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As there are many people having a brake down over unconfirmed rumors or second hand information, I provide you with some videos from YongYeah who is a well known independent You Tuber who actually does some investigation about the subject instead of going the click bait way.

Cyberpunk 2077 Backlash Over Expanded Options Makes No Sense, Gender Not Actually "Removed"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8zfuIwaAbM

CD Projekt Clarifies Confusion That Third Person Cutscenes Were Removed From Cyberpunk 2077
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYk0FkxEr6c
Actually he shows that it isn't fully BS, he shows that CDPR has been either vague or being poor in the choice of words they have been using as in the video about TPP being removed there is a communication with the Cyberpunk team where they say that everything was going to be in FPP and they said yes when asked if TPP were being removed.

So it's more about the development team not communicating properly.
i have a question:
if it's true that there is no more tpp view,
then can somone explain to me what sense make to have more charachter customization
if i cannot see my character?
high rated
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Yeshu: As there are many people having a brake down over unconfirmed rumors or second hand information, I provide you with some videos from YongYeah who is a well known independent You Tuber who actually does some investigation about the subject instead of going the click bait way.
Ok, let's listen to him - timestamp 5:50 in video.
"Nothing has been removed. Things just been changed" And yes, thats it - THINGS BEEN CHANGED. Now we do not have "traditional" man & woman, but "progressive" male & female. Very subtle manipulation of concept - but hey, nothing was removed, right?
Wrong.
If CDPR just added these options under "advanced options" tab, people would be OK with it. But they REMOVED previous options entirely.
For some people it looks like trivial things, but - "small steps corrup" (c) Warhammer 40K. Or, if you prefer serious pholosofy here, it's called "Overton window".
My English is not that weel, so here's Wiki for you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window
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naruto2011: i have a question:
if it's true that there is no more tpp view,
then can somone explain to me what sense make to have more charachter customization
if i cannot see my character?
You can't see your character most of the time but mirrors will probably work, and who knows, maybe they'll add a holographic camera option to your appartment at some point.
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naruto2011: i have a question:
if it's true that there is no more tpp view,
then can somone explain to me what sense make to have more charachter customization
if i cannot see my character?
avatar
Arachnarok_Rider: You can't see your character most of the time but mirrors will probably work, and who knows, maybe they'll add a holographic camera option to your appartment at some point.
yes i also thought about mirrors but if that is the only time i can see my character then i can play with a default chatacter if exist, so i can spare the time to create a useless customization.
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Yeshu: As there are many people having a brake down over unconfirmed rumors or second hand information, I provide you with some videos from YongYeah who is a well known independent You Tuber who actually does some investigation about the subject instead of going the click bait way.

Cyberpunk 2077 Backlash Over Expanded Options Makes No Sense, Gender Not Actually "Removed"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8zfuIwaAbM

CD Projekt Clarifies Confusion That Third Person Cutscenes Were Removed From Cyberpunk 2077
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYk0FkxEr6c
Ok, so his argument is that gender is still there, just pick male body type with male voice type and u have male gender. Same procedure for female, and also we get additional option for anything between. So in the end nothing removed, just more options added.

And i dont buy it. U dont have to remove male/female labels to add more options. Also read between lines( as quoting Little Prince "What is essential is invisible to the eye".), if they change gender for body/voice types only it suggest that genders are irrelevant, they just social construct anyway, now we describe people as they body type, not they gender.
low rated
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wolfsite: Actually he shows that it isn't fully BS, he shows that CDPR has been either vague or being poor in the choice of words they have been using as in the video about TPP being removed there is a communication with the Cyberpunk team where they say that everything was going to be in FPP and they said yes when asked if TPP were being removed.

So it's more about the development team not communicating properly.
TPP is not being removed as it was never in the game outside of a few cutscenes.

The main problem here seams to be a disconnection between the actual developers and a PR spokes person. With allot of neutral language that says something while not confirming anything so to avoid claims of stating false info in a later time.
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naruto2011: i have a question:
if it's true that there is no more tpp view,
then can somone explain to me what sense make to have more charachter customization
if i cannot see my character?
There was never a TPP view in the game. It was stated on day 1. Only time a cutscene is in third person is in some story important cutscenes.
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Yeshu: As there are many people having a brake down over unconfirmed rumors or second hand information, I provide you with some videos from YongYeah who is a well known independent You Tuber who actually does some investigation about the subject instead of going the click bait way.

Cyberpunk 2077 Backlash Over Expanded Options Makes No Sense, Gender Not Actually "Removed"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8zfuIwaAbM

CD Projekt Clarifies Confusion That Third Person Cutscenes Were Removed From Cyberpunk 2077
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYk0FkxEr6c
avatar
rwf111: Ok, so his argument is that gender is still there, just pick male body type with male voice type and u have male gender. Same procedure for female, and also we get additional option for anything between. So in the end nothing removed, just more options added.

