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Crypt of the NecroDancerWhere's the Linux version?(89 posts)(89 posts)
(89 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted August 14, 2015
Thank you for supporting Linux.
I know the Linux community can sometimes be a bit… vocal, but most of us are really thankful to you.
This is sad we get certain things late, but this is understandable, I hope steam machines will change this, so I'll wait for galaxy to get out and then I'll buy your game.

Cordially
Posted August 14, 2015
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NecroHeather: Hi kreidos!

I'm sorry to hear that this is a frustration for you. We definitely want NecroDancer to be available to as many players as possible. You're right that Galaxy is optional, that said without Galaxy we'd be providing an inferior version of the game without leaderboards or achievements.
Leaderboards and achievments are NOT superior. Besides I don't see how a drm client is necessary for leaderboards.

Face it: you're losing sales and will keep on doing so because of your poor decisions (as in not searching for a better one). But I guess you don't care as your game has already been released on Steam.
Post edited August 14, 2015 by Zoidberg
Posted August 14, 2015
high rated
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BraceYourselfGames: Hi all! I'm Ryan Clark, the creator of Crypt of the NecroDancer.

I'm a big supporter of Linux games, and every independent game I've created (8 so far) has had a Linux version. Hopefully you can see that I'm on your side :) However, I'll let you know that I make Linux games only because I want to support Linux gamers. Less than 1% of the revenue from my games comes from Linux, and yet more than 10% of the technical support issues come from Linux. For small games and small companies like ours, that 1% of revenue just isn't enough to justify the effort of creating a Linux and supporting a Linux build.

Instead, we do this because we want to support Linux gamers. As a result, it is always a bit disheartening to have Linux gamers get upset at us, despite our best efforts. (In the "Release: Crypt of the NecroDancer" thread, one user even suggested that we have our heads up our asses.)

We've been working on the GoG version of the game ever since we launched on Steam. It has literally taken us that long to work out all of the kinks. (We expected it to only take a few days!) It has been a slog. So once we finally got it working on Win+Mac and realized that there is no Linux version of Galaxy, we were faced with a choice: Spend even MORE time to rework the Linux version to remove Galaxy, the leaderboards, the achievements, and deliver a crippled version of the game, or we could wait until Galaxy comes to Linux and use the same code base as Win+Mac, and deliver the best possible version of the game.

I can certainly understand your frustration that our game is not yet available on Linux! But please do try to see things from our side, too. We are a small company. We want to support Linux gamers, despite the fact that it makes little financial sense for us to do so. We intend to post a Linux build if/when Galaxy becomes available on Linux. We hope that you can forgive that delay.

Thank you!
Well, I'm a programmer as well, so how hard can this be:
1. Search for "require AchievementCruftLib", require "SocialBullShit"
2. remove said lines,
3. Search for Do.Achievement({parameters})
4. Write two lines of code: NOP; Return(0)
user@devbox:~$ make compile
Voila, you'll have a ballast free, DRM-free version of your game.

Now that's a lot of effort, right?
If it won't work along those lines, you have your development back to front, making things monolithic where they should be modular.

Pardon my "French( sorry French people, it's just an English expression)" here, but the deregatory naming of those libraries is exactly how many Linux customers will view your product.
I'm certainly not alone here and I have bought a lot of games, embracing the independent voices at GOG, rather Than the FaceBlock And Twitcher crowd.
Post edited August 14, 2015 by jorlin
Posted August 14, 2015
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torham: What I find frustrating about all of this is that Galaxy, the completely optional client, is now preventing games from coming to Linux. I don't blame the developers because they aren't advertising it as being for Linux here, but I think it is especially annoying because many of us don't give a crap about any of the features Galaxy provides. I'd much prefer the developers work on releasing the game in a DRM-Free format than work on worthless leaderboards or achievements. By the time we can play it, no one else will be playing it let alone looking at the leaderboards anyway.
+ many. So much for the supposedly "optional" nature of it...
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NecroHeather: Hi kreidos!

