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Dungeon Keeper seriesDK1 AI(12 posts)solved(12 posts)solved
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Posted August 14, 2016
Could anyone confirm how good is the AI in GOG's DK1? I've read somewhere that it's broken in the DOS version and only Windows version was fixed. Is this true?
This question / problem has been solved by tristanlistimage
Posted August 16, 2016
I'm guessing that the most answers you are going to get will be something like "just use KeeperFX". And it's a pretty good recommendation, although the development has seized from what I've heard, so I'm not sure which is the last stable release.
For the most part it's very faithful to the original to the point of some questionable decisions like not having texture filtering or having the framerate locked at 30 without breaking the gameplay.

As for the differences - most of my experience comes from DOS version and I don't remember the AI being particularly stupid (outside of some really weird building decisions). When I tried the Windows version on new PC in 1999 I experienced a nasty bug with the camera in possession mode, so I just ended up playing the game in DOS mode.
Posted August 16, 2016
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Paradoks: I'm guessing that the most answers you are going to get will be something like "just use KeeperFX". And it's a pretty good recommendation, although the development has seized from what I've heard, so I'm not sure which is the last stable release.
Since the developer never made a final stable release, and everything is open source, I made a final stable release. You can find it here: https://keeperklan.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=121
Posted August 16, 2016
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Paradoks: I'm guessing that the most answers you are going to get will be something like "just use KeeperFX". And it's a pretty good recommendation, although the development has seized from what I've heard, so I'm not sure which is the last stable release.
For the most part it's very faithful to the original to the point of some questionable decisions like not having texture filtering or having the framerate locked at 30 without breaking the gameplay.

As for the differences - most of my experience comes from DOS version and I don't remember the AI being particularly stupid (outside of some really weird building decisions). When I tried the Windows version on new PC in 1999 I experienced a nasty bug with the camera in possession mode, so I just ended up playing the game in DOS mode.
Thanks. I don't want to use KeeperFX. I know it's great, but for me it's always "play the game first without any custom mods" rule. I might try it some other time.

I don't mind the absence/presence of D3D (which according to some made matters worse), but I would like to know what happened to AI.
I'm referring specifically to this post:
https://www.gog.com/forum/dungeon_keeper_series/dk1_it_would_be_really_nice_if_gog_consider_rebuilding_dk1_package_with_windows_version_of_the_game/post12

Franpa:
"the patch didn't fix these problems [AI] for the DOS version :/"

edorien:
"That's not entirely true. [...] The first improved the computer ai. This one worked on both the dos and windows versions."

From what you write, it looks like edorien was right (since as you say the AI was good in DOS), but I'd definitely like a positive confimation if anyone knows for sure.
Posted August 19, 2016
I am that way, too. KeeperFX makes a lot of gameplay changes and modifications to creatures to balance them, as well, and I am definitely not a fan of that sort of thing.

The AI in DK1 is not broken per se but it has issues that bite it in the ass in the regular maps. Some stuff I remember:

- It builds 4x3 training rooms. It doesn't discriminate on which kinds of creatures get to use its tiny training room.
- It trains creatures and then thinks there's an enemy attack and throws call to arms on them if they fight each other i.e. spiders and flies, and stages these epic battles in its own lair.
- It needs a lot of open dirt to figure out its room geometry, but that is usually provided.
- It tunnels to gem faces but will usually stop at just 1 face and leave other sides undug. Bad, bad.
- It gets passive if it is too wealthy. Stops attacking, stops mining. It should do the opposite...
- I think "too wealthy" isn't even a whole lot, like 30,00 and 50,000. So you get an A.I. whose balance has to be in a narrow margin in order to function best, and yet this margin is not necessarily enough to support the kind of spellcasting the AI likes to do during battles.
Posted August 19, 2016
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tristanlist: I am that way, too. KeeperFX makes a lot of gameplay changes and modifications to creatures to balance them, as well, and I am definitely not a fan of that sort of thing.