And i dont buy it. U dont have to remove male/female labels to add more options. Also read between lines( as quoting Little Prince "What is essential is invisible to the eye".), if they change gender for body/voice types only it suggest that genders are irrelevant, they just social construct anyway, now we describe people as they body type, not they gender.
It makes sense for the game setting where body modifications went so far that a simple male/female label does not apply. One of the gang leaders is a woman that's roided up so hard that if it wasn't for the voice she could be mistaken for a man.
Post edited September 03, 2019 by Yeshu
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rwf111: Ok, so his argument is that gender is still there, just pick male body type with male voice type and u have male gender. Same procedure for female, and also we get additional option for anything between. So in the end nothing removed, just more options added.

And i dont buy it. U dont have to remove male/female labels to add more options. Also read between lines( as quoting Little Prince "What is essential is invisible to the eye".), if they change gender for body/voice types only it suggest that genders are irrelevant, they just social construct anyway, now we describe people as they body type, not they gender.
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Yeshu: It makes sense for the game setting where body modifications went so far that a simple male/female label does not apply. One of the gang leaders is a woman that's roided up so hard that if it wasn't for the voice she could be mistaken for a man.
And u just labeled her as "female". So those labels does apply after all....
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Yeshu: As there are many people having a brake down over unconfirmed rumors or second hand information, I provide you with some videos from YongYeah who is a well known independent You Tuber who actually does some investigation about the subject instead of going the click bait way.

Cyberpunk 2077 Backlash Over Expanded Options Makes No Sense, Gender Not Actually "Removed"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8zfuIwaAbM

CD Projekt Clarifies Confusion That Third Person Cutscenes Were Removed From Cyberpunk 2077
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYk0FkxEr6c
avatar
rwf111: Ok, so his argument is that gender is still there, just pick male body type with male voice type and u have male gender. Same procedure for female, and also we get additional option for anything between. So in the end nothing removed, just more options added.

And i dont buy it. U dont have to remove male/female labels to add more options. Also read between lines( as quoting Little Prince "What is essential is invisible to the eye".), if they change gender for body/voice types only it suggest that genders are irrelevant, they just social construct anyway, now we describe people as they body type, not they gender.
You are assuming that classic gendering existed in the game at some point. I am not sure that is the case. It wouldn't fit very well with the world and what we know of it if it was.

You also seem to have this idea that gender is irrelevant if it isn't binary. That is not the case. Gender is still gender, even if it is less a binary option and more of a spectrum.

Gender is also not the same as biological sex and it really is not helpful that you try to confuse the two. And seeing as "gender" is generally a reference to the norms and roles related to sexes withing a particular culture or society rather than a direct reference to the biological sex, it is pretty much true by definition that gender is indeed just a social construct. Or an aggravating aspect of languages, which in turn is also a social construct.

In other words, what sounds like a really obvious joke is actually only funny because you don't understand what the words you're using actually mean.

Finally, what did CDPR actually change? Have they really changed anything in the actual game or just changed some elements in the character creation menu?
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rwf111: Ok, so his argument is that gender is still there, just pick male body type with male voice type and u have male gender. Same procedure for female, and also we get additional option for anything between. So in the end nothing removed, just more options added.

And i dont buy it. U dont have to remove male/female labels to add more options. Also read between lines( as quoting Little Prince "What is essential is invisible to the eye".), if they change gender for body/voice types only it suggest that genders are irrelevant, they just social construct anyway, now we describe people as they body type, not they gender.
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Arachnarok_Rider: You are assuming that classic gendering existed in the game at some point. I am not sure that is the case. It wouldn't fit very well with the world and what we know of it if it was.

You also seem to have this idea that gender is irrelevant if it isn't binary. That is not the case. Gender is still gender, even if it is less a binary option and more of a spectrum.

Gender is also not the same as biological sex and it really is not helpful that you try to confuse the two. And seeing as "gender" is generally a reference to the norms and roles related to sexes withing a particular culture or society rather than a direct reference to the biological sex, it is pretty much true by definition that gender is indeed just a social construct. Or an aggravating aspect of languages, which in turn is also a social construct.

In other words, what sounds like a really obvious joke is actually only funny because you don't understand what the words you're using actually mean.

Finally, what did CDPR actually change? Have they really changed anything in the actual game or just changed some elements in the character creation menu?
Sounds like Cathy Neuman with all those " You are assuming that(...)", "You also seem to have this idea that(...)" ;)

I assume that classic and any other genderizm is animal that never existed ;) its just political ideologist tool.

And i have idea that gender is presented as irrelevant, because its replaced by body type. And i have nothing against spectrum.

