This game series just sucks. Ive tried replaying geneforge 3, 4 and 5 at least 5 times each and Im beginning to find that there's really no reason to play these games.

-First of all, unlike avernum, you dont actually get to experience the full game until about a quarter into it as you dont get creations that wont die in the 1st to 2nd round.

-If your playing a guardian (like me) your fucked as they get no benefit to shaping that a shaper cant do better. If your playing an agent or shaper, you should be alright as they are actually powerful classes. Not the guardian. The guardian is the weakest class in the game as they cannot shape like the shaper, nor can they cast magic like the agent, and 1 attack per round wont get you past half the game.

-Another reason the game series is lame is that you never know just how much you DESPERATELY need mechanics and leadership. At least in geneforge 1 and 2, this isnt so bad. But in geneforge 3,4, and 5, if you dont pump those skills just the right amount, you wont be able to get past that area. Another reason why this series sucks.

-The last and worst part of the game is that it says that you can make your character any way you want, yet that is the biggest fucking shit as if you dont specialize in the certain right skills that jeff knows your supposed to place, you will get destroyed again and again.

Ive been lenient with this game series, but after replaying the games 25 times and losing half way through, the maker is a fucking jew in this aspect.

I should add however that the avernum series (another series) is very good especially the reremake of the original exile which i am playing right now, so this is one major setback but not completely.

Do yourself a favor and dont buy any of these games. They are far from regular rpgs and even further from rpgs you can sit back and enjoy.

Thats why Im angry. Because the game/concept has always made me want to get into it. But because I've been unable to get past even a quarter of the game, Ive been so friggin frustrated with it. Every other series of games by the developer I've been able to understand and get through. The avernum series I'm currently enjoying as I enjoyed the avadon as well. Thats got to say something about the developer as this is his only series that i cannot understand. Ill wait when he remakes it and it is balanced. As it stands right now, the only way ill enjoy the game is if i play an agent or shaper, fucking lame.

Id play through the game if i knew what stats to pump for a guardian. The problem is everyone on the forums has different preferences. Some say guardians are supposed to use no creations and solo, other says the opposite. Its completely aggravating as i never know what to put points into and or which build to use.

I never played with guardian and it should be really difficult, but possible. In Geneforge 2 should be actually the easiest class (each point in parry blocks 5% of blows, so you can reach high levels in it and avoid most of them). For a Guardian, essence is 3/4 INT (1*INT for shapers), so using creatures should be doable. Moreover, you don't need many points in shaping skills, just what you need for the high level creations (for Rotghroth, if it is level 30 or 32 it doesn't matter much). Also, I'd keep my creations alive to make them level (above all in the beginning), especially vlish (I get them as soon as possible).
There are also items that improve shaping and magic skills. I'd also pump intelligence as much as possible, have good strenght and probably I'd sacrifice dexetery and endurance (and use augmentation instead). Considering how easy are the games on torment with a shaper (the only one I've played) I'll probably try a guardian for some more challenge. About mechanics, I finished the first games with 70-80 spare living tools, they should be enough for a guardian. Also there are pods, rods and spores, that I barely use with a shaper. Some points in missile weapons should help for wands (they are treated as missiles for the chance to hit), same for crystals, these things could be a lot more useful in the hands of a guardian than a shaper or agent.

Also, I envisage that the hardest game for a guardian would be Geneforge 1 (being 2 easier thanks to parry and 3 more balanced, you can also train magic skills paying for them). If you say that in Geneforge 1 it isn't so bad, then I don't think it could be much more difficult in the other games of the series.

My ability to respect any of your comments is severely impaired by your use of an ethnic slur and inability to use punctuation.

I'm not sure what your big problem with mechanics and leadership here, as their equivalents can be found in just about every good rpg out there, and there is always a way to proceed without high scores in those skills-they allow you access to mroe options, some with possibly better rewards, but at the expense of your combat related skills.

You mentioned you are playing a guardian. IMO they are one of the harder classes to play, esp as a jack of all trades. When it comes down to it, you are going to have to neglect some skills no matter what, and it sounds like you are trying to play as a Jack of all trades, which is not a good idea in Geneforge 3.

Also, I'm going to agree with Luned here about your ethnic slur. Highly innapropriate.

While I do have some minor problems about certain aspects of the geneforge series, such as the inability of companions such as Alwan or Greta etc to carry items for my low-strength Agent, the lack of any good items for the pants slot in G3 until around the final island, the boat system in G3 and the low-return for many of the non-artifact crafting recipies, certain limitations on dialogue options, etc, most of these complaints are what I would consider relatively minor, and don't really impact my overall enjoyment of the game. A lot of the RPGs on GoG right now have less than streamlined aspects of gameplay, but are classics despite this because of their virtues. In my opinion, the virtues of the geneforge series far outweigh the limitations, and it is one of my favorite rpg series of all time

.In contrast to Valdaintheking's opinion, I encourage fans of older style rpgs to go and buy it. At $15 for five games it is practically a steal even by the low pricing model of GoG. Personally I would value it higher than many of the games I have bought for $50 in the past, and there are five of them to boot! One of the best purchases I have made on GoG, by far.

