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john_hatcher: That is true, but

1. what do you (and by you I not only me you mechmouse but everyone in this thread ... maybe even the 6 visitors) think is an appropriate time slot to judge GOG? How long until I/one can say, that the situation is better or worse?
2. do we get more than just some "joke comments" from the blue guys in this thread? Because till now, there is no official answer/plan/what-we-will-try-to-do-better. At least something would be nice. Otherwise one (at least I) could come to the conclusion that this all is just a GOG PR stunt.
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mechmouse: I'm going to wait till the new year before making my judgements.
Did you hear that GOG? You just got given a time limit. Please, make it count.
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john_hatcher: 1. what do you (and by you I not only me you mechmouse but everyone in this thread ... maybe even the 6 visitors) think is an appropriate time slot to judge GOG?
Honestly, and it's my only personal opinion and not some inside information or anything, I think that 3 to 6 month is a reasonable time window for "technical" changes (as in changes that requires change in the site code), probably longer for the forum (as they need to decide on what tech to use, customize it to their needs, etc...)

For communication changes, well I think that are already trying, like how they tied to be as transparent as possible with the game removal caused by the move from Cyprus to Poland, or with the Star Control Origin pseudo-NDA where it is actually mentioned three times on the game page making very hard for anybody to pre-order the game without noticing it.
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mechmouse: I'm going to wait till the new year before making my judgements.
Yeah, IF they'll do something, it will happen after January.
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mechmouse: A month isn't a very long time, not for a big company.
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john_hatcher: That is true, but

1. what do you (and by you I not only me you mechmouse but everyone in this thread ... maybe even the 6 visitors) think is an appropriate time slot to judge GOG? How long until I/one can say, that the situation is better or worse?
I would add that the clock didn't just start ticking when they arrived for the meetings. People have pointed out these things for much longer than 30 days, to the point that the various major unpaid community member solutions apparently have all been running well for over a year now.

I realize those solutions work with what the site gives them and don't actually change the site itself, but still...
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Here's the thing...

What changes? Why does everybody think "great things" are coming? GoG has told us NOTHING. But people somehow think that since 6 people flew to Poland to repeat all the things we've been asking for for years, that something is going to happen now?

So let me share my story with GoG and their "great efforts"....

I once had 4 stars and 1000 rep, but that scammer jerk who is stealing games off people in trades has been downrepping me with a script or exploit for months and now I've lost all my stars and am about to be unable to post links as if I haven't been here 5 YEARS!!!

So we get a community manager...one of the things she promised to do was investigate the downrepping problem, so I contacted her...

This was in March and my rep had already been dropped below 500. I was told she would look into it by adding me to a query script to find out who was doing it. A month and half later as my rep reached 400, I ask her if there was any progress. Over a week later I'm told she will NOW add me to a query script she is doing!

Another month later, beginning of June, and she's supposedly run the script but hasn't had the time to look at it. At the end of June as my rep is now down to 300, she finally comes back with the results...and claims there is no unusual downrepping. And I get told that only 1 user had downvoted me over 10 times (19 times in the previous 2 months). No one else more than 10 times. And then she tells me that she doesn't see a problem with it at all.

At this point I had lost over 700 rep. I avoided every stupid controversial thread and my rep was still dropping 5 points every single day. But in the "infinite wisdom" of the Community Manager nothing was wrong at all.

I told her to add up the numbers. Does this explain the hundreds of rep I'm losing? She said she'd "try to figure out what was happening". Finally she acknowledges maybe I'm right and someone is exploiting the rep system but that would be a web team issue and they wouldn't be looking into it any time soon. I didn't even get a GoG "soon". I get the GoG isn't planning to really do anything.

Basically a complete failure of any effort on GoG's part. They don't give a shit what happens to us. They have not changed. There will be no miracles.

So this is the GoG who are supposedly "listening". If they really were, they could have been reading the damn forums without inviting just 6 members to listen to. All they did was try to get on the good side of a few active detractors.

Now down almost a full 1000 rep, I can tell you. GoG doesn't care at all!

All of you can keep holding your breath for changes until you suffocate.
Post edited October 29, 2017 by RWarehall
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RWarehall: So we get a community manager...one of the things she promised to do was investigate the downrepping problem, so I contacted her...
An GOG staff also lied to me at least twice.
He/she claimed that he/she double checked and make sure that they are working for the problems, while in fact GOG just do nothing.
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RWarehall: So this is the GoG who are supposedly "listening". If they really were, they
Now down almost a full 1000 rep, I can tell you. GoG doesn't care at all!

