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Cyberpunk 2077Vulkan API for Red Engine?(7 posts)(7 posts)
(7 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted January 30, 2021
is it doable?

will it help with optimizations?

what do you think about it?
Posted February 02, 2021
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frank0420cs: is it doable?
It's doable if the developers program for it.
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frank0420cs: will it help with optimizations?
Almost certainly not.
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frank0420cs: what do you think about it?
The game uses DirectX 12. Vulkan and DirectX 12 are both bare metal graphics APIs that get out of the way and give apps full access to the bare metal so to speak. The performance of the two APIs are more or less the same as they share common design approach, both being based off of AMD's Mantle. Vulkan is allegedly slightly faster potentially but not in a way that every program that uses it would notice, and not enough to give any appreciable difference in performance either way for the amount of effort it would take to support it.

The only way they're likely to support Vulkan would be if they want to do a Mac or Linux port of the game which seems extremely super mega unlikely at this point. Would have been nice if Red Engine supported Vulkan for a while now though but doubt they'll bother.
Posted February 03, 2021
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frank0420cs: is it doable?
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skeletonbow: It's doable if the developers program for it.
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frank0420cs: will it help with optimizations?
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skeletonbow: Almost certainly not.
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frank0420cs: what do you think about it?
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skeletonbow: The game uses DirectX 12. Vulkan and DirectX 12 are both bare metal graphics APIs that get out of the way and give apps full access to the bare metal so to speak. The performance of the two APIs are more or less the same as they share common design approach, both being based off of AMD's Mantle. Vulkan is allegedly slightly faster potentially but not in a way that every program that uses it would notice, and not enough to give any appreciable difference in performance either way for the amount of effort it would take to support it.

The only way they're likely to support Vulkan would be if they want to do a Mac or Linux port of the game which seems extremely super mega unlikely at this point. Would have been nice if Red Engine supported Vulkan for a while now though but doubt they'll bother.
DirectX was only ok for a time back in Directx 9C the rest have been the worst performing vs Opengl Renderers vs Vulkan when presented with the option, Publisher / parent ties prevent this and they really do limit them selves to the one platform, Not that this would be running on a Android device anytime soon.
Posted February 23, 2021
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skeletonbow: It's doable if the developers program for it.

Almost certainly not.

The game uses DirectX 12. Vulkan and DirectX 12 are both bare metal graphics APIs that get out of the way and give apps full access to the bare metal so to speak. The performance of the two APIs are more or less the same as they share common design approach, both being based off of AMD's Mantle. Vulkan is allegedly slightly faster potentially but not in a way that every program that uses it would notice, and not enough to give any appreciable difference in performance either way for the amount of effort it would take to support it.

The only way they're likely to support Vulkan would be if they want to do a Mac or Linux port of the game which seems extremely super mega unlikely at this point. Would have been nice if Red Engine supported Vulkan for a while now though but doubt they'll bother.
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wayke: DirectX was only ok for a time back in Directx 9C the rest have been the worst performing vs Opengl Renderers vs Vulkan when presented with the option, Publisher / parent ties prevent this and they really do limit them selves to the one platform, Not that this would be running on a Android device anytime soon.
That's kind of irrelevant really as the game uses DirectX 12 which is a completely different "next generation" API as mentioned. For the typical game running on Windows, DirectX 12 and Vulkan are for all intents and purposes the same thing both in how they get out of the way and let the application handle things, and how they work in general. I'm in no way defending their choice of using DirectX 12 because I personally can't really understand why any game company would use DirectX 12 instead of Vulkan currently since using Vulkan at least makes it possible for the game company to make their games available cross platform at least as far as the graphics API is concerned.

But, the original question had to do with whether or not Vulkan would improve performance via optimization and the answer to that is pretty much a steadfast "no", or at least "not in any way that is objectively better for any amount of work required to redevelop the game to use Vulkan".

How good or bad Direct X 11/10/9 or older may or may not be and how they may compare with OpenGL performance is pretty much completely irrelevant not only to Cyberpunk but to anything, since both OpenGL and DirectX 11 and older are now completely obsolete graphics APIs compared to the current generation APIs (Vulkan, DirectX 12, Metal).

I can pretty much guarantee that the only way we will ever see Cyberpunk, or The Witcher 3 running on top of Vulkan API is if CD Projekt RED suddenly feeis it is super important to port their games to run natively on Linux. While I think that would be cool, I highly doubt it is even on their list of considerations let alone any priority for them short or long term.

It would be nice to see them add Vulkan support to Red Engine for their next major game in 2025 or whenever it is though. Not for performance per se as there is practically no real difference in practical terms, but because Vulkan is cross platform and an open standard and I'd prefer to see companies support that rather than a proprietary API that only works on one platform.
Posted February 25, 2021
I would love if this game was done in vulkan once all bugs are fixed.
I'd switch to linux and forget windows forever.

Sidenote: From what I've heard directx12 is easier to program for... While Vulkan is more powerful, it requires you do a lot of things yourself instead of using built in stuff.
Post edited February 25, 2021 by ast486
Posted February 26, 2021
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wayke: DirectX was only ok for a time back in Directx 9C the rest have been the worst performing vs Opengl Renderers vs Vulkan when presented with the option, Publisher / parent ties prevent this and they really do limit them selves to the one platform, Not that this would be running on a Android device anytime soon.
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skeletonbow: That's kind of irrelevant really as the game uses DirectX 12 which is a completely different "next generation" API as mentioned. For the typical game running on Windows, DirectX 12 and Vulkan are for all intents and purposes the same thing both in how they get out of the way and let the application handle things, and how they work in general. I'm in no way defending their choice of using DirectX 12 because I personally can't really understand why any game company would use DirectX 12 instead of Vulkan currently since using Vulkan at least makes it possible for the game company to make their games available cross platform at least as far as the graphics API is concerned.