I'm sorry to hear that this is a frustration for you. We definitely want NecroDancer to be available to as many players as possible. You're right that Galaxy is optional, that said without Galaxy we'd be providing an inferior version of the game without leaderboards or achievements.
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Ganni1987: Thank you for your response and welcome to GOG, while I understand your company thought this would be a fair and good idea, believe me it's going to make a lot of people angry (it probably already has) and me included.

I would rather have the so called "inferior version" than nothing at all. Personally I don't care one bit about achievements or leaderboards, just wanted to enjoy the damn game.
I don't care about it either, it's just some noise that doesn't even register on my radar. I find it surprising that developers consider it so critical as not to release the game at all without it, thinking it would be too inferior. Please, know your audience better!

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BraceYourselfGames: I can certainly understand your frustration that our game is not yet available on Linux! But please do try to see things from our side, too. We are a small company. We want to support Linux gamers, despite the fact that it makes little financial sense for us to do so. We intend to post a Linux build if/when Galaxy becomes available on Linux. We hope that you can forgive that delay.

Thank you!
Thanks for joining the discussion. Since it was mentioned so many times that Galaxy is optional, why can't you treat it as such? You can rather easily write code which has optional features. I.e. if Galaxy is available - it would use it, and if not, it won't. Is that so much of an overhead for you?
Post edited August 14, 2015 by shmerl
Posted August 14, 2015
high rated
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BraceYourselfGames: I can certainly understand your frustration that our game is not yet available on Linux! But please do try to see things from our side, too. We are a small company. We want to support Linux gamers, despite the fact that it makes little financial sense for us to do so. We intend to post a Linux build if/when Galaxy becomes available on Linux. We hope that you can forgive that delay.

Thank you!
And just to be clear, if you really can't customize your code much, you can write a simple library stub which will provide Galaxy API that you use, but does nothing inside. This way your code would link with it, and will get nothing. Just react on that properly. It doesn't take a long time to implement!
Post edited August 14, 2015 by shmerl
Posted August 14, 2015
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BraceYourselfGames: I can certainly understand your frustration that our game is not yet available on Linux! But please do try to see things from our side, too. We are a small company. We want to support Linux gamers, despite the fact that it makes little financial sense for us to do so. We intend to post a Linux build if/when Galaxy becomes available on Linux. We hope that you can forgive that delay.

Thank you!
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shmerl: And just to be clear, if you really can't customize your code much, you can write a simple library stub which will provide Galaxy API that you use, but does nothing inside. This way your code would link with it, and will get nothing. Just react on that properly. It doesn't take a long time to implement!
Thank you for the summary.
Posted August 14, 2015
This looks like another episode of the Age of Wonders 3 Dev "we lack the resources".

One VERY IMPORTANT fact remains still, there's a Steam Linux version without any of the Galaxy API, they can use that and edit the achievements and leaderboards to a "null" trigger. Not the first dev that does this.

One more thing, if the Dev really wants to have achievements why not put them in the game in the first place? Similar to what Terraria, Trine and many other Linux games on GOG have them.
Posted August 15, 2015
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NecroHeather: Hi folks! I get that you are angry about this, but unfortunately we don't have a Linux version available for you. If that loses us sales, that really sucks, but we are a 3 person company and we've done what we can.
It's not about losing sales, it's about treating users properly and not as second class citizens. Small studios not larger than you release on all platforms and all distributors at the same time. It's a question of professional attitude, not a question of inability. If you respect your users, you get that respect back as well!
Post edited August 15, 2015 by shmerl
Posted August 15, 2015
low rated
Wow guys… really? You are blaming the devs when they release games on Linux when there is almost no profit from it?
What are you trying to archive I don' t get it. Try to show "you are better"? If you know better, then do it yourself!

Oh… but you can't, because it's their games. Just let them manage, if you are unhappy with it, don't buy the game,
but I think harassing devs with your moral and your programming skills is NOT the solution.

So annoying… and the worst part is that you guys are so vocal that most of devs then think the whole linux community are after them.

