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Dungeons & Dragons: Krynn SeriesParty tips for DKK(22 posts)(22 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 30, 2016
I just finished Champions of Krynn. What a great game. My first time playing it and it was a blast. Getting ready to start Death Knights of Krynn and wanted to see if my party needed any adjusting...

Male Human Knight of the Sword 7
Male Silvanesti Elf Cleric of Majere 7/Ranger 7
Male Qualinesti Elf Fighter 7/Red Mage 7
Male Qualinest Elf Fighter 8/Thief 9
Female Kender Cleric of Mishakal 7/Thief 7
Female Human White Mage 8

I enjoyed my party in Champions. My overall weakest member was probably the Kender. She really wasn't need much for her Cleric spells and found she missed many of her backstabs. Everyone else was great.
Post edited March 30, 2016 by cbarchuk
Posted March 30, 2016
Looks pretty good.
Except for me having a Dwarf Fighter instead of a Qualinest Elf Fighter 8/Thief 9 it's nearly identical to the party I used.
The Kender will be very useful in DKK against Skeletal Knight, since they can backstab with Hoopaks.
Posted March 30, 2016
I've definitely thought about adding a dwarf fighter to the mix. My elven fighter thief was a much better backstabber in my play through compared to my kender. He had more strength and better THACO. He hit harder and more often. He also leveled up faster. So I don't know. I'm actually thinking of dropping the kender. Am I crazy? If backstabbing is your main focus, seems to me a fighter thief is a better character for that job. Maybe I'm wrong. I do want to drop one or the other though.
Posted March 30, 2016
* Silvanesti elves are normally subpar compared to Qualinesti, but this is mainly because of the Fighter mixes. Rangers and Ranger/Cleric mixes are fine. Silvanesti are limited to level 10 Fighter, while Qualinesti can reach level 14, which means the Qualinesti can get the full 2 base melee attacks per round but the Silvanesti cannot (this requires level 13). Ranger is unlimited for both Elf types however (although it requires level 15 for 2 base melee attacks so you won't get this ability till Dark Queen as the overall level cap for non-Thieves in Death Knights is 14).

* I recommend your Knight remain of the Sword Order, if you're considering the upgrade to Rose. Rose is not, unfortunately, worth it in the long run. The only functional difference between the two orders is that only Knights of the Rose can advance beyond level 18 in Dark Queen. However, even Rose Knights can practically speaking really only reach about level 20, give or take a level or so, in Dark Queen. Without spoilers, the chief issue is that the vast majority of the XP offered in Dark Queen is in a late game area that offers no access to training, which means most of it is really quite superfluous as it gets lost to the one-level-only rule enforced by the Gold Box games. Had the Gold Box games used the level up system of the Baldur's Gate/Icewind Dale or the Neverwinter Nights/SW:KOTOR games, Rose Knights would have been less badly off (as you do not lose excess experience when you level up in these titles), but it's debatable it would make them very recommended even then (Warrior type classes improve very little beyond about level 17, meaning that the slower leveling of Rose Knights is perhaps not worth being able to have a higher level in the end).

* You might want to sub someone out for a Neutral Cleric, who's particularly useful during Death Knights. The Krynn series lays it on THICK with the level draining undead from here on out, and only Neutral Clerics can get the Restoration spell during Death Knights (they gain level 7 slots at level 12, while Good Clerics do not get their level 7 slots until a level - I forget offhand now if it was 15 or 16 - not accessible until Dark Queen).

* You're pretty light on spell casters in general; the Gold Box games are not especially kind to such parties as you get into the higher levels, and the Krynn series perhaps least of all (with the large numbers of level drainers you *really* want lots of AoE nuking capacity; additionally, when you get to Dark Queen you'll find that virtually every enemy - except mercifully Vampire Mages - who sports Mage spells knows Delayed Blast Fireball and will cast it at the very first opportunity, often for 20 or more dice of damage. The ONLY way you can survive this *and* be in a condition to respond in kind is via the Mage spell Fire Shield, and even that's not a guarantee, so you really want several Mages ...).
Posted March 30, 2016
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AurelianDragon: additionally, when you get to Dark Queen you'll find that virtually every enemy - except mercifully Vampire Mages - who sports Mage spells knows Delayed Blast Fireball and will cast it at the very first opportunity, often for 20 or more dice of damage. The ONLY way you can survive this *and* be in a condition to respond in kind is via the Mage spell Fire Shield, and even that's not a guarantee, so you really want several Mages ...).
What about the Ranger spell Protection from Fire?

