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You get sucked in by the graphics, are heading out on a mission or even just exploring this amazing world of Night City, then suddenly you accidentally bump into a single person in a completely accidental "oops, sorry wasn't watching where I was going" kind of way, or they even bump into you like that, or any of a dozen similar scenarios. But it's practically impossible to NOT bump into people since they are in your friggen way like EVERYWHERE in the entire game, and they aren't walking from point A to point B to actually do something useful, but it is very obvious they just teleport into the game to act as filler to make the illusion that the city is alive and teeming with city life. But they just walk a random path, and will change direction arbitrarily and walk somewhere else like a mindless robot with no end goal.

So you're walking around and bump into one of these mindless fillerbots and then they have this massive overreaction "She's trying to kill me!" or "no, no, please don't kill me I have a family!" or some other similar incredible overreaction, and it often causes everyone within anywhere from 5 meters to a half a kilometer away to go into AI panic mode and run in fear, duck to the ground and wave their arms over their heads etc. and then stay doing this for a very long time. Sometimes more than 20 minutes goes by and I re-enter an area and see people cowering in fear still all because I accidentally bumped into someone walking along the street a half hour ago.

Not only that, but the pedestrian NPC AI is so stupid that they will purposefully walk RIGHT INTO YOU because you do not exist in the game's AI that determines where ethey will walk, and then when THEY bump into YOU, then THEY panic that you're trying to kill them or some dumbass shit.

It is so horrendously stupid and annoying. You want to just walk through the city like a normal person and get around, but you have to either micro-manage how you walk to painstakingly avoid accidentally bumping someone in even the slightest way to avoid triggering neurotic panic syndrome wave across the whole city, or you just say fuckit and walk around like nobody else is there, bumping into people without giving a shit and not care about immersion at all, and just roll your eyes at how half the city is cowering in fear in unison and how absolutely stupid that is.

You SHOULD be able to walk around and have the pedestrians NOT walk directly into you. They should get the friggen hell out of the way when you're coming along and they are in the way, and when you beep the horn of your car it should send a loud clear message "GET THE F**K OUTTA THE WAY, I'M DRIVING HERE". They should also be programmed to not walk all over the few actual parking spaces in the entire game, and to recognize when a car is trying to drive anywhere, and notice it like a real human would and get the hell out of the way instead of walking like a brainless zombie from a game from 2002 era.

Seriously, the game's pedestrian AI is absolutely terrible, only thing worse is the NPC driving AI.

I was just on a mission where I had to stay close to someone who went into a crowded area, and not make a scene, but it was almost impossible to follow them without bumping into people and having everyone in the whole area go into deep hyper panic mode. It really ruined the immersion for me and after the 200th time that happened I felt I had to say something about it here at least.

It's so irritating to me at this point that I would half rather just have a game option to disable pedestrians entirely as their AI is just so terrible that they ruin the experience of playing the game rather than giving the illusion of a diverse city being alive.

It's crazy, just did some amazing quests in the main story line that were AAA quality top notch, then go outdoors to this D- quality pedestrian AI. How can a game have such high quality elements mixed with such gutter quality elements all in the same game? It's mind boggling.

Will they fix things like this I wonder, or is it baked into the game permanently and they'll just fix bugs that break quests and graphics screwups, but we're forever plagued with the worst pedestrian AI ever in a game? Who knows. I want to believe, I really want to believe they'll revamp all of the major flaws in the game like this that make these particular elements of game play just suck, but will they?

It needs so much work that if they do actually come clean and do the work, it's going to be a completely different game experience to play it in a year or two when the game is actually a finished game, if that happens.

I really do like the main story line and characters though. That stuff is all top shelf, but so much of the rest that ties everything together seems rushed.
A lot of the game feels like placeholders. As you mention, the pedestrian AI. But also the whole police/wanted system feels half baked, as well.
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skeletonbow: Not only that, but the pedestrian NPC AI is so stupid that they will purposefully walk RIGHT INTO YOU because you do not exist in the game's AI that determines where ethey will walk, and then when THEY bump into YOU, then THEY panic that you're trying to kill them or some dumbass shit..
Sounds like you were running around with your gun out.
If so, this panic is COMPLETELY REALISTIC!