Also funny(or not) trivia. In Polish language - with is a first one for most CDPR devs, and me as well, gender and sex translate into same word 'płeć'. In some more specialized materials gender sometimes is translated as social - culture gender identity 'społeczno-kulturowa tożsamość płciowa' , but otherwise there no difference between sex and gender in Polish.

And to answer your final question. CDPR probably did not change anything in actual game. Its hard to tell, as im not on devs team. Personally im concerned, but we have to hold judgments till final product ready. Im hoping that great story line will make up for all fans currents upsets. Paweł Sasko and his team already proves that they have masterclass potential in creating great and engaging stories. Just hoping for the best.
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Arachnarok_Rider: You are assuming that classic gendering existed in the game at some point. I am not sure that is the case. It wouldn't fit very well with the world and what we know of it if it was.

You also seem to have this idea that gender is irrelevant if it isn't binary. That is not the case. Gender is still gender, even if it is less a binary option and more of a spectrum.

Gender is also not the same as biological sex and it really is not helpful that you try to confuse the two. And seeing as "gender" is generally a reference to the norms and roles related to sexes withing a particular culture or society rather than a direct reference to the biological sex, it is pretty much true by definition that gender is indeed just a social construct. Or an aggravating aspect of languages, which in turn is also a social construct.

In other words, what sounds like a really obvious joke is actually only funny because you don't understand what the words you're using actually mean.

Finally, what did CDPR actually change? Have they really changed anything in the actual game or just changed some elements in the character creation menu?
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rwf111: Sounds like Cathy Neuman with all those " You are assuming that(...)", "You also seem to have this idea that(...)" ;)

I assume that classic and any other genderizm is animal that never existed ;) its just political ideologist tool.

And i have idea that gender is presented as irrelevant, because its replaced by body type. And i have nothing against spectrum.

Also funny(or not) trivia. In Polish language - with is a first one for most CDPR devs, and me as well, gender and sex translate into same word 'płeć'. In some more specialized materials gender sometimes is translated as social - culture gender identity 'społeczno-kulturowa tożsamość płciowa' , but otherwise there no difference between sex and gender in Polish.

And to answer your final question. CDPR probably did not change anything in actual game. Its hard to tell, as im not on devs team. Personally im concerned, but we have to hold judgments till final product ready. Im hoping that great story line will make up for all fans currents upsets. Paweł Sasko and his team already proves that they have masterclass potential in creating great and engaging stories. Just hoping for the best.
The same linguistic oddity would happen in my language, where the term for biological sex and the cultural perception of the sexes are both the same. Which isn't to say that we cannot distinguish between the biological and the cultural aspect, but we either do it through context or through adding supporting words that clearly establish which one we're talking about.

But that is a sidetrack. In English, it is quite valid to say that gender is a social construct. It gets potentially weird when translated but that's just language at work. The underlying thought, that our understanding of what "man" and "woman" means is not inherent to being man or woman but rather something society has developed over time, is still valid regardless of language.

Regarding the story, I agree. I also do not think they actually changed how the story bits work. That just sounds like way too big a thing to get into this late in the development. More likely they just figured that if they change how the menu refers to male and female then boom, inclusiveness achieved. Which works because the underlying game already is very flexible in terms of interpreting who the player character actually is.

But yes, I do worry a bit too. Not so much because of the gender nonsense but because the aim is so high that it seems almost impossible to achieve. But one can hope.
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Arachnarok_Rider: The same linguistic oddity would happen in my language, where the term for biological sex and the cultural perception of the sexes are both the same. Which isn't to say that we cannot distinguish between the biological and the cultural aspect, but we either do it through context or through adding supporting words that clearly establish which one we're talking about.

But that is a sidetrack. In English, it is quite valid to say that gender is a social construct. It gets potentially weird when translated but that's just language at work. The underlying thought, that our understanding of what "man" and "woman" means is not inherent to being man or woman but rather something society has developed over time, is still valid regardless of language.
Ah, but that is untrue. It is not a linguistic oddity to refer to biological sex and cultural perception of sex by the same word, English does that too: sex. The term gender never had anything to do with the '(wo)manhood' or '(wo)manliness' of anyone or anything, until after the second world war.
Gender is nothing more or less than a grammatical classification of nouns into three groups (male, female and neuter), as you see in almost every language. They might as well be red, blue and green, or animal, vegetable and mineral, or any other trinity (such as quark or lepton flavours). The only relation gender and sex have, is that names for things of (fe)male sex, tend to be nouns of the (fe)male gender.
"The underlying thought, that our understanding of what "man" and "woman" means is not inherent to being man or woman, but rather something society has developed over time," has never been valid, and was not even widely entertained until years after the war -- my guess is somewhere in the 1960s.
YpingYeah's another CDPR chill, he'll say whatever grants him interviews.
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Maverick89: YpingYeah's another CDPR chill, he'll say whatever grants him interviews.
Please provide evidence outside: I don't like the guy.