One interesting factor would be how easy or difficult it is to farm extra XP in these games.

For example, if it turns out to be easy to farm XP near the end of Death Knights, you could create the characters you want for Dark Queen and level them up then before you do the transfer. You won't be able to go past 14 (18 for thieves), but you can at least get to that point, which will allow you to level up to level 15 right at the start of Dark Queen (you just need to get 1 XP and then find a trainer).

On the other hand, unless you're willing to do a lot of reloading level ups, you won't have maxed rolled HP for the levels gained in Death Knights, but you can use Modify Character to start a new Dark Queen character with maxed HP.

One other thing to note:
* Knights need more XP in the higher orders. This means you can keep more XP at any given level up if you're in a higher order. Therefore, you can keep more XP into Dark Queen if you end Death Knights as a Knight of the Rose, who levels up very slowly. (Note that, in other situations, doing this second promotion might not make sense, but in this special case, it might.)

(Of course, as far as I know, XP farming might not be easy in Death Knights, or might be easier in Dark Queen. Perhaps someone more familiar with the games could let us know?)


There's one other interesting case of a character being really good in one game but not in the next, and that involves the Kender Cleric/Thief. From what I gather, there are a few differences:
* Tabletop rules dictate that you need 17 Wisdom to cast level 6 Cleric spells, including what is by far the strongest healing spell that isn't a revive (and the one that is a revive is a level higher). Kender can only get 16 Wisdom. From what I've read, Death Knights does not enforce this, but Dark Queen does.
* Apparently, there are fewer opportunities to backstab in Dark Queen than in Death Knights.
* Death Knights has a postgame bonus dungeon (a feature that I don't recall being common at the time). Apparently, unlike most of the rest of the Gold Box games, thief skills are actually important here, so you'll want a thief. (Otherwise, from what I understand, thief skills (other than backstabbing) are mostly useless in SSI RPGs.)

Correction: Assuming you do the transfer with tons of excess XP, you could transfer the character at level 14, train to 15, get 1 more XP , and then train to 16.

But as far as I understand, the excess XP get erased when training to a new level.

It's inconvenient that the games does not signal new levels. So we have to check in the char stats whether the XP are enough to train - but how with multiclass? Adding the two class XP requirements?

Hopefully, the later games recognice the saved characters from the predecessor (I mean technically, finding them in the folders).

With "sleep" I managed to explore the first regions of Throtl.

1. With a char unconscious (dying) once I had no option to bandage, could that be? I thought it was because a monster stood on his place but afterwards and with another char it was not possible either.

2. Turning undead only can be chosen how, once a fight or once a day?

3. Cleric scrolls can only be used directly, right? No scribing into the cleric's book?

Some of it, but not all of it.

Specifically, suppose you're level 14 with a 8 million XP. (More than a player would realistically get, but a number the game definitely should be able to represent.)

You then level up. You're now level 15, and are 1 XP short of level 16. In other words, you did just lose a lot of XP, but still have significantly more than needed to be level 15.

You gain 1 XP somehow, and you can now train to level 16.

Hence, when going from 1 game to the next, if you earned extra XP in the previous game, you can easily level to 2 levels above the previous game's cap.

I've read that apparently at least one of the later games has a bug that can cause the game to fail to signal a level up for a multi-class character in some circumstances.

This means that, at some point, the games did start signaling new levels.

Maybe the character had exactly 0 HP, so the character wasn't actually dying?

Yes.

Clerics automatically learn all the spells they're capable of learning, so there's no reason you'd ever need to scribe a spell into a cleric's spellbook.

(This, incidentally, gives clerics a huge advantage in D&D games where scrolls are scarce and mages don't get spell picks at level up. Dungeon Hack and the Icewind Dale games fall into this category, and both have other factors that make clerics particularly useful in those games.)

Thank you!

So now I am exploring Throtl with

Human knight
Hill dwarf fighter
Qualinesti fighter/cleric
Qualinesti fighter/cleric
Qualinesti mage (red)
Qualinesti mage (white)

Elves because of magic resistance and high or none level caps.

Maybe the dwarf was a bad idea and I have to start over yet again, because with a max dex of 17 he will always be one AC short. Sounded to me like not much, but as I understand every single number counts (as proved also in magic, when it gives bonuses of just +1)...

For multiclass characters the game automatically divides the XP, so the total shown is the amount in each class. If they have enough XP to advance in one class but not the other class, they can advance just that one class and then advance the other one later when they get enough XP.

My guess is that the game will count upwards from the lowest XP requirement, applying the relevant rules at each step without considering future steps.

So in both of your cases the first class would advance one level, and then the XP would be reduced so that it's 1XP below next level after that for the first class. I'm not going to test this, it's just based on a hunch.