If I'm running down the street and ram into someone, they then just notice I have a weapon pointed at them... it's reasonable for them to be afraid.


Yeah they are mostly just filler and it could use some tuning, but that's nowhere near the first thing needing work.
I still get ctd's pretty often when playing.... much higher priority!
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skeletonbow: Not only that, but the pedestrian NPC AI is so stupid that they will purposefully walk RIGHT INTO YOU because you do not exist in the game's AI that determines where ethey will walk, and then when THEY bump into YOU, then THEY panic that you're trying to kill them or some dumbass shit..
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ast486: Sounds like you were running around with your gun out.
If so, this panic is COMPLETELY REALISTIC!
This has absolutely no bearing on anything. If having your weapon out had any significance, there would be an option to not be armed, even with fists, you are armed. I have gone to all missions but the final Arasaka mission. Half the time I had a bloody katana dangling out, while others, the sniper rifle. Not a single reaction, word, or obvious attention getter. I crossed over 215 game hours.

There's wonderful background things happening, truly amazing city graphics, but ALL the active ai scripting is second rate.

A few weeks ago someone posted about 3D models -VS- sprite like objects. This is also a problem and much MUCH over done. You can stand on an over pass and watch the 3D models blip out and instantly (with some shimmer) a "sprite" comes into being. (or whatever the thingy actually is). The distance is so bogged down with bogus "traffic" graphics that is filler, it's insane it wasn't originally done as a joke, then put back in on one of the game delays to cover something else that didn't work.

The NPC driving AI is pretty good. Not great, but kind of realistic (except for the 90 deg turns in the city. Yes, there are some head scratchers, but over all, the NPC driving ai not to horrible
.
Post edited January 18, 2021 by mad_crease
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Zanderat: A lot of the game feels like placeholders. As you mention, the pedestrian AI. But also the whole police/wanted system feels half baked, as well.
Indeed, and there are even some graphic items in the game that say "Example Text Here" and things like that.
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skeletonbow: Not only that, but the pedestrian NPC AI is so stupid that they will purposefully walk RIGHT INTO YOU because you do not exist in the game's AI that determines where ethey will walk, and then when THEY bump into YOU, then THEY panic that you're trying to kill them or some dumbass shit..
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ast486: Sounds like you were running around with your gun out.
If so, this panic is COMPLETELY REALISTIC!

If I'm running down the street and ram into someone, they then just notice I have a weapon pointed at them... it's reasonable for them to be afraid.

Yeah they are mostly just filler and it could use some tuning, but that's nowhere near the first thing needing work.
I still get ctd's pretty often when playing.... much higher priority!
No, I wasn't running around with my weapon drawn. Anyone can test this for themselves and if you rack up 500+ hours in the game like I have you not only know whether or not your weapon is drawn or not and how people react to it, but you know with complete total abject unquestionable certainty, that the pedestrians in the game panic for any reason or no reason at all for miles around.

You can just bump into someone slightly without any weapon drawn and have them panic "she's trying to kill me!" and have other pedestrians quite far away duck into cowering fear with their hands waving above their head as if they've been beaten every day of their life with a club for not doing as they're told. You pass people a block away with no line of sight that couldn't have even known that you ever so slightly bumped into someone, and they'll beg for you to please not kill them.

If you have not encountered this yet then you either haven't played the game, or you have only played it briefly. Play it more and you will see.
Post edited January 24, 2021 by skeletonbow
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ast486: Sounds like you were running around with your gun out.
If so, this panic is COMPLETELY REALISTIC!
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mad_crease: This has absolutely no bearing on anything. If having your weapon out had any significance, there would be an option to not be armed, even with fists, you are armed. I have gone to all missions but the final Arasaka mission. Half the time I had a bloody katana dangling out, while others, the sniper rifle. Not a single reaction, word, or obvious attention getter. I crossed over 215 game hours.

There's wonderful background things happening, truly amazing city graphics, but ALL the active ai scripting is second rate.