(Also, while we're talking about Ranger spells, which magic-user spells can they learn? All of them, just the white robe ones, or just the red robe ones, or something else entirely?)
Posted March 30, 2016
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cbarchuk: I've definitely thought about adding a dwarf fighter to the mix. My elven fighter thief was a much better backstabber in my play through compared to my kender. He had more strength and better THACO. He hit harder and more often. He also leveled up faster. So I don't know. I'm actually thinking of dropping the kender. Am I crazy? If backstabbing is your main focus, seems to me a fighter thief is a better character for that job. Maybe I'm wrong. I do want to drop one or the other though.
In general an Elf Fighter/Thief will be better, but a Kender is the only one who can backstab with a blunt weapon, making them very effective against Skeletal Knights, which are among the most annoying enemies in DKK.
Also, Kender have the Taunt ability and can always be resurrected if killed.
IMO a Kender is certainly worth having in DKK, but not very useful in DQK.
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dtgreene: (Also, while we're talking about Ranger spells, which magic-user spells can they learn? All of them, just the white robe ones, or just the red robe ones, or something else entirely?)
All lvl 1-2 magic spells in my experince, in addition to their Druid spells.
Post edited March 30, 2016 by PetrusOctavianus
Posted March 30, 2016
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cbarchuk: I've definitely thought about adding a dwarf fighter to the mix. My elven fighter thief was a much better backstabber in my play through compared to my kender. He had more strength and better THACO. He hit harder and more often. He also leveled up faster. So I don't know. I'm actually thinking of dropping the kender. Am I crazy? If backstabbing is your main focus, seems to me a fighter thief is a better character for that job. Maybe I'm wrong. I do want to drop one or the other though.
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PetrusOctavianus: In general an Elf Fighter/Thief will be better, but a Kender is the only one who can backstab with a blunt weapon, making them very effective against Skeletal Knights, which are among the most annoying enemies in DKK.
Also, Kender have the Taunt ability and can always be resurrected if killed.
IMO a Kender is certainly worth having in DKK, but not very useful in DQK.
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dtgreene: (Also, while we're talking about Ranger spells, which magic-user spells can they learn? All of them, just the white robe ones, or just the red robe ones, or something else entirely?)
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PetrusOctavianus: All lvl 1-2 magic spells in my experince, in addition to their Druid spells.
Good point on the blunt weapon. I will give it some thought. You did mention that replacing the Kender in DQK would be a good idea. Why is that?
Posted March 30, 2016
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AurelianDragon: additionally, when you get to Dark Queen you'll find that virtually every enemy - except mercifully Vampire Mages - who sports Mage spells knows Delayed Blast Fireball and will cast it at the very first opportunity, often for 20 or more dice of damage. The ONLY way you can survive this *and* be in a condition to respond in kind is via the Mage spell Fire Shield, and even that's not a guarantee, so you really want several Mages ...).
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dtgreene: What about the Ranger spell Protection from Fire?

(Also, while we're talking about Ranger spells, which magic-user spells can they learn? All of them, just the white robe ones, or just the red robe ones, or something else entirely?)
Protection from Fire can mitigate dragon breath and even D.B.F., but only if it's cast on the Ranger.

Unfortunately, this doesn't leave you with a lot of options in terms of retaliation (the best offensive spell you can get on a character with Ranger levels is Blade Barrier, which is certainly quite powerful but the range and AoE are not favourable, and in the case of the Dark Queen mages you are not usually close enough).

And you can't tarry in those fights because some of the enemy mages have up to three D.B.F.'s each, and anyone not a Ranger with Protection from Fire or a Mage with Fire Shield is most likely going to be ashes by then (Resist Fire isn't much of a match for multiple castings of a spell that can deal 90+ damage on a failed save ... especially with Krynn characters typically sporting considerably lower HP than high level Realms Gold Box characters). Assuming they're not, the next step is Lightning Bolt, which hits nearly as hard and again only a Mage can offer any resistance ...
Posted March 30, 2016
So how would compare combat overall between DQK and PoD? I mean if it just comes down to slinging fireballs then that doesn't sound fun. I'm currently playing Secret of the Silver Blades and I've definitely enjoyed the Realms series and the Krynn series but they feel different. I can't quite put my finger on it .
Posted March 31, 2016
Delayed blast fireball is the most powerful spell in Dark Queen of Krynn. But there are now more battles where simply spamming fireballs doesn't work than in Pools of Darkness.

If you keep your kender using enlarge on her will increase her combat efficiency a lot, she'll still be not very useful in Dark Queen of Krynn.

Now it's the time to decide which party you'll keep until the end. Newly created characters won't be weaker than the old ones. Your party will definitely be powerful enough for Dark Queen of Krynn, even if you don't change anything.
Post edited March 31, 2016 by kmonster
Posted March 31, 2016
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kmonster: Delayed blast fireball is the most powerful spell in Dark Queen of Krynn. But there are now more battles where simply spamming fireballs doesn't work than in Pools of Darkness.

If you keep your kender using enlarge on her will increase her combat efficiency a lot, she'll still be not very useful in Dark Queen of Krynn.

Now it's the time to decide which party you'll keep until the end. Newly created characters won't be weaker than the old ones. Your party will definitely be powerful enough for Dark Queen of Krynn, even if you don't change anything.
Hey K, so are you saying the end game battles are more tactical in Dark Queen compared to Pools of Darkness? Also is the reason my Kender will become less useful because of her low Cleric levels? Or will backstabbing become less useful in Dark Queen?
Posted March 31, 2016
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kmonster: Delayed blast fireball is the most powerful spell in Dark Queen of Krynn. But there are now more battles where simply spamming fireballs doesn't work than in Pools of Darkness.