Okay, but then I would have a fighter with 1 AC more but 1 level lower - maybe also too much for some battlles.

I am inclined to start over - might this party work or are more changes advisable?


When throwing darts, more than one will be used for each attack, right?

Dwarves are not ideal due to the AC as you mentioned (they also cannot get 18/00 strength), but if you really want a Dwarf I wouldn't stress about it.

Yes, multiple darts will be used for each attack.

Thanks you!

Is the party otherwise promising enough?

I just saw, a bow makes damage of 1-6 (big foes 1-6) but a sling 2-5 (big foes 2-7), so a sling might really be better, although in other RPGs it's vice versa. And no problem with ammunition.

I started new more than once but I don't know exactly: the games world only resets when starting with a party only of new characters, right? When swapping just one, for example the won fixed battles are gone.

That party would probably work, but I personally would include a Kender Cleric/Thief just for variety, particularly since there aren't any other games with that option to my knowledge. (Cleric/Thief is an option in some others, but not the Kender race.)

Their unique weapon, which apparently allows backstabbing and has unlimited ammo, and the unique Yell ability, are, I think, enough to make this race interesting for the first two games. Then there's the postgame dungeon in the second game where you might want a thief.

I noticed you don't have a thief, but I don't recall if how useful they are in the Krynn games.

Bows get two attack per round, so they are greatly superior to slings. Bows also have better range.

If you start a new game from the main menu everything will be reset. If you load an existing save and the swap around the characters then nothing will be reset.

1 Thief

Yes, no thief. As those games seem rather hard I want to get all the fighting and magic I can.

Never played with a thief by own choice e.g. in Icewind Dale or Star Trail (that is, I had Imoen in Baldur's Gate because of the story but opposed to Gold Box, Baldur's Gate is not that hard so you can get a story party).

I know, backstabbing. But for this, he has to get in position and after that he is cannon fodder. I know, traps, but I have to take my changes with walking into them with full HP and hoping. I know, locks, but I have mages.

In another forum someone claims you can't finish CoK without a thief, but as it is the only source I think he is wrong. Also, the manual does not say this as he claims.

2 Psychic attacks / charming

Is there a frequent risk of being charmed? Is there, as iirc in Baldur's Gate, a defense spell against it or a saving throw (based on INT or WIS)? Maybe it is not such a big deal so I can create human mages after all.

3 Saving throws

Also those against for example dragon's breath are not implementent, are they? On the other hand, Gold Box got praise for its rule implementation, so it might be there but for some reason undocumented.

4 Clerics and Mages

As every single number counts, I should maybe make on of them a Kiri-Jolith follower for the +1 THAC0, although the bonuses for Paladine and Mishakal are hard to resist...

Also, I am again unsure if I should use fighters/mages so they can be protected more. I think I have to get high class spells fast, but as I have to grind anyway for leveling the fighter/clerics, I might as well multiclass the mages too. On the other hand, grinding might not be easy depending on the game. In Throtl some random encounters only give 30 XP.

1) It's your choice whether to have a thief. The person who said CoK can't be completed without a thief is definitely wrong. However, in their defense (dtgreene, please take note), thieves are not useless in gold box games. Their skills, such as disarming traps, are not called for incredibly often but such uses definitely exist, so I wouldn't instantly rule out a thief. In gold box, backstabbing is, of course, a thief's main function and can be quite useful is particular circumstances. (Burly, Dracandros's dark elf lord bodyguard in Curse of the Azure Bonds comes to mind.) You are often right about the cannon fodder problem, as well as poor thief THAC0, though, so I would strongly suggest a fighter/thief rather than a single class thief.

(BTW, there really is almost no such thing as a story party in gold box. All your character choices are purely functional. The story occurs as part of your party acting collectively. The rudimentary romance in Treasures of the Savage Frontier might be a slight exception but only slight.)

2) Being charmed can certainly happen due to the charm person spell. In CoK, I believe the main enemy users of this spell are the 3rd-level Black Robe Mages, which means the risk is probably greatest in the early game. This is the only source of charm in the game that I can think of, however, so you shouldn't often have problems with it as long as you make sure Black Robe Mages can't cast. Actually, you might want to consider using this spell yourself once you have options beyond sleep. Many players feel its foremost benefit is that your new ally will draw fire from your enemies (though, of course, it only works on one enemy).

3) I don't think there's a bug that prevents saving throws against dragon breath. I've never heard of one. It's been a while, but I think I recall some characters taking half damage from dragon breath in CoK.

4) It's true it's best to collect as many bonuses (and avoid as many penalties) in gold box as you can, but I've never heard of anyone who thinks your choice of god to follow is critically important.