A few weeks ago someone posted about 3D models -VS- sprite like objects. This is also a problem and much MUCH over done. You can stand on an over pass and watch the 3D models blip out and instantly (with some shimmer) a "sprite" comes into being. (or whatever the thingy actually is). The distance is so bogged down with bogus "traffic" graphics that is filler, it's insane it wasn't originally done as a joke, then put back in on one of the game delays to cover something else that didn't work.

The NPC driving AI is pretty good. Not great, but kind of realistic (except for the 90 deg turns in the city. Yes, there are some head scratchers, but over all, the NPC driving ai not to horrible
.
It's completely non-obvious and non-intuitive but you can "holster" your weapon by double-tapping the ALT key. The great thing about this feature is that it too is buggy as hell and half the time you double tap it it acts like you only pressed it once.

Now one might be inclined to think that you just have to get better at double tapping it properly within the proper time constraint, so before anyone suggests that, I've investigated this problem a fair bit. The game appears to consider 250 milliseconds as the double-tap interval according to comments found in one of the game's config files. I have programmed my mouse hardware with custom timed macros that do:

- Press ALT
- <insert delay>
- Release ALT
- <insert delay>
- Press ALT
- <insert delay>
- Release ALT
- <insert delay>

I've set the delay starting at 5 milliseconds and increased it 5ms at a time up to 250ms, testing it each one along the way and there is about a 50% chance that the game registers the double tap, and 50% that it registers a single ALT press and switches weapons. Nothing I've found fixes this problem so far sadly. Clearly another untested feature that the developers never used or tested apparently. :(

I'm going to try to hack the input config file to provide a single-button holster function to avoid this buggy double-tap crap. At any rate, you can use the double-tap holster misfeature as-is for now, just be prepared to have to dodge the bugs for a while until they fix it.
This is especially troubling for me at the parade. V just walks too fast, bumps into one person, as would happen in a real crowd, and suddenly people go nuts. I've had 3 women just crouch in the aisle and then I can't go around them, or through them or over them. I had to reload to just not bump into anybody. In Witcher 3 the npc just would have "oofed" or something, not this ridiculous behavior. And, I didn't have any weapons or fists out.,
I tend to make V sprint from A to B most times because it's easier to me than driving. She's on the sidewalk and bumps into people all the time and they just say stuff to the effect of 'watch where you're going'. But then again I don't usually check behind her. Now I also use double jump alot for fun and if V accidently jumps onto an NPC everyone scatters. Or if I take V's gun out and start shooting. At least as far as I can remember.
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skeletonbow: You get sucked in by the graphics, are heading out on a mission or even just exploring this amazing world of Night City, then suddenly you accidentally bump into a single person in a completely accidental "oops, sorry wasn't watching where I was going" kind of way, or they even bump into you like that, or any of a dozen similar scenarios. But it's practically impossible to NOT bump into people since they are in your friggen way like EVERYWHERE in the entire game, and they aren't walking from point A to point B to actually do something useful, but it is very obvious they just teleport into the game to act as filler to make the illusion that the city is alive and teeming with city life. But they just walk a random path, and will change direction arbitrarily and walk somewhere else like a mindless robot with no end goal.

So you're walking around and bump into one of these mindless fillerbots and then they have this massive overreaction "She's trying to kill me!" or "no, no, please don't kill me I have a family!" or some other similar incredible overreaction, and it often causes everyone within anywhere from 5 meters to a half a kilometer away to go into AI panic mode and run in fear, duck to the ground and wave their arms over their heads etc. and then stay doing this for a very long time. Sometimes more than 20 minutes goes by and I re-enter an area and see people cowering in fear still all because I accidentally bumped into someone walking along the street a half hour ago.

Not only that, but the pedestrian NPC AI is so stupid that they will purposefully walk RIGHT INTO YOU because you do not exist in the game's AI that determines where ethey will walk, and then when THEY bump into YOU, then THEY panic that you're trying to kill them or some dumbass shit.