All of you can keep holding your breath for changes until you suffocate.
I'll be honest with you here, I suspect that what you were told was just stuff to keep you quiet about the rep, and despite it being fairly underhanded, I'm not surprised it was done. You frequently obsess over this imaginary number and all of us have told you time and time again literally none of us judge you by it, but instead by your posts. And there's a pretty simple workaround for the link thing since that, like everything else in this place, is broken at best. The only possible counter-argument that could be mustered would be "But new people will judge by it!", which is true, but realistically, how often does that happen? When was the last time we even GOT a new poster who didn't just show up to ask a singular question before leaving (and we'd be lucky if they even respond to the answer)? Not to mention that there's bound to be a slight disconnect/something clicking in their brains if they see a supposedly "bad" user post something polite and informative.
I could even go into the fact that, on top of whatever scamming has happened to you and I sympathize with, you lose a lot of your rep from just being you. Half your posts in this place are spiteful, vitriol-filled rants that make it hard to agree with you even if you're right about whatever you're talking about. I've seen you take multiple "low rated" posts and point to them as examples of how you were done wrong without taking into account the fact that the posts were paragraph after paragraph of expletives and rage. I don't doubt you're on some kind of script as well, but you should take this into account.
Fables' entire job is pretty much PR, so it wouldn't exactly be in line for her to come out and openly say "we don't give a crap about rep" or "there's been multiple complaints about you associated with these downvotes".

Putting all that aside...
What was discussed (or at least, what I HOPE was discussed) were things regarding the STORE and how THAT could improve. It's not a big secret that GOG barely cares about the forum (if at all), and why should they? Seriously, ask yourself how much business they'd lose if this place shut down overnight without warning. 5% of the userbase at BEST would even notice, about 3% would actually care. It would be morally correct for them to invest time and energy into listening to the people who built them up, sure, but in terms of business, they could drop us all like a hot potato and hear nothing but praise for the rest of the company's existence as "the lovely people who let us play GWENT" or something similar. Idealistically, I hope they'd prove me wrong about this, but in reality? Yeah, right.
I didn't used to be this pessimistic on the subject, but looking at what's gone on for as long as I've been here, I honestly believe that the only way they could truly fix the forum at this point would be to wipe out the whole thing and start from scratch, which isn't even remotely important to them. What GOG invited the Magnificent Six for was more for their own purposes, i.e. gathering information from their most notable users who are actually intelligent and offer constructive criticism (rather than, y'know, "Where Is My Steam Key" Customer #814). At least, that's the best I can figure, otherwise they would've turned this into some big PR thing (after all, it'd be fantastic for PR and showing how much they "care about their userbase" - but they chose not to take advantage of it).
Seriously? Crying about rep? I thought if there's one thing everyone on this forum can agree on it's how worthless and meaningless rep is. But I guess some people really have nothing more important to worry about than their "score" on an internet forum. Sure, it's pointless to keep a system so utterly broken, but doing anything about it is the least important thing on GOG's extensive "to do" list.
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The problem with these forums are users like Breja and Zeogold. Anyone else has an issue and you see these two morons and others jumping in making excuses for GoG and otherwise calling everyone else's complaints meaningless. Apparently, only their own issues are worthy of discussing on this forum as they bask in their own self-importance...

If you two would have half a brain, you would realise that the state of the forums today are a direct result of a very poor decision in forum design. Ask any forum expert and one of the first things they will tell you when creating a forum is to absolutely not include a "dislike" button. Just about every forum that does becomes toxic. Because those who disagree use those as weapons. Look at the Huffington Post or Reddit as examples. This has been discussed in the past, but you two fools just want to dismiss it out of hand.

As usual, you have forum jerks defending their own use and others of downrepping people. Then other people downrep them. It's a vicious circle of toxicity. But hey, what do these forum experts know that Breja and Zeogold don't know better.

The problems of this forum can be summed up pretty clearly with those last two posts. Two arrogant people who think they get to tell everyone else what is and isn't worthy of discussion.

I explained what happened to me and it says a lot about how GoG is handling issues. Instead you two dolts choose to attack me and you act like you are doing it for the good of the forum. You two are nothing but trolls who don't even have the self-awareness to realise it.

@Breja And how many customers and forum members have we lost because they left after having their first posts downrepped? But no, YOU think it's meaningless. YOU know nothing!

@Zeogold YOU want the store discussed. Others want the forum discussed, but I guess the great Zeogold is the one to decide what is worth fixing and what is not.
Post edited October 29, 2017 by RWarehall
You want the two step solution GoG? It's pretty simple...

Step 1: Eliminate rep and downvoting.
Negative rep and downvoting just creates in-fighting on your forums turning them toxic. People with high rep feel their self-importance boosted to the point they think they can act on behalf of GoG in dismissing discussion. Remove rep and the in-fighting will diminish almost immediately.

Here is a perfect example where toxic posts are getting upvoted for no good reason:
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/the_2017_halloween_sale_scary_good_deals_6074e/post22
Do you see how people are upvoting someone for trying to bully and harass someone off the forums? Do you like the fact these "concerned citizens" are acting on your behalf telling people bringing up an issue that they should leave the forum and stop buying games here?

Get rid of rep! It may take a bit for the existing tension to die down, but without the weapons you have provided them, it will.

Step 2: And the bigger issue...LISTEN AND COMMUNICATE!
You need to be part of the forum. There is absolutely no reason you should need to fly in 6 users if you would take part in the forum. Back in the days of Enigmatic T, even though the forum was mostly unmoderated, he and others were around enough to stop arguments from stewing for days with one well-timed post that essentially said "Knock it off".

