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Fallout SeriesFallout 3 and DRM(74 posts)(74 posts)
(74 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted November 12, 2008
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awilliams: i've heard of people loosing drives due to suckurom. Im not going to chance it. This is why i hate sony. First they did it with music and now its the f***ing suckurom.

Really, you are mixing up securom with starforce. I hate the version of securom that comes with mass effect/spore/ etc. But this version is different. People keep mentioning changes. Let's summarize:
1) Disc Check only. So long as you run as an admin (which you should) no program has to run before or after the disc check. NOTHING IN MEMORY!
2) Daemon tools, Nero, etc can be installed. Some people, such as Dr.Colossus report they can even be running while playing.
3) Disc Check can be bypassed by linking directly to the .exe instead of the launcher (this will probably be patched out).
I hate any DRM, but as far as it goes, this is about the least invasive as you can get. So don't dissuade people from buying this game over a non-issue.
Posted November 12, 2008
while fallout 3's use of secuROM is one of the least invasive compared to other versions, it's still secuROM in the end.
secuROM will still be installed on your computer, you will have hidden drivers installed that can be exploited by viruses/trojans which can result in major security holes in your computer. you mention that daemon tools/nero can be installed/running, but i've also read elsewhere that such software has caused problems. i've also read that older dvd drives that have outdated firmware can cause conflicts with secuROM.
i think the point everyone is getting at is: why secuROM at all? bethesda just wanted a simple disc check, which can be achieved without using secuROM. people don't want that kind of software installed, at the kernel level, without their permission.
Post edited November 12, 2008 by illegalyouth
Posted November 12, 2008
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illegalyouth: while fallout 3's use of secuROM is one of the least invasive compared to other versions, it's still secuROM in the end.
secuROM will still be installed on your computer, you will have hidden drivers installed that can be exploited by viruses/trojans which can result in major security holes in your computer. you mention that daemon tools/nero can be installed/running, but i've also read elsewhere that such software has caused problems. i've also read that older dvd drives that have outdated firmware can cause conflicts with secuROM.
i think the point everyone is getting at is: why secuROM at all? bethesda just wanted a simple disc check, which can be achieved without using secuROM. people don't want that kind of software installed, at the kernel level, without their permission.

This version of SecuROM is the least invasive they make. Basically there are different potency versions of SecuROM available for use in your software. It used to be that this form was the one most often used in video game software (can't think of any examples off the top of my head). This version installs nothing at the kernel level. There is just a little disc check which is built right in to the launcher for the game, just like Oblivion. Basically, lately piracy has been seen as more and more of a problem so big companies (like, oh I don't know, EA) have started buying and using the "industrial strength" version of these anti-piracy measures. That would be the SecuROM used in such games as BioShock, Mass Effect, and Spore. As piracy increases, the DRM becomes more invasive, which causes more people to say, "Screw this, I'll just save my money and pirate it. That way I won't have to mess with DRM." I don't pirate myself, but I did buy Fallout 3 in a box from a store and the first thing I did was patch to the latest version and install a no-CD crack which is what I do with all of my recently bought box games.
This version of SecuROM is not as bad as what EA uses, and while I would prefer not to have to mess with DRM at all, I can understand where they are coming from in trying to protect their investment of time and money. Gaming may be my hobby, but it's the programmers' life.
Posted November 12, 2008
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Morslok: This version of SecuROM is the least invasive they make. Basically there are different potency versions of SecuROM available for use in your software. It used to be that this form was the one most often used in video game software (can't think of any examples off the top of my head). This version installs nothing at the kernel level. There is just a little disc check which is built right in to the launcher for the game, just like Oblivion. Basically, lately piracy has been seen as more and more of a problem so big companies (like, oh I don't know, EA) have started buying and using the "industrial strength" version of these anti-piracy measures. That would be the SecuROM used in such games as BioShock, Mass Effect, and Spore. As piracy increases, the DRM becomes more invasive, which causes more people to say, "Screw this, I'll just save my money and pirate it. That way I won't have to mess with DRM." I don't pirate myself, but I did buy Fallout 3 in a box from a store and the first thing I did was patch to the latest version and install a no-CD crack which is what I do with all of my recently bought box games.
This version of SecuROM is not as bad as what EA uses, and while I would prefer not to have to mess with DRM at all, I can understand where they are coming from in trying to protect their investment of time and money. Gaming may be my hobby, but it's the programmers' life.