It is so horrendously stupid and annoying. You want to just walk through the city like a normal person and get around, but you have to either micro-manage how you walk to painstakingly avoid accidentally bumping someone in even the slightest way to avoid triggering neurotic panic syndrome wave across the whole city, or you just say fuckit and walk around like nobody else is there, bumping into people without giving a shit and not care about immersion at all, and just roll your eyes at how half the city is cowering in fear in unison and how absolutely stupid that is.

You SHOULD be able to walk around and have the pedestrians NOT walk directly into you. They should get the friggen hell out of the way when you're coming along and they are in the way, and when you beep the horn of your car it should send a loud clear message "GET THE F**K OUTTA THE WAY, I'M DRIVING HERE". They should also be programmed to not walk all over the few actual parking spaces in the entire game, and to recognize when a car is trying to drive anywhere, and notice it like a real human would and get the hell out of the way instead of walking like a brainless zombie from a game from 2002 era.

Seriously, the game's pedestrian AI is absolutely terrible, only thing worse is the NPC driving AI.

I was just on a mission where I had to stay close to someone who went into a crowded area, and not make a scene, but it was almost impossible to follow them without bumping into people and having everyone in the whole area go into deep hyper panic mode. It really ruined the immersion for me and after the 200th time that happened I felt I had to say something about it here at least.

It's so irritating to me at this point that I would half rather just have a game option to disable pedestrians entirely as their AI is just so terrible that they ruin the experience of playing the game rather than giving the illusion of a diverse city being alive.

It's crazy, just did some amazing quests in the main story line that were AAA quality top notch, then go outdoors to this D- quality pedestrian AI. How can a game have such high quality elements mixed with such gutter quality elements all in the same game? It's mind boggling.

Will they fix things like this I wonder, or is it baked into the game permanently and they'll just fix bugs that break quests and graphics screwups, but we're forever plagued with the worst pedestrian AI ever in a game? Who knows. I want to believe, I really want to believe they'll revamp all of the major flaws in the game like this that make these particular elements of game play just suck, but will they?

It needs so much work that if they do actually come clean and do the work, it's going to be a completely different game experience to play it in a year or two when the game is actually a finished game, if that happens.

I really do like the main story line and characters though. That stuff is all top shelf, but so much of the rest that ties everything together seems rushed.
The NPCs are broken, poorly developed, even the wheelchair NPC stand up if you point your gun, there is no justification for such lack of care, whatever the priority.

Even the cars collison with objects close to the streets because they don´t do a well made curve, they are sliding in some sort of invisible and curve line, the wheels don´t even change position.

and I guess we have an issue hidden bodies, live or dead, they are appearing outside the containers, ruining the already poor sneak system.

The city is cool, but the world shows some sort of alpha stage, quite frustating.
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TheFinc: This is especially troubling for me at the parade. V just walks too fast, bumps into one person, as would happen in a real crowd, and suddenly people go nuts. I've had 3 women just crouch in the aisle and then I can't go around them, or through them or over them. I had to reload to just not bump into anybody. In Witcher 3 the npc just would have "oofed" or something, not this ridiculous behavior. And, I didn't have any weapons or fists out.,
Yep, I had a quest break due to this also. I was in a bar in The Glen I think and had to go into this room to get something to complete a quest, but something triggered everyone in the bar to go into panic "no don't kill me" syndrome waving their hands above their heads and one guy was standing RIGHT IN THE DOORWAY so I couldn't get in the F'n room, couldn't push him out of the way or anything. I mean I have a gun, I am pointing it at you and you wont move out of the F'n way? What is this 1999? I had to either kill the guy and run and dodge police and hide in the bathroom with my back against the wall so they couldn't teleport in 2 inches behind me, or exit the game and reload from my last save game and try again. I did the latter as I didn't want to deal with the police as a hack workaround for what isn't a bug per se but rather a bad game design choice.
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Zanderat: A lot of the game feels like placeholders. As you mention, the pedestrian AI. But also the whole police/wanted system feels half baked, as well.
avatar
skeletonbow: Indeed, and there are even some graphic items in the game that say "Example Text Here" and things like that.
avatar
ast486: Sounds like you were running around with your gun out.
If so, this panic is COMPLETELY REALISTIC!

If I'm running down the street and ram into someone, they then just notice I have a weapon pointed at them... it's reasonable for them to be afraid.