If you keep your kender using enlarge on her will increase her combat efficiency a lot, she'll still be not very useful in Dark Queen of Krynn.

Now it's the time to decide which party you'll keep until the end. Newly created characters won't be weaker than the old ones. Your party will definitely be powerful enough for Dark Queen of Krynn, even if you don't change anything.
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cbarchuk: Hey K, so are you saying the end game battles are more tactical in Dark Queen compared to Pools of Darkness? Also is the reason my Kender will become less useful because of her low Cleric levels? Or will backstabbing become less useful in Dark Queen?
Considerably more tactical in Dark Queen.

I'm not sure why your Kender would be less useful in Dark Queen, although a couple of things must be noted:

a) if ever your kender is level drained, after restoration she will no longer be able to cast level 6 spells. (This is not, in fact, a bug, rather you should never have received these spell slots in the first place as you are supposed to have 17 Wisdom to do so, but Death Knights forgot to implement the rule. Dark Queen does, but only upon a change in your cleric level, and as you will max this out in DKK the only way that will change is via level draining)

b) Backstabbing is considerably more double-edged in Dark Queen. On the one hand, it's a lot more useful, because there are A LOT more enemies in Dark Queen that pose significant danger on an individual basis (i.e., specific enemies that you would like to eliminate especially quickly, as compared to most Gold Box where it's mostly about groups en masse), and a number of these have extremely low AC and very high magic resistance. On the other hand, a lot more enemies in Dark Queen are quite a lot more dangerous to be in the melee vicinity of, and death effects are a thing - oh yes, death effects are a thing ...
Posted March 31, 2016
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cbarchuk: Hey K, so are you saying the end game battles are more tactical in Dark Queen compared to Pools of Darkness? Also is the reason my Kender will become less useful because of her low Cleric levels? Or will backstabbing become less useful in Dark Queen?
A little more tactical, but you'll still be happy if you're able to wipe out standard mobs quickly with delayed blast fireballs.
To be honest I didn't bother much with backstabbing in DQ and I had 5 other characters which could cast level 7 cleric spells so my Kender's level 1-6 spells weren't really needed. Be sure to memorize the right level 6 spells before importing into DQ, you won't be able to change them.
Posted March 31, 2016
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cbarchuk: You did mention that replacing the Kender in DQK would be a good idea. Why is that?
Backstabbing is not as useful, since you meet less humanoid enemies, some of the enemies have Fire Shield, and most enemies will be high enough level to resist Taunt.
I kept mine for role playing reasons and for the continuity, though.
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cbarchuk: So how would compare combat overall between DQK and PoD? I mean if it just comes down to slinging fireballs then that doesn't sound fun. I'm currently playing Secret of the Silver Blades and I've definitely enjoyed the Realms series and the Krynn series but they feel different. I can't quite put my finger on it .
DKQ provides feels more balanced, with a more even difficulty, and spamming DBFs is not always the obvious tactic.
PoD is more uneven, with some easy areas, and some that are very hard indeed.
Both are great games, but personally I rank DKQ highest of all the Gold Box games.
Post edited March 31, 2016 by PetrusOctavianus
Posted March 31, 2016
Is it worth it to make my fighter/thief a fighter/red mage/thief? I'm not usually a fan of triple classes simply because I like having specialists to certain degree that do have weaknesses. I'm just wondering if some illusion spells would be a nice supplement for my backstabber. Maybe even use dimension door to get behind enemy ranks easier. My only concern would be slow leveling. What do you think?

Anyways I definitely want to make a few changes before I start. I really like having diversity and trying to roleplay as much as I can. I'm not a powergamer really at all though I do want my group to be effective. The Krynn series has, so far, been the only games that I enjoy multi classing. I typically really like playing singe classes. So I think I'm going to add in a dwarf fighter, again, for diversity. I'm still uncertain concerning my kender. My Elf fighter/thief was awesome in Champions while my kender was less so and I rarely had him cast a spell that my ranger/cleric couldn't cast. If I was to keep the kender, I would rather make him a single class thief. I assume that's probably a weaker move to make but I find the concept of a cleric/thief to be odd. It hurts my roleplaying sensibilities I guess. Would a kender thief be too weak (backstab-wise) or should I just drop the kender and keep my elf fighter/thief?


UPDATE: Okay I think I've decided on 5 of the 6 party members. How does this look?

Male Dwarf Fighter
Male Human Knight
Male Silvanesti Elf Cleric of Mishakal/Ranger
Male Qualinesti Fighter/Red Mage/Thief
Female Human White Mage

I just need help with the final member which I assume needs to be a cleric of some kind.
Post edited March 31, 2016 by cbarchuk
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Dungeons & Dragons: Krynn SeriesParty tips for DKK(22 posts)(22 posts)
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