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Cyberpunk 2077Cyberpunk 2077 - No Windows 7?(255 posts)(255 posts)
(255 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 15, 2019
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A_B_raxis: because this is an admissible argument i will answer you.

"state of the art" means newest technologies not perfect, bugfree or even cheap. If you take a look at the steam hardware statistic you will see that the most common graphic card, the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060, is able to use Raytracing even if it misses the hardware unit. The driver that enables raytracing for same of the (stronger) GTX graphic cards is actually win 10 exclusive. raytracing is a feature cyberpunk will use.

i could also argue that the directx 12 support microsoft published a couple of month ago for win 7, was a very surprising decision(because Microsoft is definitly aggressively trying to promote Win 10). At the point of development where CDPR had to decide which OS will be supported, it seemed unlikely that win 7 would get DX12 support. Because CDPR is no able to travel back in tim(as far as i know), its more relevant what was know at the moment they had to make the decision.
Raytracing is supported in Win7 using Vulkan: https://devblogs.nvidia.com/vulkan-raytracing/. The latest Geforce driver for Win7 is 430.36, the driver release mentioned in that post is 411.63.
Posted June 15, 2019
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DoomFruit: Raytracing is supported in Win7 using Vulkan: https://devblogs.nvidia.com/vulkan-raytracing/. The latest Geforce driver for Win7 is 430.36, the driver release mentioned in that post is 411.63.
Nice to know that nvidia enables vulkan to use raytracing, but irrelevant because: raytracing is available for vulkan since october 2018. a huge part of the graphic development was already done(using DX12) at this time. And additionally they use DX12 not vulkan so it doesn't matter if vulkan would enable raytracing with win 7(the article does not say that explicitly, but its very likely because vulkan is a multiplatform tool) if they use DX12. Also as far as a unterstand it only enables raytracing for Turing GPU (which are rare and very expansiv) with vulkan. No DX12 no GTX.

https://www.gsmarena.com/microsoft_adds_directx_12_support_on_windows_7-news-36045.php

a "short" quote from that link:
"However, Microsoft has clarified that while this will enable developers to support DX12 on Windows 7, the best DX12 performance will still be found on Windows 10 as that OS was designed from the ground-up for this API. You also won't get any of the other features such as DXR (DirectX Raytracing) on Windows 7."

no raytracing with DX12 on Win7.
Post edited June 15, 2019 by A_B_raxis
Posted June 15, 2019
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A_B_raxis: no raytracing with DX12 on Win7.
I'm devastated. Really.
Who needs story, characters, roleplay systems, lore, visual design if we cannnot use "latest" semi-working shit which is so high on paid hype-train right now?

Like one man said recently: "People buy everything anyway".
Posted June 15, 2019
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A_B_raxis: Nice to know that nvidia enables vulkan to use raytracing, but irrelevant because: raytracing is available for vulkan since october 2018. a huge part of the graphic development was already done(using DX12) at this time. And additionally they use DX12 not vulkan so it doesn't matter if vulkan would enable raytracing with win 7(the article does not say that explicitly, but its very likely because vulkan is a multiplatform tool) if they use DX12. Also as far as a unterstand it only enables raytracing for Turing GPU (which are rare and very expansiv) with vulkan. No DX12 no GTX.

https://www.gsmarena.com/microsoft_adds_directx_12_support_on_windows_7-news-36045.php

a "short" quote from that link:
"However, Microsoft has clarified that while this will enable developers to support DX12 on Windows 7, the best DX12 performance will still be found on Windows 10 as that OS was designed from the ground-up for this API. You also won't get any of the other features such as DXR (DirectX Raytracing) on Windows 7."

no raytracing with DX12 on Win7.
It's extremely unlikely that you'd actually want to use raytracing on cards that don't have dedicated hardware for it. From what I've read (can't recall exactly where I first saw it, a quick web search turned up https://www.pcgamesn.com/nvidia/gtx-1060-6gb-1660-directx-raytracing-performance-benchmarks), the performance hit is massive.

