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Elminage GothicVitality is really important!(34 posts)(34 posts)
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Posted July 30, 2015

Single target status spells actually are very reliable
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RyaReisender: Anything below 100% chance is not reliable. I think single target have around 75% maybe 80% success chance.
The thing is, anything that increases your chance of survival is worth doing. For instance, if you are fighting an Archer Polete, having your Fairy Bishop try to put her to sleep is worthwhile because there is the possibility of your Bishop going first and the sleep spell actually working. Having your fighters attack is unreliable in this instance because the Archer Polete might act first. (Essentially, there is no reliable way to survive this particular enemy, so any way to increase your chance of victory would help.)

Also, since nearly every enemy has nonzero magic resistance, having Magic Essence will always improve the success rate (unless the enemy has 100% resistance to that status).

As for spells, remember that Rafeireed competes with the row targeted instant death spell for MP, while Feireed competes with the combat usable revive spell. Weaker healing spells are useless without Hand of Kindness at high levels (unless the caster is a cleric with a 5 digit level or so).
Posted July 30, 2015
I've played the game for more than 70 hours, it already has been worth more than I have paid for it. I consider myself already having given it a real chance.

Also I have all maps explored with even more secrets than there are on the wiki. =p
I just couldn't defeat the final boss and didn't really have the motivation to grind when I already saw everything.

If really wanted I could probably just cheat, but y'know, sometimes I just want to play a new game.
Posted July 30, 2015
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RyaReisender: Also I have all maps explored with even more secrets than there are on the wiki. =p
I just couldn't defeat the final boss and didn't really have the motivation to grind when I already saw everything.
Well, there are three bonus dungeons, all 3 are HUGE :)
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dtgreene: Also, since nearly every enemy has nonzero magic resistance, having Magic Essence will always improve the success rate (unless the enemy has 100% resistance to that status).
Speaking of magic resistance, I am still farming resist gear in Lords of Xulima new playthrough:) Did you give up on those mushrooms? I am getting ready to brute force through that place on Old-School Veteran :)
Posted July 30, 2015
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Sarisio: Speaking of magic resistance, I am still farming resist gear in Lords of Xulima new playthrough:) Did you give up on those mushrooms? I am getting ready to brute force through that place on Old-School Veteran :)
I haven't been playing Lords of Xulima that much. I think it is largely because of two factors:
1. Lack of infinitely respawning enemies. Sometimes I don't feel like making progress in a game and just want to get some more experience. Lords of Xulima doesn't provide that option.
2. The need to make permanent decisions at level up. This is, again, something that slows my playing down, since I worry about making the wrong decisions. (And I'm playing the game on the easiest difficulty setting.)

Elminage Gothic has neither issue (especially since mid-game character creation is possible). Of course, I quit (though I may eventually come back) because some of the bonus dungeon enemies (like the Archer Polete) are ridiculous.
Posted July 30, 2015
I have the same problems with games. Build decisions that are not undoable and lack of the ability to grind are two of the main reason why I quit games. That and games which too much text to read and too little combat.
Posted July 30, 2015
Undoable build decisions are fine if they are implemented like in Might and Magic VI, which has respawns and no level cap.

Lords of Xulima allows some build mistakes, but a lot depends on luck. I save-scummed Rat Cave entrance a bit, and got SKill book "Armors" from container at entrance - it saved my Cleric 3 skill points, which is quite a lot and allows me to equip few more pieces of gear with Defense and Resists. That book can easily make huge difference in survivability of my Cleric and there is just not enough skill points to invest in all such skills.

Btw, there is nothing to worry on easy mode in Lords of Xulima. Same big mushrooms can be taken out without any extensive preparations - just get all blessings and do few reloads if combat outcome is bad. Old-School Veteran ("Real mode") is different story though.
Posted July 31, 2015
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Sarisio: Undoable build decisions are fine if they are implemented like in Might and Magic VI, which has respawns and no level cap.
Different from game to game, I'd say.

I usually have a hard time to decide for builds, up to the point where I just can't decide and just quit. More often than not I decide to distribute all points evenly on all attributes and skills because I can't decide whether I want to be a fighter or a mage. While some games can handle this well, others will just be "You can't win the game anymore". Even if it allows grinding it's often not an option unless you really grind for hours.
Posted July 31, 2015
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Sarisio: Undoable build decisions are fine if they are implemented like in Might and Magic VI, which has respawns and no level cap.
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RyaReisender: Different from game to game, I'd say.

I usually have a hard time to decide for builds, up to the point where I just can't decide and just quit. More often than not I decide to distribute all points evenly on all attributes and skills because I can't decide whether I want to be a fighter or a mage. While some games can handle this well, others will just be "You can't win the game anymore". Even if it allows grinding it's often not an option unless you really grind for hours.
I like the way Avadon 1 and 2 handle it. There is a "retrain" cheat, which can be entered any time and allows you to reallocate your stats and skills at any time. (If you really want to, you can even do this during battle, but that seems a little silly.) Furthermore, later on there is a person who can give you the same effect without having to use a cheat (and with no other cost).

