Another bug? - with level-up for elf multiclass this time

The char name of the elf cleric 16 / fighter 14 was highlighted. So I went to training with 2,262,000 XP and trained to cleric 17.

After that, the XP were 1,999,999 - Is this a bug or maybe refers somehow to the reached maximum fighter level 14 for an elf?

Then, for a test I went to another battle with 16.826 XP for each char and the elf then had 2,008,412 - maybe from now on only the cleric half is calculated? But then why the decrease to 1,999,999?


The described bug (or feature I don't understand yet) was after I reloaded. Before, there was a decrease to 1,999,999 even before training to cleric 17 which was not possible due to "not enough experience" despite the name being highlighted.

Can't the level limits be found in the manual?

(Remember back when games came with manuals?)

Maximum level for elves with fighters is 14, for clerics it's the game's maximum (the journal does not state this, but the "spells per level" table goes up to 29).

With checking older character sheets, I saw that only showing half of the XP compared to single-class party members is normal.

Maybe the game switches between the classes, so the displayed XP at any time is for the class that is up next for level-up. For the first step that would be okay with the XP table, I had 2,262,000 and got cleric 17 for being over 2,250,000.

Then it switches to the fighter XP, where there is no more level-up so it shows the XP of 1,999,999 for just below the level that cannot be gained anymore. But here is the catch, 1,999,999 XP is already fighter 15 (level 16 needs 2,000,001). If the games counts the XP as far as the maximum level goes, it has to say 1,750,000 as 1,750,001 is fighter 15, the first I cannot get to with elves.

And if this the "XP display is linked to the next level-up class" theory is true, then after reaching (to no avail) next fighter level at 2,250,001 the display should change to the cleric XP of 2,500,000 for level 17 that I got now and count on from this (or from the XP I had at level-up, so I don't lose the exceeding numbers).

I might test this with the palace guard grinding I described, which I anyway planned until the single-class chars are at least level 30.

And it would still be a bug that although I had 2,262,000 and levelled up with cleric, in the try / savegame before it went to 1,999,999 before training and said I don't have enough experience.


PS. Not that I would not think one of you might know the solution, but I am kind of impatient to play on, so I create a new topic for this in order to widen the audience (and for future players).

Some high-level spells, escpecially given they are high-level, are kind of useless.

Summon Monsters: no way to direct where they appear, don't last long against current monsters.

Meteor Swarm: characters in front of the caster are also hit. Where are the mages normally situated? Right.

Cloud Kill: just like "Meteor Swarm", spell range is 2, area of effect is 3x3 around the target, so the mage has to stand on the spell area edge (no spare room for party members like "Stinking Cloud")

Cure Critical Wounds: curing 6-27 HP, so 16.5 average. Really? For level 12+ characters? I don't call that "critical wounds" any more.

In Baldur's Gate & Co a high level caster could summon an elemental and shatter the evil hordes with "Abi Dalzim"!

So mostly, the mages advance because of the scaling spells like Magic Missile or Fireball or by high level overcoming magic resistance more often.

Delayed Blast Fireball and Heal are awesome, though. Power Words too basically, but often fail.

Healing in AD&D (and Wizardry 1-5, which blindly copied AD&D) is poorly thought out. What we see is this, by spell level:
* Level 1: A spell that heals 1-8 damage. Weak, but it's a 1st level spell, and the healing is reasonable for this level. It quickly becomes not enough, to the point where it can be tedious to repeatedly cast is. To add insult to injury, you can go to all the trouble to cast this spell on a character who's down only 2 HP, and roll a 1, meaning you need to spend another spell to top off the character.
* Level 2: Nothing. So, you're stuck with that weak healing spell, and can't use these new spell slots for extra healing.
* Level 3: Again, nothing. So, you get a weak healing spell, then 2 spell levels of nothing. Healing is clearly inadequate here. (The fact that, in Pool of Radiance, you don't get any Priest spells above this level is one reason I don't plan on playing it.)
* Level 4: Finally get an upgraded healing spell, It's about twice as strong as the level 1 spell, and would have been nice much earlier, but at this point, it's still too weak.
* Level 5: Another healing spell upgrade. Finally, actually 2 spell levels in a row with healing magic! Too bad it's still too weak.
* Level 6: Suddenly, a full heal! So, at this point healing goes from incredibly weak to quite powerful (though still unfortunately only single-target, making it still a pain to heal from area damage). There's no in-between, and the gap is big enough to make it the only viable healing spell at high levels, and to make it so that you can't really afford to use other spells of this level (unless you have multiple characters with access to this spell level).
* Level 7: None, but at least it doesn't hurt as much as it did at levels 2 and 3. (They could have put a strong multi-target heal here, but unfortunately did not.)

Poor documentation again.

Mass Invisibility: is the effect random according to who it affects? I cast and only two of the chars were affected although all were adjacent to each other.

Protection From Evil: is the +2 bonus against evil opponents for everything, i.e. also magic or just for maybe melee attacks?

Delayed Blast Fireball: the journal only states that it is better than fireball. But how? Fireball is 1-6 damage per caster level. What about the bigger one?