i'm aware that secuROM provides different versions and that the version bundled with fallout 3 is one of the lesser invasive schemes. fallout 3 is using version 7.36.0006. i know that the secuROM website claims that their software is not installed at the kernel; however, independent reports have found secuROM at the kernel level when trying to uninstall the program. this point is the basis of the spore lawsuit, and spore came with secuROM 7.x -- the same basic version as the one used with fallout 3, just with extra protection features.
Posted November 12, 2008
My solution is to buy games with heavy DRM in digital distribution versions.
Sacred 2 has suckuROM but I bought it via Direct2Drive and now I don't have to deal with it, I just had to activate my version via D2D.
EDIT: However, some games I will not buy due to their DRM and the companies making them.
Warhammer has no DRM because it's an online game, so there's one game I bought from EA. Fallout 3 I bought via D2D so I once again avoided the whole DRM mess.
Sure, it takes a few hours to download your game, but you save gas money and hassle if there IS a conflict on your machine. So far, so good *knock on wood*
Hope this advice helps for those of you wanting to play a game but scared to.
-Cym
Post edited November 12, 2008 by CymTyr
Posted November 13, 2008
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CymTyr: My solution is to buy games with heavy DRM in digital distribution versions.
Sacred 2 has suckuROM but I bought it via Direct2Drive and now I don't have to deal with it, I just had to activate my version via D2D.
EDIT: However, some games I will not buy due to their DRM and the companies making them.
Warhammer has no DRM because it's an online game, so there's one game I bought from EA. Fallout 3 I bought via D2D so I once again avoided the whole DRM mess.
Sure, it takes a few hours to download your game, but you save gas money and hassle if there IS a conflict on your machine. So far, so good *knock on wood*
Hope this advice helps for those of you wanting to play a game but scared to.
-Cym

a lot of those digital distribution services have DRM with the download. for example, gamer's gate uses secuROM.
the only download service i trust is steam because steam marks all games that have 3rd-party DRM clearly on each game's page.
Posted November 13, 2008
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illegalyouth: the only download service i trust is steam because steam marks all games that have 3rd-party DRM clearly on each game's page

I just want to quote this for the truth. One thing I gotta give steam props for. They list if it has any 3rd party DRM. I really, really wish they were forced to put this on the retail box's as well.
Post edited November 13, 2008 by antibonk
Posted November 13, 2008
I don't really use any disk drive emulators so I don't get problems with securom. As long as i can see what they are running (not like a root kit) I dont really care.
BTW If you want to play without the CD just launch the game from the fallout.exe file in the fallout folder instead of the game Launcher. I havent found a way around the intro slides though.
According to what i read this doesn't go against the EULA.
Posted November 13, 2008
I've yet to have any trouble with SecuROM, no disk check at all on any of my games with it.
Some games that use SecuROM (Fallout 3 included) only need to activate online during installation, it's done in a non-intrusive way (I didn't even know it happened) and that's it nothing else. Some games (EA games for example) do require CD keys also. In the case of Fallout 3 the Keycode is only for Games with Windows Live, so it's only needed if you want acheivements.
Posted November 13, 2008
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gforcefan: 1) Disc Check only. So long as you run as an admin (which you should)
Which you shouldn't, if you're interested in using your computer in a safer way. If you get a virus as an administrator, it has full reign on your computer. As a limited user, it can't get nearly as far.
A "simple disc check" should not install anything onto your computer or try to examine any software you are running. The SecuROM version on the Fallout 3 disc does, as it complained about me running Process Explorer, which I always run as it is more precise than the Task Manager, and put a known SecuROM DLL into my system32 directory.
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gforcefan: 2) Daemon tools, Nero, etc can be installed. Some people, such as Dr.Colossus report they can even be running while playing.
Newer versions that have ways around the SecuROM checks, or newer versions that SecuROM doesn't know to or try to check, sure, they can be installed and be running without a problem. Older versions, especially in the case of bought software like Nero, which is not cheap and never broke the older versions, will get caught and prevent the game from installing/running, even if that software is uninstalled before trying again.
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gforcefan: 3) Disc Check can be bypassed by linking directly to the .exe instead of the launcher (this will probably be patched out).
I tried running the Fallout3.exe from the install directory directly after installing from the disc, because I heard this. It still tried calling back to the launcher and ended up having the exact same issue on my computer.
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gforcefan: I hate any DRM, but as far as it goes, this is about the least invasive as you can get. So don't dissuade people from buying this game over a non-issue.
It's not a non-issue if a piece of software intentionally denies you use of something you purchased, especially when it denies you off of a false positive.
I will agree that this is not the worse type of DRM. There is obviously much, much worse DRM out there (just look at 2K Games and EA), but there is still a better way. It's just a matter of finding it.
Posted November 14, 2008
You all make good points. Its exactly why im boycotting anything and everything with any form of suckurom. suckurom is suckurom. The limited activations do suck, but i'll take it with a safe system vs a "simple" cd check with suckurom any day of the week. One of the developers meantioned that the new tomb raider will not have suckurom on the steam version. I guess that means when im ready to get FO3 and TR, they will both be steam versions. At least i don't have to ban PC gaming all together.
Did you know that UT3 is DRM free (not even a simple CD check)? Why can't we get more like that?
I also heard a rumor that sega is working on a new DRM system in response to sony's garbage. If we have to have DRM i would rather have it from a company that is going to actually listen to the end customers.
Posted November 14, 2008
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awilliams: You all make good points. Its exactly why im boycotting anything and everything with any form of suckurom. suckurom is suckurom. The limited activations do suck, but i'll take it with a safe system vs a "simple" cd check with suckurom any day of the week. One of the developers meantioned that the new tomb raider will not have suckurom on the steam version. I guess that means when im ready to get FO3 and TR, they will both be steam versions. At least i don't have to ban PC gaming all together.
Did you know that UT3 is DRM free (not even a simple CD check)? Why can't we get more like that?
I also heard a rumor that sega is working on a new DRM system in response to sony's garbage. If we have to have DRM i would rather have it from a company that is going to actually listen to the end customers.