But, the original question had to do with whether or not Vulkan would improve performance via optimization and the answer to that is pretty much a steadfast "no", or at least "not in any way that is objectively better for any amount of work required to redevelop the game to use Vulkan".

How good or bad Direct X 11/10/9 or older may or may not be and how they may compare with OpenGL performance is pretty much completely irrelevant not only to Cyberpunk but to anything, since both OpenGL and DirectX 11 and older are now completely obsolete graphics APIs compared to the current generation APIs (Vulkan, DirectX 12, Metal).

I can pretty much guarantee that the only way we will ever see Cyberpunk, or The Witcher 3 running on top of Vulkan API is if CD Projekt RED suddenly feeis it is super important to port their games to run natively on Linux. While I think that would be cool, I highly doubt it is even on their list of considerations let alone any priority for them short or long term.

It would be nice to see them add Vulkan support to Red Engine for their next major game in 2025 or whenever it is though. Not for performance per se as there is practically no real difference in practical terms, but because Vulkan is cross platform and an open standard and I'd prefer to see companies support that rather than a proprietary API that only works on one platform.
There's already a Vulkan renderer for most new titles "WHAT WAS GOOGLE STADIA" be it passthrough or translated it's apparently well rounded, The only reason to limit this is contracts with MS and HW vendors with Studio heads / Publisher deals.

I've heard their lies since the inception of these companies it's nothing new for them to saturate the marketing with slogans and logos and releasing a turd "What was Dx10 - Dx12", They only created 12 to limit the switch if home users jumped to Linux with Vulkan Microsoft looses some eyes into a very large market DirectX12 is gimmick marketing and really fails to deliver.
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ast486: I would love if this game was done in vulkan once all bugs are fixed.
I'd switch to linux and forget windows forever.

Sidenote: From what I've heard directx12 is easier to program for... While Vulkan is more powerful, it requires you do a lot of things yourself instead of using built in stuff.
It's playable on Linux currently laptop runs it on a 3.9ghz i7 32gb 1660ti ram with Wine.

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=D3D-Proton-Variable-Rate-Shade

When they get DXR rt working be very good.
Post edited February 26, 2021 by wayke
Posted February 26, 2021
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skeletonbow: That's kind of irrelevant really as the game uses DirectX 12 which is a completely different "next generation" API as mentioned. For the typical game running on Windows, DirectX 12 and Vulkan are for all intents and purposes the same thing both in how they get out of the way and let the application handle things, and how they work in general. I'm in no way defending their choice of using DirectX 12 because I personally can't really understand why any game company would use DirectX 12 instead of Vulkan currently since using Vulkan at least makes it possible for the game company to make their games available cross platform at least as far as the graphics API is concerned.

But, the original question had to do with whether or not Vulkan would improve performance via optimization and the answer to that is pretty much a steadfast "no", or at least "not in any way that is objectively better for any amount of work required to redevelop the game to use Vulkan".

How good or bad Direct X 11/10/9 or older may or may not be and how they may compare with OpenGL performance is pretty much completely irrelevant not only to Cyberpunk but to anything, since both OpenGL and DirectX 11 and older are now completely obsolete graphics APIs compared to the current generation APIs (Vulkan, DirectX 12, Metal).

I can pretty much guarantee that the only way we will ever see Cyberpunk, or The Witcher 3 running on top of Vulkan API is if CD Projekt RED suddenly feeis it is super important to port their games to run natively on Linux. While I think that would be cool, I highly doubt it is even on their list of considerations let alone any priority for them short or long term.

It would be nice to see them add Vulkan support to Red Engine for their next major game in 2025 or whenever it is though. Not for performance per se as there is practically no real difference in practical terms, but because Vulkan is cross platform and an open standard and I'd prefer to see companies support that rather than a proprietary API that only works on one platform.
avatar
wayke: There's already a Vulkan renderer for most new titles "WHAT WAS GOOGLE STADIA" be it passthrough or translated it's apparently well rounded, The only reason to limit this is contracts with MS and HW vendors with Studio heads / Publisher deals.

I've heard their lies since the inception of these companies it's nothing new for them to saturate the marketing with slogans and logos and releasing a turd "What was Dx10 - Dx12", They only created 12 to limit the switch if home users jumped to Linux with Vulkan Microsoft looses some eyes into a very large market DirectX12 is gimmick marketing and really fails to deliver.
avatar
ast486: I would love if this game was done in vulkan once all bugs are fixed.
I'd switch to linux and forget windows forever.

Sidenote: From what I've heard directx12 is easier to program for... While Vulkan is more powerful, it requires you do a lot of things yourself instead of using built in stuff.
avatar
wayke: It's playable on Linux currently laptop runs it on a 3.9ghz i7 32gb 1660ti ram with Wine.

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=D3D-Proton-Variable-Rate-Shade

When they get DXR rt working be very good.
Oh interesting.
thanks for the info!
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Cyberpunk 2077Vulkan API for Red Engine?(7 posts)(7 posts)
(7 posts)