When people are asking for days whether a new release has a particular DLC included, you'd be there to give them an answer and get additional sales. When people have issues, you can talk to them about it. But since the Enigmatic-T left, "blue" presence on the forum has been lacking. What the forum and your PR and reputation needs is communication.

People are complaining about regional prices. They fear you will drop the Fair Pricing Plan. You need to assure them that will not change. They take silence as a sign that regional pricing will eventually become the price they will have to pay. If this is paranoia on their part (and not something you intend to do in the future), you need to communicate this...otherwise, they fear the worst from your non-comment.

It's not that hard, but you do need to assign the time and put in the effort. I think it would pay dividends. You'd keep new users who are run off for asking questions in the "wrong" forum by uncaring forumites. You'd show you really do care by being there. And misinformation wouldn't grow a life of it's own.
Step 3: OPEN BAR!
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RWarehall: *anger*
Is that seriously all you got from my post? I'm "arrogant" and somehow dictating what is and isn't worthy of discussion, somehow calling your complaint "meaningless" when all I said was not DEFENDING GOG, but giving reasons WHY they probably don't care, and simultaneously berating them for it just like I've done elsewhere (to the point people have asked me to shut up because I whine about them too much)?
And then of course there's the classic RWarehall "Everybody who I dislike at this particular moment is a troll and the EXACT REASON why this forum is going down the crapper!"
Dude, you're only proving my point about how angry you are all the time. You misread most of what I said and then disregarded the rest. I mean this not as an insult when I tell you that you should seriously take some time off of this place. Being here is wrecking you just like it's wrecked other people who've spent too much time here. I'd swear this place is some kind of Eldritch malestrom the way it ruins all the cool, funny people it sucks in too deep...

Edit: Calling it now, his post'll get downrated and he'll flip out six ways to Sunday over it and swear me and Breja scammed his rep.
Post edited October 29, 2017 by zeogold
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zeogold: snip
Zeogold. Go fly a kite! You enter this discussion calling me all kinds of names and you are trying to play the high ground.
I don't have to put up with your harassment. You come to this thread just to insult me. Get a life busybody.

I don't have to put up with your bs. You don't even see what what kind of jerk you are being.

This forum has serious problems. One of them is a scammer who, if I'm right, is also responsible for downrepping a lot of users on a daily basis whenever they give advice or talk about his bad trades. This scammer is probably the one who was downrepping TinyE, Phaolo, me and many many others and all you can do is jump on my case.

YOU don't think that is a serious issue. So what? Why the hell are you trying to dismiss this concern? Are you a GoG employee now?

Seriously, you need to get a life and let other forum members speak their own opinions.

Seems every time I post anything, I can expect the same three trolls to follow up my posts: Breja, TinyE (although he seems to be slightly better about it lately) and Zeogold, the Three Stooges. And the three of you don't even see how condescending and dismissive you are to everyone else on these forums. None of these jerks see how they are acting like trolls...clueless individuals.

And maybe you are the one who needs to "take some time away from this place". It's truly amazing how many people in this forum like to tell people they should leave the forum and think they are helping the situation.
Post edited October 29, 2017 by RWarehall
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RWarehall: Zeogold. Go fly a kite! You enter this discussion calling me all kinds of names and you are trying to play the high ground.
Names like what?
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RWarehall: This forum has serious problems. One of them is a scammer who, if I'm right, is also responsible for downrepping a lot of users on a daily basis whenever they give advice or talk about his bad trades. This scammer is probably the one who was downrepping TinyE, Phaolo, me and many many others and all you can do is jump on my case.
You mean the same scammer that had me in the negative hundreds for over 6 months straight? WHILE I ran the forum's biggest giveaway? That scammer, right?
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RWarehall: Seriously, you need to get a life and let other forum members speak their own opinions.
Am I not expressing my opinion?
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RWarehall: Seems every time I post anything, I can expect the same three trolls to follow up my posts: Breja, TinyE and Zeogold, the Three Stooges. And the three of you don't even see how condescending and dismissive you are to everyone else on these forums. None of these jerks see how they are acting like trolls...clueless individuals.
So now tinyE's part of it too, because he showed up to make a joke? That was "condescending and dismissive"? Would you feel better if more people showed up to say the same thing?
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RWarehall: And maybe you are the one who needs to "take some time away from this place". It's truly amazing how many people in this forum like to tell people they should leave the forum and think they are helping the situation.
You misunderstand. What I'm saying that you should take some time off because it's making you angrier and angrier until it's all you want to do anymore. Same thing happened to apehater, and tinyE, and CyraxPT (before he was smart enough to leave the forum for a while and calm down substantially)...I'm not even trying to insult you, it's more like I don't want to see you turn into that. Just look how pissed merely disagreeing about the importance of rep gets you.
Post edited October 29, 2017 by zeogold
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zeogold: snip
Why don't you read your own posts? Like I said, you seem to be clueless how insulting you are...

"frequently obsess"
"you lose a lot of your rep from just being you"
"spiteful, vitriol-filled rants"

Maybe you can tell me what these "wonderful changes" are going to be because they talked to 6 users under an NDA and how GoG is going to change forever...

It clearly isn't a priority to stop some script kiddie abusing their forum API...