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Cyberpunk 2077It could all be over for CDPR(37 posts)(37 posts)
(37 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted December 22, 2020
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Zanderat: Let's see if I got this right. They very same investors who pressured them to rush development to get the game out before Xmas are now suing them because it is buggy and not selling as well as anticipated because it was released too soon?
I'd just like to chime in to say that CDPR were under ABSOLUTELY no pressure to release this from the investors. All of the expectations of release were set by CDPR.

All of the delays, all of the choices around the production and release of this game are ENTIRELY down to CDPR themselves.

This is a management cockup, nothing more. The executive management at CDPR are entirely to blame for this, they didn't have to release it, it was their choice to.
Post edited December 22, 2020 by Tormentfan
Posted December 22, 2020
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J Lo: Let's not forget about the cry babies who threw a tantrum and refunded their copies each time the game was delayed.
Games shouldn't be pre-ordered anyway (unless it's a physical release and there's a high chance copies would sell out quickly).

CDPR themselves said not to pre-order the game unless you're sure what you're doing.
Posted December 22, 2020
plaintiff.
waaah ps4.

defense.
show's cyberpunk 2077 running fine on average build of current-gen PC.
show's small minority of two-gen old console owners requesting refunds.

judge.
case dismissed with predjudice.

defense,
countersuit for court fees.

judge.
the court rules all court fees paid by plaintiff.

*slam slam*

Next.
Post edited December 22, 2020 by siegeshot
Posted December 22, 2020
low rated
Wah, poor devs, wah horrible management story ad nauseum.

You know what I blame the management too -- for not firing at least part (if not all) of the development team ages ago. Please cry about how 8 years and millions of dollars wasn't nearly enough for the staff that actually makes the game to make the game.

If the game was announced in 2012 and you're management you should be having quarterly, bi-annual and annual reviews of the development process. If the 'product' was in the current shape it is now in 2016 after 4 years of development you need to start cleaning house. If you're going to shed tears for someone shed them for skilled programmers who might have relished the opportunity to work on a project like this but couldn't because those positions were filled by the folks who gave us this after 8 years.
Posted December 22, 2020
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sanscript: Based on history and other such "lawsuits" against developers based on false advertisements (deception to make profit) they all have been shut down by judges.

It remains to see what a judge in Poland says because it's difficult to prove.
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clarry: It was CDPR who decided exactly whether to or how much to delay the release, and it was CDPR who lied to investors on call and said it's all fine and good and runs surprisingly well and they just need to do some final tweaking.. go read it, it's not a secret: https://www.cdprojekt.com/en/wp-content/uploads-en/2020/10/trancript_en.pdf
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sanscript: I agree it's lack of evidences, but those transcript usually only shows one part of the whole story. We don't know if there have been meetings behind closed doors.
Lack of evidence? How about these forums, other forums, YouTube videos, etc. There's the evidence.
Posted December 22, 2020
[deleted]
Post edited February 12, 2023 by lace_gardenia
Posted December 22, 2020
high rated
I feel bad for everyone involved.
The Users who have many problems, the developers who clearly put massive effort in to make this thing, even if it still has many bugs at this point.

I don't have any empathy for those "law firms" though, or whoever is driving the lawsuit.
Those people just smell money and fame, mostly money.
They don't create anything.

Let CDPR do what they can to fix this, i'm sure they will - even if it takes some time.
Posted December 22, 2020
[deleted]
Post edited February 12, 2023 by lace_gardenia
Posted December 22, 2020
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REG2012: Lack of evidence? How about these forums, other forums, YouTube videos, etc. There's the evidence.
Tell that to the other's who have failed, or have had a judge denied them a case, not me ;)
Posted December 22, 2020
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sanscript: Based on history and other such "lawsuits" against developers based on false advertisements (deception to make profit) they all have been shut down by judges.

It remains to see what a judge in Poland says because it's difficult to prove.
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clarry: It was CDPR who decided exactly whether to or how much to delay the release, and it was CDPR who lied to investors on call and said it's all fine and good and runs surprisingly well and they just need to do some final tweaking.. go read it, it's not a secret: https://www.cdprojekt.com/en/wp-content/uploads-en/2020/10/trancript_en.pdf
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sanscript: I agree it's lack of evidences, but those transcript usually only shows one part of the whole story. We don't know if there have been meetings behind closed doors.
Will they be sued in Poland? I think it is a no brainer that CDPR cannot get sued for something of this nature in Poland - US is a different ball game. Can they be sued in the US - not sure about the stock market rules here.