I completely agree with you. I don't have an issue with a serial key or disc check system. What I have an issue with are DRM schemes installing in hidden folders scattered all over my computer, installing Null Registry entries that are a pain in the ass for me to remove from MY computer, and giving itself higher Administrative access than I get AS my system admin so that when I try to delete it normally, I get pop ups telling me I'M NOT ALLOWED TO (it can be done, and I have, but it's a pain). Then this same DRM tells numerous users they have to uninstall software like Nero or Roxio that they legitimately own because it decides on their install that those programs mean they're a hacker. Or, it recognizes certain brands of optical drives as virtual drives, and labels THAT person a pirate. Result? Unless they delete software or get a new drive, THEY CAN'T PLAY THE GAME THEY PAID FOR! And what is SecuROM 7 doing in the background while it's lurking on your system? Why it's acting as SPYWARE for the companies whose games it installed with so they can check out the habits of game purchasers and what other titles they like to play (this is why it sets off certain spyware/virus scanning software). And does it prevent any piracy? All you have to do is look on a torrent site to see that, no, it doesn't...not even a bit.
Meanwhile, I don't see Stardock suffering from bad sales figures (far from it), Oblivion was a MASSIVE seller despite a lack of DRM (which makes their decision to put it on Fallout 3, especially after initially saying they wouldn't, all the stranger). Paradox keeps selling more and more copies of each release of their Europa Universalis and Hearts of Iron series with NO DRM.
Post edited November 14, 2008 by Crassmaster
Posted November 14, 2008
in bethsoft's defense, as stated before the dRM on fallout 3 isn't bad. BUT Who says they had a choice? Often times publishers decide these things, not devs.
Posted November 14, 2008
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deejrandom: in bethsoft's defense, as stated before the dRM on fallout 3 isn't bad. BUT Who says they had a choice? Often times publishers decide these things, not devs.

It's SecuROM 7...there are no activation limits, but it does everything else I just posted about.
I do agree with you though about who decides on this stuff...it's the stuffed shirt executives and shareholders that typically have no clue what they're even talking about. I suspect the devs at Bethesda were against it from the start, because that's the only explanation for why there is a SECOND .exe that is SecuROM FREE on the game disc.
Posted November 14, 2008
eh I'm not all up in arms about it. That's why God made hackers ;)
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This is my favourite topic
Community
Fallout SeriesFallout 3 and DRM(74 posts)(74 posts)
(74 posts)