The AI in DK1 is not broken per se but it has issues that bite it in the ass in the regular maps. Some stuff I remember:

- It builds 4x3 training rooms. It doesn't discriminate on which kinds of creatures get to use its tiny training room.
- It trains creatures and then thinks there's an enemy attack and throws call to arms on them if they fight each other i.e. spiders and flies, and stages these epic battles in its own lair.
In the version I linked to two posts above yours all creature modifications have actually been reverted. And it has a much improved AI, where it indeed smartly assigns creatures to the rooms and it doesn't use CTA on friendly-fights.
Post edited August 19, 2016 by Loobinex
Posted August 19, 2016
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tristanlist: The AI in DK1 is not broken per se but it has issues that bite it in the ass in the regular maps. Some stuff I remember:

- It builds 4x3 training rooms. It doesn't discriminate on which kinds of creatures get to use its tiny training room.
- It trains creatures and then thinks there's an enemy attack and throws call to arms on them if they fight each other i.e. spiders and flies, and stages these epic battles in its own lair.
- It needs a lot of open dirt to figure out its room geometry, but that is usually provided.
- It tunnels to gem faces but will usually stop at just 1 face and leave other sides undug. Bad, bad.
- It gets passive if it is too wealthy. Stops attacking, stops mining. It should do the opposite...
- I think "too wealthy" isn't even a whole lot, like 30,00 and 50,000. So you get an A.I. whose balance has to be in a narrow margin in order to function best, and yet this margin is not necessarily enough to support the kind of spellcasting the AI likes to do during battles.
Which version of the game did you experience this on? Was this in the pre-patch (non-Gold) version? Do you know if this was different (i.e. "fixed") in the Windows version? Or what about the DOS Gold version (the one GOG provides).
Posted August 19, 2016
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tristanlist: - It trains creatures and then thinks there's an enemy attack and throws call to arms on them if they fight each other i.e. spiders and flies, and stages these epic battles in its own lair.
Ooooohhhh! That's THAT'S why it seems to randomly throw down CtA sometimes.
Posted August 20, 2016
I remember playing DK1 on my old Win95 machine, where the keeper AI was really bad (as it would not really attack on it's own and fortify the dungeon, so you would have to restart and hurry, to break in). I just installed and played the gog Version and was impressed on how aggressive enemy keepers were. So I am pretty sure, the improved AI is applied.

as for the grafics, press alt+r to asjust resolution ingame.
Posted August 21, 2016
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ZFR: Which version of the game did you experience this on? Was this in the pre-patch (non-Gold) version? Do you know if this was different (i.e. "fixed") in the Windows version? Or what about the DOS Gold version (the one GOG provides).
I have seen the listed behaviors in these versions: the DOS non-gold, KEEPER-95, and gog's dos version.

It is possible to "break" the AI by making well-intentioned changes to the map scripts, which is probably the source of these complaints; from what I can tell the AI is shabby, or maybe just quirky, but very consistently so.
Posted August 21, 2016
OK, thanks everyone for their input. It seems the GOG version AI is good enough, though not the most brilliant.
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CallMeEvil: I just installed and played the gog Version and was impressed on how aggressive enemy keepers were. So I am pretty sure, the improved AI is applied.

as for the grafics, press alt+r to asjust resolution ingame.
Thanks for confirming the GOG AI is not broken.

Regarding the graphics, I know about Alt+R to change resolution, the Windows version though offers something else: D3D graphics. From what I read, they were not necessarily nicer: they introduced stuff like antialiasing, but broke other things like some special effects and the eye-effects when possessing a fly.
Post edited August 21, 2016 by ZFR
Posted August 21, 2016
I am terribly sorry to make this post even more confusing, but yesterday I read, there were different Versions with D3D grafics. One with the impaired effects, you described. I am still trying to find different versions and will report back, should I find one. (I have got various copies of DK somewhere. I think 1 from a gaming magazine, 1 from a gaming bundle, 1 I downloaded a few years ago and the gog version I recently bought)
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Dungeon Keeper seriesDK1 AI(12 posts)solved(12 posts)solved
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