Mace of Disruption: I read it is not just with bonus against undead but also against fire spirits? What is the rule here - against undead and elementals? Daemons?

When I have a character beside a monster and another char walks opposite, should there not be a bonus for attacking flanked or from behind? That's rarely the case.

Unfortunately, my best source for how spells are implemented in gold box is for Curse of the Azure Bonds and thus only covers up to 5th level spells. So I can't answer everything here with confidence, but...(I might get something wrong here. Someone correct me in that case, please.)

I don't know enough about Mass Invisibility to answer that question at all.

Protection from Evil adds (or is supposed to add) a +2 bonus to both armor class (obviously in 1st ed. that means lowering AC) and saving throws against any opponent with an evil alignment. As I understand it, that should also cover spells. I haven't heard of any bugs in this regard (but as we know there are a lot).

One advantage (I think) I know of for Delayed Blast Fireball is that it can cast instantly. You may have noticed the long casting time for ordinary Fireball. I can't recall if DBF does any additional damage, but it might. Perhaps +1 per caster level? (The spell's detonation can actually be delayed for several rounds if you want, hence the spell name, but I've never seen anyone who saw any tactical advantage in doing this.)

A Mace of Disruption is supposed to possibly instantly kill undead. It is not supposed to work (in that regard) on elementals, fiends, or anything else. (Mind you, the only true demons in gold box are three of Bane's lieutenants in Pools of Darkness, three of the game's bosses.) Is it possible that the game treats fire spirits as a kind of undead? (Can they be turned in that case?) Of course, what you read may simply be wrong.

Okay, the last question involves the complex concept of facing in gold box. I am probably going to get something wrong here, but I will try to explain: A combatant's facing is reset at the beginning of every round. That is, at the beginning of the round no combatant is facing any other. The first time a combatant is attacked in a round, it then faces the enemy that attacked it. (Of course, with the limited graphics, you will only see the icon turn left or right.) Until the end of the round, any attack from the exact opposite direction as the enemy that caused combatant's facing will be considered an attack from behind. For most combatants (i.e. hitting from behind) this means a +2 bonus on the to hit roll, but for a thief in proper armor, this translates into a full-blown backstab. I'm pretty sure backstabbing is the main reason most players concern themselves with this rule. (Also, in Pool of Radiance backstabbing requires an additional step making it awkward to do there, perhaps due to the tabletop rules. I've heard that backstabbing was improved in all later games to function as I described.)

I'm most familiar with PoR, but I believe this works best if the first and second attack against the opponent happen without the opponent having a chance to act in between, if the opponent acts between the first attack and the second attack, this will remove/change their facing.

That is correct about facing. I apologize for leaving that factor off in my explanation. The usual recommended procedure for backstabbing is to have the thief and their "stalking horse" (the character who will determine the enemy's facing on the opposite side from the thief) delay their turns to the end of the round, then the "stalking horse" attacks (in melee) from one direction and thief immediately thereafter backstabs from the opposite. When done correctly, backstab can do a LOT of damage. Some players are uneasy about it in gold box, though, since it can leave characters in vulnerable positions. There are times where it is probably worth it, however.

Slow playing at the moment, the game is kind of annoying.

After the grinding, I rejoined the plot, and in the palace there is a timed quest - stopping the egg ritual - that does not even make it clear whether I suceeded. It said the eggs lie broken and some draconians already hatched, although it could have been worse. Was I too late? Or did I suceed in preventing more harm? I played again and this time I was sure to hurry and got the same message, only then I was kind of sure that this is the positive outcome.

And now on to Hawkbluff with its passport stuff, maze-like areas and secret passageways.

Sigh.

All I can say is this game sounds real buggy. That will a good warning if I ever try to play it.

If I recall correctly, I once heard that The Dark Queen of Krynn's code was a weird hybrid, part old Gold Box engine and part something else, perhaps what was used to create Forgotten Realms Unlimited Adventures. That might have something to do with it.

I am now on my way to Blackwater Glade - Hawkbluff really was an annoying labyrinth and BAi'or has a magic shop that sells those almost useless healing potions (single digit healing; so I just bought invisibility potions for getting away from enemies if greatly wounded). But the battles are great as ever, Goldbox really shines here.

Do I need a mirror? I thought maybe there is a medusa or basilisk, but so far it is not the case.

A thought for D&D specialists: for every two character levels, "Magic Missile" grants one missile of 2-5 damage. So, does every missile have its own dice roll or is there one roll at casting and every missile does the damage rolled?

I don't have access to my Dark Queen of Krynn books this week, so I can't answer for sure but, from what I can access, I cannot find evidence of any medusae or basilisks in the game. There are vampires (as you already know), but their gazes are not supposed to be reflectable and they're supposed to be immune to charm anyway. I also don't know exactly how the game calculates Magic Missile damage.

This shouldn't be too hard to test.

If each missile does the same damage, then the damage will always be a multiple of the number of missiles, with each possible damage amount equally likely.

If, on the other hand, the damage is rolled separately per missile, then the damage amount will usually not be. Also, the damage will tend toward the middle of the range.