The Etrian Odyssey series had another interesting approach. You can deallocate skill points, but it will cost you some levels. Those games also allowed mid-game character creation exactly like Elminage Gothic, so you can try out a new build without having to delete or rest an existing character.

In Icewind Dale 1 and 2, and I believe Temple of Elemental Evil, you could permanently replace a character with a new one and use a cheat to give her the appropriate amount of experience. (Note that for IWD: Enhanced Edition you will need to load your save in multiplayer to do this.)
Posted July 31, 2015
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RyaReisender: I usually have a hard time to decide for builds, up to the point where I just can't decide and just quit. More often than not I decide to distribute all points evenly on all attributes and skills because I can't decide whether I want to be a fighter or a mage. While some games can handle this well, others will just be "You can't win the game anymore". Even if it allows grinding it's often not an option unless you really grind for hours.
You made me remember Yendorian Tales III (very good Might and Magic 3-5-alike game). You can freely distribute stat points on level up. Being clueless, i was distributing them wrong on 1st playthrough. game had no respawns and finite reagents for spell-casting (Nuore). Eventually I stopped hitting enemies by physical attacks at all, and then my supplies of Nuore slowly run out. I endured as long as I could until I got blocked by some Pillar, which demanded Gold to unlock passage (gold-hungry Pillars is a usual thing there...). I had no more Gold, so game was in unwinnable state. I used cheats, because I already went through couple dozens of dungeons, so starting from scratch was a terrifying idea (game is quite long)...

On 2nd playthrough I discovered game formulas and what stats are better to raise. Game became quite easy with proper stat distribution, world of difference. I hated it on 1st playthrough, but greatly enjoyed on 2nd.
Posted July 31, 2015
This discussion reminds me of Quest 64, which actually did something interesting: If you balance out your four elements, your staff will be stronger than if you don't. Unfortunately, the game is a bit imbalanced and all you need are water (for healing) and earth (for the overpowered Avalanche, Confusion (which doesn't do what you think), and Magic Barrier. (But how would you know that on your first playthrough?)

Interestingly, in the GBC "remake", Quest RPG: Brian's Journey, I reached the end without enough hit points. Fortunately, I was able to fix that by whacking enemies with the staff: Every 10 hits gives you 1 HP. (That's one advantage of typical "improve stats by use" systems over typical skill point systems.)
Posted July 31, 2015
Improve stats by use systems are the best. Especially when gaining a stat depends only on your current stat rather than total stats gained on all stats.
Posted July 31, 2015
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RyaReisender: Improve stats by use systems are the best. Especially when gaining a stat depends only on your current stat rather than total stats gained on all stats.
I can't remember much games with such systems (MMOs aside), especially being implemented right. The Elder Scrolls games have that, but they also have level scaling, so you'll be punished if you level wrong.
Posted July 31, 2015
Final Fantasy 2
SaGa (Final Fantasy Legend) 1+2
Romancing SaGa 1-3
SaGaFrontier 1+2
Unlimited Saga
Romancing SaGa Minstel Song
The Last Remnant
The Legend of Legacy
Emperors SaGa
Imperial SaGa
Wizardry 8
King's Field IV

...are the ones I remember.
Posted July 31, 2015
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RyaReisender: Final Fantasy 2
SaGa (Final Fantasy Legend) 1+2
Romancing SaGa 1-3
SaGaFrontier 1+2
Unlimited Saga
Romancing SaGa Minstel Song
The Last Remnant
The Legend of Legacy
Emperors SaGa
Imperial SaGa
Wizardry 8
King's Field IV

...are the ones I remember.
Problem with Saga, Last Remnant and Wizardry 8 is level scaling. Wizardty 8 doesn't fit your description as it is better to do level suppression and do other counter-intuitive things. FF 2 comes close to solid system though. Legend of Legacy is yet to be localized. King's Field looks more like Action game with RPG flavor.

I thought about something akin more to EverQuest 1 or even Ultima Online systems. Level scaling simply ruins all and any system of character progression.

There are also Wizardry VI, VII which had skill system and no level scaling, but biggest chunk of characters' power was from level (->HP, stats, spells, etc.), not skills.

So it leaves us only with FF 2 as a game with somewhat solid skill-based character progress system.
Posted July 31, 2015
We weren't talking about level scaling though, but stats increasing depending on your actions. This happens in Wizardry, if you use fire spells, you get better at fire spells for example. Don't need to gain a level for that.
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Elminage GothicVitality is really important!(34 posts)(34 posts)
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