Well starting up a new game for GF2, and i'm a bit surprised as i began. Most of the skills are cheaper, which i figured was a good equalizer. However this seems to follow different rules which makes getting powerful quickly a bit harder.

So stats cost 4 to upgrade instead of 5, and for the shaper the shaping skills cost 2 per upgrade instead of 3 (and 3 instead of 4 for fire shaping). You also get 5 points per level instead of 6 so it's seems generally cheaper.

BUT, there's a catch. After you get to level 3-4, it costs 1 more. Suddenly seeing the cost raising to 4 or higher seems an annoyance if you aren't aware it changes and can dump stats into stuff you'd rather spread to cheaper skills. I half hoped i could get my magic shaping to level 10-15 by level 3... So over specializing isn't quite as simple.

So, is there any other huge differences i should be aware of before proceeding past the tutorial? I may end up reading a walk-through for suggestions on stats/builds and playing suggestions and restart my game of 20 minutes or so...

Iirc, unlike GF1, in GF2 you can't chow down all the canisters you come across as they can cause violent outburst against "lesser beings" and being addict or not affects the ending. There is a threshold you probably want to find out and save before using each canister if you plan to remain "pure". Doesn't matter if you plan being addict and effect may be lesser (both ending and violent outbursts wise) depending faction you choose. Staying neutral and sane as long as possibible allows you to visit all factions, do most quests and there is a trainer who only trains you IF you are unalliged.

Also tainers can only give you two poinsts in any stat/skill and spending skillpoints is also considered as trainging so if you have increased, say melee by 2 using skill points, tainers can no longer train you in melee. Canisters, books(iirc?) and skills gained thru conversation (mostly completing quests) do not have this restriction (don't remember if they count as training thought when trainers are conserned).

Sounds complicated...

It is a bit convoluted and it seems I may not have rememberd the training problem for GF 3 quite right. It seems canisters and books (and quest rewards?) may indeed count as training when trainers are concerend (I'm in GF5 and havent played for 3 months now so details get mixed up in my head). According what I read, you should train skill first before taking any canisters, reading books or spending skills points (obviously this is not always possible especially in first play thru without help of walkthru). The creation skills (and lesser extend with spells) as you may already know that you get better version of creation at level 3 of particular create creation skill (cryora at level 3 of create fyora skill and so forth). So if you've spend all the alternate medhods of gaining skills first you may not even be able to gain third level of a skill. The general advice is to save before completing quests (when you go get reward), reading books or using canisters to see what they give and reload if it's something you've yet to learn thru training.

As for canister maddness, I did not find conclusive number (some say it's 6-7 others 10) but it seems to have limited effect on game play itself (mainly some minor alterations to flavor and conversation texts) and primarily alters the ending and mainly only your part of it.

This is one of the grievances I have with GF series. All ways to gain skill should be threated as egual and I should not have to hold of spending skills, reading books or using canisters out of fear I may not be able to train with trainer I may meet later. Other annoyance is that not all stats are shown, especially on creations so you are left quessing what some thing give (So spell protects me. How and how much? Does it just make me harder to hit or does it also reduce damage I make?).

So my advice is to read thru general info part of a walkthru before starting any of GF games.

I agree with you. I know a number of the scripts are in the data directory (or so it appears), I might be able to tweak it... not sure if that would work... But that seems like a lot of work, i'm more likely to quit the game from small annoyances... Actually right now i'm tempted to quit and move to The Witcher for a while, need something a little more graphically involved....

Well, it's good to take a break when game becomes a chore and come back refressed. I did it too. But do come back to them as games are definately worth it despite all their faults. No game is perfect after all.

Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily recommend playing through the Geneforge games all at once. Breaks in between are good. But they're worth returning to, as Petrell said.

I agree where trainers and such are concerned. Note that later entries in the series fix the trainer issue. (I believe from Geneforge 4 onwards? Don't quote me on this, just look it up at the official forums in the very useful "strategy central" threads.)

I love the cannister madness, though. One of the most difficult choices in a game for me. In other games, good or evil choices are typically no-brainers. But the cannisters offer both very real gameplay benefits, and very real story consequences. (Depending on your choices re: factions and such.)

Do not raise your shaping skills above 10. First, a level in GF1 is worth 2 in any sequels. Therefore shaping skills are a lot weaker. (They are not weak, only no longer overpowered like in GF1)

GF1 use a 10-cap system, a level beyond 10 give less return. For example, skill level of 12 actually give 11, and 20 gives 15. GF2 and later games are supposed to replace that with increasing cost. However, for shaping skills, not only is there increasing skill cost, but the 10-cap is still there. (only fixed at GF5)

Do the calculation and you know it is not worth it to raise shaping skills above 10.

Interesting...

Honestly i didn't feel that overpowered most of the time in GF1. Most of the time i was on par or slightly above my opponents, and sometimes clearly under them. Actually often in optional areas i usually died...

Well, except for maybe the 32AP glitch... That did make me a bit stronger than usual...

I mean shaping skills are overpowered. The end levels monsters are about level 20, you can easily pump your magic shaping into 20, and that alone gives the creatures you shaped another 15 levels. The bonus level is insane.

Actually, at a magic shaping of 10, shape half a dozen vlishes, haste them, that is good enough for the end battle in this game on the highest difficulty. You can achieve this at level 6 or so.

I played as a Shaper, and I specifically remember trapped areas I was just never able to get into...I lacked the skills to remove the traps, and I lacked the HP to withstand the damage. I just figured "Oh well, maybe I'll try Agent on my next playthrough." I like it though, that I couldn't get to a certain level where I could just steamroll past every area....definitely adds replayability to the game.