Im sorry for the ethnic slur and yes it wasnt right, I am sorry. I get so frustrated with these games and Im not going to blame my lack of ability on my frustration but i will say that i am just not very good at these games and they drive me crazy. I think that if I am going to play any games by jeff, I am only going to play his games that have the leveling system in avadon and avernum: eftp.

Although I do like the geneforge series, I am not going to play something where its extremely aggravating for me to play. I hope jeff remakes the games so they are simplistic to play.

Ive had many problems with this series and the other Avernum Series 4-6. I think its usually when I reach level 10-15 where the levels stop meaning anything and I make a mistake and the game becomes unplayable.

You should try Knights of the Chalice. Its a dungeons and dragons rpg that allows you to create a party. Its a difficult game, but offers character building in a more traditional sense and is much harder to make a bad character. The game places more of an emphasis on strategy than roleplaying.

I can't really understand where you guys have problems. Don't like the guardians? Agents can be played melee and are stronger. Finally games that have a decent level of difficulty (except G3 that's too easy), why do you complain? I only play at torment level and I still find them rather easy, but guardians are more difficult. I don't think it's so difficult to figure out which are the best skills to improve. It's a shame if you like the game and you give up only because of this kind of obstacles. Check the Spiderweb forums and you'll find people who can beat the games with a guardian. About leadership and mechanics: I raise them up to 6 asap and then no more, you find equipment that can help you later. You never need more. And if there are difficult traps, there's probably (I'd say always) a way around or it isn't needed to progress in the game

I hate to say it but I agree. I tried the first game in this series as a Shaper, picking up the 1st game for cheap on spiderweb's site. Failed after getting into kazg as being a shaper sucks. You have no protection as any creature or person can rush through enemy lines of my creations and destroy me in 1 shot.

Counted my losses and retried the game as an agent. Specialized in intelligence, battle magic, quick action and a little strength. Failed in mid game due to dying in 1 shot from most creations.

What Ive learned-These games are ridiculously hard and I don't have the patience to play them. You can tell there is something wrong with a game when the creations that are SUPPOSED to be inferior in every way to the main character are killing each and every class in 1 to 2 shots. Its kind of sad really too because the story was kinda neat.

Well geez, if you find it too difficult and just want to enjoy the story, then how about just setting the difficulty level to easy?

Pardon my necro, but there are so few topics in this series, I figured why not just add to one that fits what I want to say?

I've played the very beginning of GF1 two or three times now, trying slightly different builds & strategies. I definitely want to be a Shaper, because in D&D terms I'm essentially a Summoner (and I like the idea of having others do my dirty work...had a blast in Arcanum as a master summoner with a small army by end-game, but that's a story for another game). Here's what I've found:

I'm totally engrossed in the story. Phenomenal from what little surface I've scratched so far, reminds me very much of Fallout 1&2 in many ways. But I, too, am growing tired of being one-shot killed. So I have no shame in lowering the difficulty to Easy.

I realize there are many purists who insist they play on Normal "as the game was intended to be played" or even push themselves to insane limits by playing on maximum difficulty. I am impressed that there are those who can successfully do this, and I am glad you get satisfaction from doing so. But for me, it just kills the flow of the story to have to keep saving/loading/re-loading so frequently. Clearly, I lack either the patience or the tactical skill to do this, and I'm ok with that.

So for anyone like me who feels the same...its ok. There's no shame in lowering the difficulty to Easy. There will be some who judge you for it, but who really cares? All that matters is that you enjoy playing the game.

Thank you, and thank GOG for the opportunity to play so many wonderful games.

If you want a relatively easy run through you can play shaper and max intelligence hard. I'd pump leadership and mechanics early to 6ish then continue leveling them a little so they end up around 10-12 mech 7-10 lead few points higher for later games. Other than that every point goes into intelligence except level the shaping skills just enough to create each creation as you get access to it (getting enough to make everything in only one shaping tree magic battle or fire is probably technically stronger but this is more fun and you will be plenty strong). when you get access to mass energize which blesses and hastes everything put 5 points in blessing magic so you can cast. Every other point goes to int and shape a massive army. This is kind of silly and I find guardians pretty fun as an alternative because I like caring about weapons and making more stat decisions. But this is a very simple build that will get you through every geneforge game. If things kill your character you can often just leave your shaper at the entrance and run your creations around the map without you. They often won't hunt your shaper down but if they do and you consistently have a problem with this get a few points in endurance.