Because of this, it doesn't matter that the Vulkan feature is limited to cards that have dedicated silicon.
Posted June 15, 2019
@ Yunipuma: as already stated: as long as you have no questions or arguments, no comment. you ask a question i gave you an answer.

@DoomFruit:
The raytracing performance of a GTX will defintily be lower than the performance of a Turing GPU. The GTX doesn't have a RT Core and no Tensor AI Core. If someone is going to use DXR with a GTX is a very personal decision. I didn't tried it, i don't know how much better it looks using DXR and how strong the influance on the framerate will be. In the end they will have the chance to try it and decide if the need it or not. Win 7 users don't have this decision. And having the possibility to decide is something i think does matter.

As i said nice to know vulkan enables to use raytracing on other OS than Win10, but Cyberpunk will use DX12 not Vulkan. As Vulkan became raytracing support, they already had done alot of work with DX12. Do you expect them to say "Lets throw way the work of years and start from the beginning using vulkan"? If they had done this, than most likely none of us would ever be able to enjoy Cyberpunk no matter which OS you use.

I did take a look at the article you linked and the performance of the GTX 1060 with Battlefield V DXR high is not that bad. We will have to wait until release to know if the DXR feature of Cyberpunk are usable with a GTX GPU.
Posted June 15, 2019
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A_B_raxis: @ Yunipuma: as already stated: as long as you have no questions or arguments, no comment. you ask a question i gave you an answer.

@DoomFruit:
The raytracing performance of a GTX will defintily be lower than the performance of a Turing GPU. The GTX doesn't have a RT Core and no Tensor AI Core. If someone is going to use DXR with a GTX is a very personal decision. I didn't tried it, i don't know how much better it looks using DXR and how strong the influance on the framerate will be. In the end they will have the chance to try it and decide if the need it or not. Win 7 users don't have this decision. And having the possibility to decide is something i think does matter.

As i said nice to know vulkan enables to use raytracing on other OS than Win10, but Cyberpunk will use DX12 not Vulkan. As Vulkan became raytracing support, they already had done alot of work with DX12. Do you expect them to say "Lets throw way the work of years and start from the beginning using vulkan"? If they had done this, than most likely none of us would ever be able to enjoy Cyberpunk no matter which OS you use.

I did take a look at the article you linked and the performance of the GTX 1060 with Battlefield V DXR high is not that bad. We will have to wait until release to know if the DXR feature of Cyberpunk are usable with a GTX GPU.
We have no idea whether it's even going to have raytracing support. I'd say no - the vast majority of the install base will not have hardware acceleration for it.
Posted June 15, 2019
It is going to have raytracing support.
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/cyberpunk-2077-nvidia-partnership-ray-tracing/

And yes no hardware acceleration for most people in the world because only Turing GPU do that and they are rare. But there are common graphic cards like the GTX 1060 for example(most common one on Steam) that will allow you to use DXR without hardware acceleration.
Post edited June 15, 2019 by A_B_raxis
Posted June 15, 2019
Please add Windows 8.1 support with DX11 or Vulkan at least in a separate executable file (and Linux support that would be great). I finally figured out how to live in piece with this operating system its no longer against me but Windows 10 is painful to use. I'll use win10 to play when I have to but yea Win8.1 pretty please. I might get another copy for my xbox when not hm.
Posted June 16, 2019
There is a new wishlist for Cyberpunk 2077 to be for windows 7. GO Tag it ! ! ! !
Posted June 16, 2019
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A_B_raxis: It is going to have raytracing support.
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/cyberpunk-2077-nvidia-partnership-ray-tracing/

And yes no hardware acceleration for most people in the world because only Turing GPU do that and they are rare. But there are common graphic cards like the GTX 1060 for example(most common one on Steam) that will allow you to use DXR without hardware acceleration.
Well, looks like I guessed wrong. Unfortunately and because of this, the logical assumption is now that they've gone full DirectX 12 from the very start.

Right now, the game is useless to me. Perhaps once it's been released, people will try it with Wine and dxvk. If that works and I can run it on Linux without issue, I'll pick it up when it eventually goes on sale. Vote with my wallet, I guess.
Posted June 16, 2019
Who cares about ray tracing anyway? Yet another gimmick to blow people's piggy banks. It is too early for its full power and a bad investment right now. "Fake" lighting is good enough for the time being.