I'm surprised that there are no calls for CEO founder to step down - normally this is what happens in a founder managed listed startup...
Post edited December 22, 2020 by midrand
Posted December 22, 2020
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midrand: Will they be sued in Poland? I think it is a no brainer that CDPR cannot get sued for something of this nature in Poland - US is a different ball game. Can they be sued in the US - not sure about the stock market rules here.

I'm surprised that there are no calls for CEO founder to step down - normally this is what happens in a founder managed listed startup...
Hard to tell, but the reality is the other way around.

Europe have better consumer/worker rights in general compared to America, so we'll see. In fact, in US judges have dismissed many such cases regarding false advertisements, like NMS and others, and we know judges in EU have different views.

In France there was recently a case where a company lost due to something similar, and that would probably not happen is the US: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20190920/09224543030/french-court-declares-that-steam-gamers-actually-do-own-what-they-bought.shtml

No, don't think they can be sued directly in US unless they have some sort of HQ or something there, like Sony and EA have.

And the step down thing would only happen if the CEO of that company in EU had done a really grave thing, like sexual abuse, killing someone, or stealing money from the company while falsifying the books (which also are criminal offenses).
Post edited December 22, 2020 by sanscript
Posted December 23, 2020
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InfiniteClouds: Wah, poor devs, wah horrible management story ad nauseum.
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lace_gardenia: your empathy is truly touching
I am empathetic -- to skilled programmers out there who would've loved to work on a project like this but couldn't because those positions were already filled.
Posted December 23, 2020
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midrand: Will they be sued in Poland? I think it is a no brainer that CDPR cannot get sued for something of this nature in Poland - US is a different ball game. Can they be sued in the US - not sure about the stock market rules here.

I'm surprised that there are no calls for CEO founder to step down - normally this is what happens in a founder managed listed startup...
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sanscript: Hard to tell, but the reality is the other way around.

Europe have better consumer/worker rights in general compared to America, so we'll see. In fact, in US judges have dismissed many such cases regarding false advertisements, like NMS and others, and we know judges in EU have different views.

In France there was recently a case where a company lost due to something similar, and that would probably not happen is the US: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20190920/09224543030/french-court-declares-that-steam-gamers-actually-do-own-what-they-bought.shtml

No, don't think they can be sued directly in US unless they have some sort of HQ or something there, like Sony and EA have.

And the step down thing would only happen if the CEO of that company in EU had done a really grave thing, like sexual abuse, killing someone, or stealing money from the company while falsifying the books (which also are criminal offenses).
ok - that's a bit different with the Valve case you mentioned as that spoke to the right to resell what you bought. Here we are supposedly talking about damages - for gamers their recourse is a refund. If CDPR grants refunds to all that wish to do so, that's the end of recourse for the customer. Investors are different of course, and here I don't know EU legislation well - just gut feel tells me that US legal system is more prepared to entertain far fetched lawsuits.

Founder CEOs were forced to step down for bad business decisions previously - and this mess does look to be self-inflicted by CDPR's execs.
Posted December 23, 2020
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midrand: ok - that's a bit different with the Valve case you mentioned as that spoke to the right to resell what you bought.
I see them as related because it shows how consumers are more protected in relation to EU vs US.

So yes, there might be a better chance here to sue CDPR for false advertisements, and not really let people refund (but it's more complicated because Sony denies refund and wants to keep all the money for themselves, and all the responsibility might fall on CDPR)..

And as I said, in US many of these types of cases have been dismissed, mainly to protect the company, rather the customers/consumers, and also the fact that it is difficult to prove in a court (again, depending of the judge).
Post edited December 23, 2020 by sanscript
Posted December 23, 2020
[deleted]
Post edited February 12, 2023 by lace_gardenia
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Cyberpunk 2077It could all be over for CDPR(37 posts)(37 posts)
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