Indeed quite the full spectrum of posts in this thread. From civil discussions on the legality and morality of abandonware to an idiotic post that tries to shove politics into it, creates made-up arguments and compares those who disagree with him to little 'itlers. Bravo.

It was meant to be a bit of jocular banter ZFR, not to be taken personally or seriously, Sheldon Cooper style..... so thanks for the insults (any you get back are fully deserved BTW)..... you've just shown your true colours to the whole board there mate. And left or right wing - those are attitudes really, not just confined to politics.

And you have the gall to moan about this being "left vs right political"..... when there are other recent posts like this?
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/any_game_recommendations_on_gog_where_you_fight_kill_kkknaziswhite_supremacists/page1
I don't see you protesting about this thread, ZFR..... no, bog off mate, you're just an asshole ZFR! I've no time for dumbells like you.

Anyway my OP has been more than answered.... so again, thanks for all the replies everyone, they have been most helpful, well most of them. We can now move on to other things!

abandonware, many people call it piracy, but if the game is not sold, the license for it may have been lost. For example, a series of Unreal games, many write that it is abandonware, if anyone knows how to write to those support, write more often, perhaps this series of games will become free. Yes, I believe that abandonware is not piracy, but the loss of a license, that is, for free. Another question is, if any company is closed, then games or programs become free?

The answer to the last question: In most cases it's a clear No. There is always someone holding the rights or part of them. There eis no legal excuse to duplicate intellectual property. So yes, basically all these games are pirated, but it's tolerated.
As long as you don't try to sell them, it's unlikely that someone will sue.

Note: Sounds like the typical spammer posts with an account with only free games necroing an old topic. But I'll consider him not guilty for the moment :)

Can't buy what's not for sale.

This whole topic is the reason why I hate the fact that digital goods grant consumers less rights than physical media. If an old pre-Steam game stops being sold, that's the publisher's problem. We can still legally sell and buy physical copies of that game.

When a digital game stops being sold, that's the consumer's problem. The ability to trade legally is not present. This is why people desperately argue about the legality of acquiring "orphaned digital works". It is still illegal, but the law is unjust and should be updated for the sake of game preservation.

If it wasn't for bootlegging, we would have lost timeless classics like Nosferatu and Metropolis.

"Abandonware" is an urban legend, a mere myth, and it's complete hogwash. Creative property does not accidentally slip into the public domain because a rights holder "abandons" the work. That's not how reality works. The copyright keeps on existing, depending on the country of origin, for 70 to 125 years after its creation (or, in other cases, after the death of the author(s)).

Abandonware is a lie that people keep telling themselves to soothe their conscience.

If you can't buy the game anywhere, there are no special circumstances that apply. If no publisher is interested, the original creator or rights holder doesn't necessarily have a way to get his game sold. For them, these 'abandonware' platforms are of course a nightmare. They can't get their game sold, and people pirate it because it isn't sold anywhere. That cease and desist letter for their game would cost more than their net earn when they get the game sold anywhere.

So, yeah, if you think you have to use these platforms because you can't get these games anywhere, fine, your choice. I'm looking at these sites and I'm telling you yes of course you can legally buy a lot of these games.

Downloading these games, in any case, is definitely not legal, it is absolutely piracy from a legal standpoint, and people should simply stop lying to themselves and others about that very obvious fact.

We can let this six year old thread sink to the bottom now.

And yet ripping a cd to play on your phone or mp3 player isn't piracy... i think,.

Piracy is the wrong word to use, as on the seas there's real piracy going on. Appropriating the word to confligate stealing from someone at gunpoint while out at sea is hardly the same as sharing a few million 0's and 1's that make up a digital product where an infinite number of copies may exist.

Case laws stated long ago it was legal to capture and store a movie on VHS from TV, making a copy of that is hardly much different. And you are also allowed to copy a CD/DVD/Blueray to make a backup in the event the original gets damaged (In fact many would make a copy, then only use the copy and have the original untouched, unless they had to make another copy). And if i borrow a book or movie or game from the library, i'm sure i'm a pirate then too, right? I mean, i didn't pay for it afterall. (Yeah, good luck with that)

The big worry with this so called (and needs a different word) 'piracy' is that sales and income is lost. The MIIA started suing anyone downloading their songs, and they started having lawsuits against... a 12 yearold girl, a widow grandma, people who had died, college students, etc etc. Hundreds of thousands of dollars in lawsuits that ultimately just made them look like total assholes.

But we're talking on this topic about stuff that isn't in circulation, something you can't buy even if you wanted to. call it illegal if you want. Copyright is 'to encourage the creation of works and arts' and thus 'for al limited time gives exclusive rights to the creator'. It was never intended to be owned by like disney forever so they can mooch off it forever, in fact being able to mooch off it for too long much like Activision, EA, Disney, and other companies have gotten so lazy and now can't create anything good and are self-imploding. Because guess what, eventually everything goes into the public domain. How long before it does? I don't know, but 70+life or 120 years is too damn long. 10 seems far more reasonable since games movies and the like make their money in the first months, and books and movies and discs are out of production within 3 years.

If you feel it's illegal, who the f*** cares? it isn't hurting anyone, like if you smoke weed it isn't law enforcement's job to prevent you from doing what you want to your own body. The copyright fines are more intended to prevent reproductions of something you'd sell, like bootleg copies off someone else's work, which i can understand, but getting a game that isn't supported or sold, i say it's fine. Supposedly 80% of the games created have already disappeared permanently, and games on various sites keeping them alive either as archived or abandonware or the like keeps them from totally disappearing into the ether. We need to know where we came from, our roots, and not be stuck to DRM-ridden consoles where they can nuke games at any time and change content because it's suddenly 'sensitive' or there's a naughty word in it somewhere.

Not true mate. Also this topic is a six year old necro by (presumably) a bot.

Only way to preserve games with rights issues is abandonware. I'm about as anti-piracy as you can get but I see no issue with downloading something like No One Lives Forever off one of those sites, since no one can sell it to you. If it ever does go on sale again (like Blade Runner) then buy it.

Look into Berne Convention. IP created in one country of this network of countries must be respected by other member states for the duration of their copyright laws. I just don't ever recall it being invoked.

Bot pot-stirrer strikes again!

You are allowed to rip game files unchanged to a different media, that's not piracy. Up to a certain point law even allows to give that music to close family members. But you are not allowed to give these files to any others outside that very restricted circle and you are not allowed to disable copy protection. But honestly no one gives a shit as long as you don't distribute the game - or music.

The term "piracy" is bollocks anyway, th german term is even worse (a "Raubkopie", a copy obtained through robbery, which would include threats or violence). The legal term pretty much states exactly what it is about.

My bad

S'okay. Shit happens! ;)