I already gave you an example with Battlefield V - modern AAA game that supports Dx12,Dx11, Win7, Win 10, Ray tracing - dependent on configuration, I guess. So, it is possible. The only reason not to do that is if they have some arrangement with Microsoft or for cost saving reasons. It is a game after all - it doesn't use any state of the art OS functions that forbid running it on Win 7.
Post edited June 16, 2019 by ivanx
Posted June 16, 2019
Hey if you are not interested in DXR, that okay. Others maybe interested and they may like the Global Illumination Feature(instead of your "Fake" lighting). Everyone has to decide for themself.


You may not like it but DXR is still state of the art technologie and i doesn't run on Win 7 OS because the DX12 version microsoft gave win7 only support the "basic" features of DX12(not even Battlefield V allows you to use DXR on win 7).

You understand that there is a differance between singleplayer games like Cyberpunk and multiplayer games like Battlefield(very differant customer base)? You understand that there is a differance between the ressources EA and CDPR have available? EA had to spend an additional amoung of work to make Battlefield able to use DX12 with win 7. At the release of Battlefield V the EoL of Win 7 was more than a year into the future and not nearly a halb year in the past. This was enough time for EA to make at least 50% of the total sales that Battlefield V is going to have. Because of this reason Battlefield V was from the beginning developed for win 7.(Cyberpunk wasn't)

You said the only reason is potential support from Microsoft and cost saving. Im rather sure if you give CDPR a few million dollar, they are more than happy to develop a Win 7 version of Cyberpunk for you, if not they have to decide where to invest there limited ressources.
Posted June 16, 2019
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A_B_raxis: Hey if you are not interested in DXR, that okay. Others maybe interested and they may like the Global Illumination Feature(instead of your "Fake" lighting). Everyone has to decide for themself.

You may not like it but DXR is still state of the art technologie and i doesn't run on Win 7 OS because the DX12 version microsoft gave win7 only support the "basic" features of DX12(not even Battlefield V allows you to use DXR on win 7).

You understand that there is a differance between singleplayer games like Cyberpunk and multiplayer games like Battlefield(very differant customer base)? You understand that there is a differance between the ressources EA and CDPR have available? EA had to spend an additional amoung of work to make Battlefield able to use DX12 with win 7. At the release of Battlefield V the EoL of Win 7 was more than a year into the future and not nearly a halb year in the past. This was enough time for EA to make at least 50% of the total sales that Battlefield V is going to have. Because of this reason Battlefield V was from the beginning developed for win 7.(Cyberpunk wasn't)

You said the only reason is potential support from Microsoft and cost saving. Im rather sure if you give CDPR a few million dollar, they are more than happy to develop a Win 7 version of Cyberpunk for you, if not they have to decide where to invest there limited ressources.
Oh, I see you love your Window10 Remote Control Service & you are loyal to your Micro$oft Masters.
This is highly commendable.
Posted June 18, 2019
I was going to preorder this, then I saw it's winblows 10 only. :-E
Windows 10 is a spyware filled piece of crap!

Why can't they make it work in win7?
It supports dx12 from what I understand.
Posted June 18, 2019
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ast486: Why can't they make it work in win7?
It supports dx12 from what I understand.
it's not as easy as changing a variable from false to true(even if Win 7 supports DX12). It's rather unlikly that they will add Win 7 as supported OS 10 month before release(they still have a lot of work to be done and 10 month is a short span of time). On the other hand its not totally unrealistic that there will be a way to make Cyberpunk run on win 7. You have (more or less) two options: 1. Change to win10. As long as you met the rest of the still unknown system requirement, you will be able to play the game. 2. Wait until release(or 1-2 week after release) and see if anyone has found a to make Cyberpunk run on Win 7.

Because you don't want Win10, i guess option 2 is your best choice. I would not recommend to preorder the game if you use win 7, because you can't be sure if the game you paid for will run on your system.
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Cyberpunk 2077Cyberpunk 2077 - No Windows 7?(255 posts)(255 posts)
(255 posts)