Yeah they are mostly just filler and it could use some tuning, but that's nowhere near the first thing needing work.
I still get ctd's pretty often when playing.... much higher priority!
avatar
skeletonbow: No, I wasn't running around with my weapon drawn. Anyone can test this for themselves and if you rack up 500+ hours in the game like I have you not only know whether or not your weapon is drawn or not and how people react to it, but you know with complete total abject unquestionable certainty, that the pedestrians in the game panic for any reason or no reason at all for miles around.

You can just bump into someone slightly without any weapon drawn and have them panic "she's trying to kill me!" and have other pedestrians quite far away duck into cowering fear with their hands waving above their head as if they've been beaten every day of their life with a club for not doing as they're told. You pass people a block away with no line of sight that couldn't have even known that you ever so slightly bumped into someone, and they'll beg for you to please not kill them.

If you have not encountered this yet then you either haven't played the game, or you have only played it briefly. Play it more and you will see.
Nope.
I run into pedestrians all the time when I'm running to and from the car to a mission.
They swear at me and such, but never had happen what you describe.
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ast486: Nope.
I run into pedestrians all the time when I'm running to and from the car to a mission.
They swear at me and such, but never had happen what you describe.
I've noticed not all the npcs exhibit this behavior. If you notice, when you have a firefight near npcs, some will be cowering while others are just continuing their business.
I have also run into pedestrians who have not reacted this way, but I have run into those that do cower and scream when I bump into them.
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ast486: Nope.
I run into pedestrians all the time when I'm running to and from the car to a mission.
They swear at me and such, but never had happen what you describe.
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TheFinc: I've noticed not all the npcs exhibit this behavior. If you notice, when you have a firefight near npcs, some will be cowering while others are just continuing their business.
I have also run into pedestrians who have not reacted this way, but I have run into those that do cower and scream when I bump into them.
Odd.

When I was watching, EVERY npc that wasn't a combatant just cowered or ran away, then cowered.

I have never seen the regular npcs do anything else... some of them continue their normal routine AFTER combat ends.... some just stay cowering indefinitely.
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TheFinc: I've noticed not all the npcs exhibit this behavior. If you notice, when you have a firefight near npcs, some will be cowering while others are just continuing their business.
I have also run into pedestrians who have not reacted this way, but I have run into those that do cower and scream when I bump into them.
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ast486: Odd.

When I was watching, EVERY npc that wasn't a combatant just cowered or ran away, then cowered.

I have never seen the regular npcs do anything else... some of them continue their normal routine AFTER combat ends.... some just stay cowering indefinitely.
NPCs around the city may show this routines:
- they walk.
- they run.
- they complaign.
- they get scared.
- they do little chat with each other.
- they are inside cars, but they don't show movements, it looks like the car is autonomous.
- they use food machines.
- they eat stuff.
- they stand and piss at the same time they look inside garbage. (homeless)
- they trasncend matter.
- they die and leave bags since 1.1

None of them have any type of response to your actions pressing (F), neither walking close or running and jumping like a mad man, other than reply very few words, get angry or scared. They spawn in huge quantities, this is a logistic nightmare to give to each NPC a place to live, sleep, that amazing trailer.

Unfortunelly it looks like the districts shows always the same spawns, we don´t have a X number of NPCs to each district, design to exist as vendors, guards, homeless, gangs, blablabla.. in a way where this packs of NPCs actually are habitating the space, with buildings to at least see they entering, no need of have every single fucking room open.

This old trick of continuous spawns and basic routines was impressive back in the first Assassins Creed, at least it was the first time I saw so many NPCs crowds in a city.

I like the design of the NPCs, some models are beautiful, but I wish these walkers truly part of each district, even if in less quantity.
Post edited January 28, 2021 by user deleted
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FTSO: None of them have any type of response to your actions
Wrong!

The first time I paid attention to an npc was when I had my gun out and inadvertently pointed at at a random npc on the sidewalk while looking at some thugs in the background who I was about to attack.
This was in day 1 patch.

The npc said something to indicate fear/etc and held their hands up.