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General discussionA thought having played Dark Souls again...(24 posts)(24 posts)
(24 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted November 17, 2021
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Breja: I don't think any game was ever made as unappealing to me on reputation alone as Dark Souls. There's plenty of infamously bad games I'd rather try than it.
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kai2: I'm not saying others should dislike the experience(s) or hate the game(s)... and I genuinely think the Souls games are high quality experiences... but I'm just not enjoying them anymore. I thought my appreciation would grow to more enjoyment over time, but for me, that hasn't been the case.
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Breja: Some games hold up for us even decades later, on 15th playthrough, but others.... sometimes we just can't return to the experience we once had. I recently had that happen with Freedom Force. I remember absolutely loving it back in the day, but now, while I still love the way it perfectly and gently spoofs old superhero comics, the gameplay itself is kind of a chore, with attack missing all the damn time, characters sometimes forgetting what they were doing and just standing there getting shot to pieces etc.

It's why I sometimes dread returning to some games, while at the same time it's why finding a beloved classic still holds up as good as ever is such a thrill.
For me, I think it's that I respect a number of developers and what they have accomplished in the medium of games (ie Miyazaki), but I just don't care much for actually playing their games. Probably like some books I have in my library -- "classics" -- that I understand their cultural significance but have a hard time getting through nonetheless... and seem to use the same line "one day I'll finish that."
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72_hour_Richard: "Dark Souls' adherence to a lonely and oppressive tone."

This is the intriguing and captivating thing about the first Dark Souls game, even when compared to the other Souls-games and FromSoft Souls-likes. The first game captures a sense of abandon and dread, in an unnerving yet somehow somberly comfortable game-world. I don't think the other games captures this feeling to the same degree.

I'm extremely picky when it comes to this sub-genre of action-rpg, I only like a very few of them; the first Dark Souls, the Surge series, Salt and Sanctuary ... in fact, I generally prefer the 2D types. Others like Nioh, Bloodborne, Mortal Shell, Remnant ... I have no interest in, not even Dark Souls 2 & 3.
...
If you have access, you may want to play Demon's Souls. Although Demon's Souls uses a hub world structure, Demon's Souls and Dark Souls are very, very close in tone.
Post edited November 17, 2021 by kai2
Posted November 17, 2021
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.Keys: I'd also recommend every Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen fan to play it without map for a while (you can deactivate it in settings) and/or without pawns. Things get really weird and scary. A fun experiment if you're into it. But this is really subjective.
I've played Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen so many times that now I only play without a HUD; I've removed everything from the screen except the world. But, I keep the pawns because I enjoy the teamwork and management. Probably not needed when you can farm Death pretty easily, but I like 'em.

I think my interest in companion AI is also why I enjoyed the Greedfall experience so much.
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Orkhepaj: ive only tried out Remnant from ashes , how that holds compared to the other ds games?
Haven't played Remnant. Have heard that the prequel Chronos from the Ashes is mediocre... but it does has a time ("chronos") gimmick I like... the player grows older with each death, and age does affect gameplay.
Post edited November 17, 2021 by kai2
Posted November 17, 2021
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kai2: But I'm wondering if...

... I enjoy adventuring and dungeon crawling with others, even if those others are AI?
Well, how do you feel about this when you play Blade of Darkness?


For me the most striking difference between Dragon's Dogma and Dark Souls is still that IIRC adventuring in Dragon's Dogma is mostly seamless, like

"Whoah, what is that huge thing over there? Let's sneak a bit closer and check it out. Yikes, it saw me, now the fight is on! Uh oh, I think I'm way over my head, let's get out of here and come back with new strength or a new tactic."

vs. DS's more restrictive

"Let's go this way. Surprise, a CUTSCENE! You're locked in this arena with a big boss now. Quick, think of a good tactic! Dodge!!! Aaaand you're dead. Enjoy the next 5 minutes of trying to get back to where you were before, fighting all the smaller mobs again." ;P


And if my memory does not deceive me, DD is more of an open world while DS is larger open sections but progress is halted by the bottleneck of obligatory boss fights? But I have to admit, I've never played DS beyond the second boss, and it's been a while since I've played through DD (once).
Post edited November 17, 2021 by Leroux
Posted November 17, 2021
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kai2: I think my interest in companion AI is also why I enjoyed the Greedfall experience so much.
Even when they "put poison on my blade" for the thousandth time? ;) I'm glad that I can make Dragon's Dogma's pawns shut up. All games with AI companions should have a mute option.
Post edited November 17, 2021 by Mr.Mumbles
Posted November 17, 2021
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kai2: ... the game feels like a lifeless, mechanical exercise.
I have barely played Dark Souls (mainly to see how it runs on my PC) so no comment on that...

...but that sums up perfectly why I have hard time enjoying the so-called "puzzle games" where you just try to figure out how to get all the pieces correctly or otherwise clear the level, and then you are just thrown to a yet another level which is a bit more complicated, over and over again...