The best thing you can do here is to annoy them so much that they'll just drop the game for Linux. I mean, is that what you want? You guys say "we are seen as second class users". Well… there is something called… reality. Yea, reality.
Facts. More than 95% of users are using windows. I hope it was not the case, as I see microsoft's monopole as a brake on innovation, but this IS the case.
This guy was explaining he had troubles concerning Linux incomes, I think it is very courageous from him to still do it, probably by passion or morality. But here it is… Linux's incomes are no match to windows', and even for a corporation with moral values, they still need to make money and to set priorities on what's important.
If you disagree with them, well, just don't buy the game. But for pity, leave them alone, they owe you nothing, they didn't force you to buy their games.
Plus he is explaining himself, even if you don't like or understand his reasons.

I don't know what to say anymore for you to realise what you are doing can bring nothing good.
Posted August 15, 2015
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jogeek: If you know better, then do it yourself!
No problem. I can do it for open projects where I can submit patches and bug fixes. How do you propose to do it in this case exactly? GOG didn't open source their Galaxy, and the game isn't open either.
Post edited August 15, 2015 by shmerl
Posted August 15, 2015
low rated
Yea you right, those guys are using proprietary softwares. Such jerks! Without them the world would be such a nicer place, they don't deserve to live!

… right?
Posted August 15, 2015
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jogeek: Yea you right, those guys are using proprietary softwarest?
It was your idea about "fix it yourself". No one else proposed it here, because it's not feasible in this case, even if it's easy when code is available.
Post edited August 15, 2015 by shmerl
Posted August 15, 2015
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BraceYourselfGames: (In the "Release: Crypt of the NecroDancer" thread, one user even suggested that we have our heads up our asses.)
0__o
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BraceYourselfGames: We've been working on the GoG version of the game ever since we launched on Steam. It has literally taken us that long to work out all of the kinks. (We expected it to only take a few days!) It has been a slog. So once we finally got it working on Win+Mac and realized that there is no Linux version of Galaxy, we were faced with a choice: Spend even MORE time to rework the Linux version to remove Galaxy, the leaderboards, the achievements, and deliver a crippled version of the game, or we could wait until Galaxy comes to Linux and use the same code base as Win+Mac, and deliver the best possible version of the game.
First, thanks for coming by and explaining the situation further. Second, you have a third choice: deliver a "crippled" version of the game initially and a Galaxy enabled Linux one once it's available. Obviously this doesn't make much sense if Linux Galaxy will be available next week. If it's 6 months to a year down the line? Seems to be a more worthwhile option. You already have a Linux port of the game done. I have a difficult time understanding that the hard part isn't already finished.
It seems the GOG Win+Mac versions took longer to finish than you anticipated, and you ran out of time to work on any GOG Linux version. With all the information we have from GOG, which is none, you are asking us to wait "X" number of months or even a year until you release a Linux version here. Surely, you can also see the frustration on our side. I realize you're likely quite busy now and you won't be able to push out a DRM-Free Linux build in the next few days. Once the release frenzy dies down perhaps you can take a second look at how truly difficult such a feat would be.

Thanks again for taking the time to stop by.

edit: decided that 2p last sentence was confusing
Post edited August 15, 2015 by Gydion
Posted August 15, 2015
Ok I think I'm done. I'll stop arguing with you. This is pointless.

Notice I said "Oh… but you can't, because it's their games" directly after "If you know better, then do it yourself!", you are the one getting lost and trying to match a model that doesn't work well (yet?) in video games.

You can still buy the game on steam, it's not like the game isn't working or something. You apparently DEMAND they release it on Gog for Linux, but they are not obliged to do so, as they are not obliged to release on Linux at all either.

Peace.
Posted August 15, 2015
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jogeek: Ok I think I'm done. I'll stop arguing with you. This is pointless.

Notice I said "Oh… but you can't, because it's their games" directly after "If you know better, then do it yourself!", you are the one getting lost and trying to match a model that doesn't work well (yet?) in video games.
Open engines work quite well, and I filed a few bugs and fixes for AGS for example. There are commercial games sold here which use it.
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Crypt of the NecroDancerWhere's the Linux version?(89 posts)(89 posts)
(89 posts)