToBeat, it's a little over 8 hours (12-14?), and I'm not sure about replay value either (then again, I'm probably the wrong person to judge that, as most games don't have actual replay value for me). I'd also have said Driftmoon (~10 hours), but it's not turn-based and according to your strict definition you wouldn't even call it an RPG. Age of Decadence seems to be around 15 hours?

Oh, hey, West of Loathing might fit, even though the combat is rather JRPG-like, but if West of Loathing isn't an WRPG, what is? ;)
Post edited January 06, 2021 by Leroux
Posted January 06, 2021
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Leroux: Age of Decadence seems to be around 15 hours?
Depends, if one plays a combat-focused character it probably takes longer than eight hours. However it's much shorter with a speech-focused character who skips all the combat.
Posted January 06, 2021
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dtgreene: Haven't play ed it (though I do have it in my library), but isn't that game actually a JRPG?
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gog2002x: Possible, but TBH I didn't really think in those terms when I played it. It just felt like a nice fast paced RPG game and each mission felt like a quick short story with good stopping points.
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I went back and read some of the reviews and I guess it does draw on JRPG elements. It didn't feel that way to me though and this may have been one of the few RPGs I didn't have to read through walls of text lol.

Guess you can cross this one off then.
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It's off of this list, but it's still a game I'm likely to play at some point. Interesting to hear that it's short (but is it <8 hours?).
Posted January 06, 2021
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dtgreene: Something I've been thinking of is that one of my favorite JRPGs, SaGa 1 (Final Fantasy Legend 1), is in part enjoyable because it's short and fast-paced, to the point where I'm ready to start a new playthrough right when I finish it; it's also good if I don't want to invest too much into a playthrough.

I am wondering whether there are any WRPGs that are similarly short?

What I'm looking for:
* Game should recognizably be a WRPG. Also, I would really prefer turn-based combat here.
* Game should be short, like 8 hours or less for a casual first playthrough.
* Game should be fast-paced, in that it should feel like you get a lot done in each playing session.
* Saving and loading need to be under control of the player (this condition is there to disallow games with roguelike-style permadeath).
* Preferred if the game has high replay value. This can include things like choices in character building as well as sidequests and events that can have different outcomes.

So, any games that fit these criteria?
I'm not sure how wizardry lands, tbh, as i've played less than an hour of it and other wizardry-likes. Lots of roguelikes, and you can break their permadeath with scumming, usually.

The challenge seems to be the length issue: short RPGs aren't usually considered good unless they're roguelikes, so people tend to focus on that mentality, even in japan. Short length sort of defeats the purpose of the character development scheme.

I'm curious where this came form, as i remember a year or two ago you were asking for the exact opposite.
Posted January 06, 2021
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dtgreene: Something I've been thinking of is that one of my favorite JRPGs, SaGa 1 (Final Fantasy Legend 1), is in part enjoyable because it's short and fast-paced, to the point where I'm ready to start a new playthrough right when I finish it; it's also good if I don't want to invest too much into a playthrough.

I am wondering whether there are any WRPGs that are similarly short?

What I'm looking for:
* Game should recognizably be a WRPG. Also, I would really prefer turn-based combat here.
* Game should be short, like 8 hours or less for a casual first playthrough.
* Game should be fast-paced, in that it should feel like you get a lot done in each playing session.
* Saving and loading need to be under control of the player (this condition is there to disallow games with roguelike-style permadeath).
* Preferred if the game has high replay value. This can include things like choices in character building as well as sidequests and events that can have different outcomes.

So, any games that fit these criteria?
avatar
kohlrak: I'm not sure how wizardry lands, tbh, as i've played less than an hour of it and other wizardry-likes. Lots of roguelikes, and you can break their permadeath with scumming, usually.

The challenge seems to be the length issue: short RPGs aren't usually considered good unless they're roguelikes, so people tend to focus on that mentality, even in japan. Short length sort of defeats the purpose of the character development scheme.

I'm curious where this came form, as i remember a year or two ago you were asking for the exact opposite.
It comes from the fact that I happen to like SaGa 1 (Final Fantasy Legend 1), which is a rather short, fast-paced, JRPG with a character development scheme (actually 3, as there are 3 different races with different growth rules, and they're all rather unusual).

I am just wondering whether there's any WRPG counterparts here, games that are just as short and good, but which are WRPGs rather than JRPGs.

(Worth noting: The Romancing SaGa games straddle the JRPG/WRPG line, but the Game Boy SaGas do not; they're firmly JRPGs, aside from some unusual gameplay elements (particularly in 1 and 2, less so in 3).)

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kohlrak: Lots of roguelikes, and you can break their permadeath with scumming, usually.
Problem: The decision to have permadeath affects the game design in some rather profound ways, and those effects on the game design persist even if you subvert it by backing up saves (which is extra work for the player, by the way).
Post edited January 06, 2021 by dtgreene
Posted January 06, 2021
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kohlrak: I'm not sure how wizardry lands, tbh, as i've played less than an hour of it and other wizardry-likes. Lots of roguelikes, and you can break their permadeath with scumming, usually.

The challenge seems to be the length issue: short RPGs aren't usually considered good unless they're roguelikes, so people tend to focus on that mentality, even in japan. Short length sort of defeats the purpose of the character development scheme.

I'm curious where this came form, as i remember a year or two ago you were asking for the exact opposite.
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dtgreene: It comes from the fact that I happen to like SaGa 1 (Final Fantasy Legend 1), which is a rather short, fast-paced, JRPG with a character development scheme (actually 3, as there are 3 different races with different growth rules, and they're all rather unusual).

I am just wondering whether there's any WRPG counterparts here, games that are just as short and good, but which are WRPGs rather than JRPGs.

(Worth noting: The Romancing SaGa games straddle the JRPG/WRPG line, but the Game Boy SaGas do not; they're firmly JRPGs, aside from some unusual gameplay elements (particularly in 1 and 2, less so in 3).)
Well, as i said, this usually tends to be the result of a technical limitation.
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kohlrak: Lots of roguelikes, and you can break their permadeath with scumming, usually.
Problem: The decision to have permadeath affects the game design in some rather profound ways, and those effects on the game design persist even if you subvert it by backing up saves (which is extra work for the player, by the way).
To deal with the extra work, that's a setup issue. As for the effects of permadeath, well, of course. Take nethack, for example: the meta goal of the game is learning when and what risks are worth taking. At the end of the day though, it's precisely that permadeath that justifies it's length. It's hard to justify a short RPG outside of technical limitation or permadeath. It's like asking for platformers that don't have instea-death. Your best angle would be looking for RPGs on itch, because, well, a short RPG is a design flaw (except with roguelikes which are only deceptively short). Ultimately, if you're looking for something well rated (as an RPG, because things like evoland are more about being "love letters" than their own game), you're going to be either breaking permadeath or multiplying XP payouts.
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General discussionAny short WRPGs out there?(19 posts)(19 posts)
(19 posts)