It just feels mechanical, there is no excitement, and it just feels kinda pointless to me. Similarly I don't enjoy e.g. crossword puzzles, or chess.

This occurred to me the other day when we were visiting some place and I was bored, so I fired up a mobile game I once bought from Humble Bundle (Android) called "Aporkalypse - Pigs of Doom".

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hg.aporkalypse&hl=en&gl=US

The gameplay reminds me of somewhat of Lost Vikings, ie. you move around different characters which have different abilities, and figure out how to use them together to clear the puzzle. I never really enjoyed Lost Vikings either, there was just no excitement in playing it. Same for Lemmings. Cleared a few levels back in the day, and then moved on to some more interesting games.

That may also be the reason why I have hard time enjoying "managerial games" like Theme Hospital, Theme Park, Rollercoaster Tycoon games etc. I guess I still want some sort of "danger element" in the game as well, which is why I still enjoyed e.g. Dungeon Keeper games, even if they could possibly be considered as "managerial games" as well...
Posted November 18, 2021
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.Keys: I'd also recommend every Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen fan to play it without map for a while (you can deactivate it in settings) and/or without pawns. Things get really weird and scary. A fun experiment if you're into it. But this is really subjective.
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kai2: I've played Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen so many times that now I only play without a HUD; I've removed everything from the screen except the world. But, I keep the pawns because I enjoy the teamwork and management. Probably not needed when you can farm Death pretty easily, but I like 'em.
Indeed. Also, DDDA AI/Pawns system is incredible. The way you can teach your pawns how to deal with situations and how they really learn how to deal with them is great.
I wish this kind of system would return in more single player focused games.
Posted November 18, 2021
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kai2: But I'm wondering if...

... I enjoy adventuring and dungeon crawling with others, even if those others are AI?
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Leroux: Well, how do you feel about this when you play Blade of Darkness?
That's an interesting question. I haven't played Blade of Darkness for many years... but don't remember it as being quite as oppressive as Dark Souls... although it was certainly solitary, enclosed, and "mechanical" gameplay. When I pick up the recent GOG release, I'll let you know.

Potentially it's my age showing -- I'm just losing an affinity for certain games... or like movie genres... I'm not always enjoying certain kinds of entertainment. We'll see...

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Leroux: For me the most striking difference between Dragon's Dogma and Dark Souls is still that IIRC adventuring in Dragon's Dogma is mostly seamless, like

"Whoah, what is that huge thing over there? Let's sneak a bit closer and check it out. Yikes, it saw me, now the fight is on! Uh oh, I think I'm way over my head, let's get out of here and come back with new strength or a new tactic."

vs. DS's more restrictive

"Let's go this way. Surprise, a CUTSCENE! You're locked in this arena with a big boss now. Quick, think of a good tactic! Dodge!!! Aaaand you're dead. Enjoy the next 5 minutes of trying to get back to where you were before, fighting all the smaller mobs again." ;P
Yep, that's Dark Souls in a nutshell. ;)

Spent a few hours and 500 wood arrows killing the Fire Drake (or was that a Red Dragon in Dark Souls?). Hooray.

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Leroux: And if my memory does not deceive me, DD is more of an open world while DS is larger open sections but progress is halted by the bottleneck of obligatory boss fights? But I have to admit, I've never played DS beyond the second boss, and it's been a while since I've played through DD (once).
Most certainly... except for Bitterblack Isle which was certainly a tip o' the hat to Dark Souls. I think the open -world allowed for me to walk (or run) away from engagements and do light busywork in areas that felt much less threatening -- a pressure-release.

If I was to analyze myself based on what you brought up...

... I would say...

... I enjoy difficult games, but I hate the consistent feelings of claustrophobia, loneliness, and pressure in Dark Souls. I can put up with them for awhile simply enjoying the challenge, but for playing any length of time, I need a pressure-release either via AI companion interaction or an open-world to "disengage" for awhile. Probably the same reason I enjoy few horror movies.
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: Is that statement intended to imply that Dark Souls isn't a horror game? Because it definitely is. It's a fantasy/horror hybrid.
Yeah, you're right. It's definitely dark fantasy.
Post edited November 18, 2021 by kai2
Posted November 18, 2021
I have never been a fan of this type of games, although I do find the lore interesting.
Posted November 18, 2021
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kai2: Most certainly... except for Bitterblack Isle which was certainly a tip o' the hat to Dark Souls.
That would explain why I did not really enjoy it that much. I actually only played through the main story and world of DD. I gave Bitterblack Isle from the Dark Arisen expansion a try and also had a quick, half-hearted look at the postgame/plus content, but found that both wasn't for me and that I had lost motivation to continue after the end ...
Post edited November 18, 2021 by Leroux
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General discussionA thought having played Dark Souls again...(24 posts)(24 posts)
(24 posts)