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PraetorianWolfie: I haven't had this bug in the recent 2.6.0 or 2.7.0 of ScummVM.
This was an issue with a few older versions (and afaik also the 2.5.1 version), so maybe you launched the game with one of those?

The "..." missing from some lines is basically a subtitler's choice and it usually is inconsistent. I've read some guidelines that suggest skipping it altogether except for very specific cases. For sentences continued in the next quote the guidelines said don't use ellipsis. Anyway, I'm not a big fan of this rule, so I'm leaving this up to each subtitler and I'm allowing inconsistencies on this specific issue.
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mdqp: I must have used the old version by mistake, as you say (I have both versions installed, although it seems like 2.6 is fine, so I should ditch 2.5.1 soon). The missing "..." I was referring to are tied to me using 2.5.1 by mistake, most likely (they appeared and disappeared in the same conversation, together with the other bug).
Yes, this makes sense. In the Italian version, English and German I replaced the three dots (...) with the ellipsis glyph (a single glyph of three dots), since our subtitles font does support this, and the newer versions of ScummVM (2.6.0 and above) have fixed the issue with the missing glyphs -- which included the ellipsis glyph and a few more special glyphs, the "non-flat" quotation marks too.
More issues for the italian subs:

Asking Grigorian about cars(perhaps it says "machines" in english? I am guessing here, but it seems like the topic isn't translated properly, although I can't say for sure):

voice: "Vediamo." subs: "Mettimi alla prova."

Talking to the "eye engineer":

voice: "Da dove vieni?" "Cosa?" subs: "Da dove vieni?" "Che cosa?"

Talking to Moraji:

voice: "DNA" subs: "DDNA"

Entering Early Q for the first time: voice: "Era solito definirsi" subs: "si definiva"
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mdqp: More issues for the italian subs:

Asking Grigorian about cars(perhaps it says "machines" in english? I am guessing here, but it seems like the topic isn't translated properly, although I can't say for sure):
In English the topic is "CARS (Citizens Against Replicant Slavery)", which is Grigorian's organization of Replicant sympathizers. There's more to it of course. Not sure if in Italian something got mistranslated (meaning in the original localization) -- but I did read in at least another quote (Steele's interview of Grigorian) that they use a proper Italian name for the organization (CCSR = Cittadini Contro la Schiavitù dei Replicanti).
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mdqp: More issues for the italian subs:

Asking Grigorian about cars(perhaps it says "machines" in english? I am guessing here, but it seems like the topic isn't translated properly, although I can't say for sure):
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PraetorianWolfie: In English the topic is "CARS (Citizens Against Replicant Slavery)", which is Grigorian's organization of Replicant sympathizers. There's more to it of course. Not sure if in Italian something got mistranslated (meaning in the original localization) -- but I did read in at least another quote (Steele's interview of Grigorian) that they use a proper Italian name for the organization (CCSR = Cittadini Contro la Schiavitù dei Replicanti).
Yes, that one is definitely wrong, because they translate CARS into "automobili", ignoring that it's an acronym, and literally translating it as cars. It should indeed be CCSR.

Also, a correction:

Entering Early Q for the first time: voice: "Era solito definirsi" subs: "usava si definiva" ("usava" must be removed as well).
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mdqp: Yes, that one is definitely wrong, because they translate CARS into "automobili", ignoring that it's an acronym, and literally translating it as cars. It should indeed be CCSR.
I fixed this now. This fix si in the source code so it probably won't make it to 2.6.0, but it will be in the next one (2.7.0 or 2.6.x if I remember to backport it there).
Last report for this run (I don't know if I'll make another one soon):

Talking to the dancer in the Early Q, inside the "secret" room: voice: "Come ti chiami?" subs: "Qual'è il tuo nome?"

Having a few drinks in the Early Q, the bartender will eventually say: "Due alle dieci, dieci alle due." subs: "Se dieci alle due."

First conversation with Sebastian (at the end): voice "Va bene." subs "Ricevuto."

Asking Sebastian about the twins: voice: "Quasi quanto lo è" subs: "Quasi come lo è"

Old couple outside the Hysteria Hall:

voice: "un mucchio di cose" subs: "un sacco di cose"

First conversation with crazylegs: voice: "Ricevuto." subs: "Ho capito."

second meeting with crazylegs: voice: "anche me la notte" subs: "anche a me la notte"

Talking to Lucy at the arcade: voice: "di... Altri." subs: "degli... Altri."

Guy in red dress, nightclub row:

1) voice: "Ehi, bello." subs: "Ehi, Amico."
2) voice: "Giusto." subs: "Esattamente."
3)(During show) voice: "Bene, bene." subs: "Esattamente."

Cop at the nightclub row arresting you (at the end):

1) voice: "Va bene. Ray McCoy..." subs: "Esattamente. Ray McCoy..."
2) voice: "Andiamo." subs: "Andiamocene."

Talking to the twins about replicants:

1) voice: "E con ciò?" subs: "E allora?"
2) voice: "...possono essere alterate" subs: "...possono essere ritoccate"

After exhausting all dialogue options with the twins: voice:"Resta da queste parti." subs: "Resti in zona."

Talking with Gaff after exiting the sewers: voice: "Ci sto pensando." "Ci pensi bene." subs: "Ci sto pensando." "Sembra difficile."

Talk with Lucy at the phone: voice: "Che sta succedendo?" subs: "Che succede?"

Talk with Lucy (ending)

1) voice: "Si lo è." subs: "Lo so."
2) voice: "Ti mancherà?" subs: "Ne sentirai la mancanza?"
3) voice: "Che c'è?" subs: "Che cosa?"
4) subs: "Ci rivedremo Molto presto" (Molto shouldn't be capitalized)
5) voice: "Possiamo morire assieme, sull'onda del nostro amore infinito." subs: "Possiamo morire assieme La sola cosa che sentiremo sarà l'amore che abbiamo l'una per l'altro."
6) voice: "Ora!" subs: "Adesso!"
7) voice: "Sono io." subs: "Si, lo sono." (s"ono io" is sadly a mistranslation, and the subs have the one which makes sense)

I must say, the subtitles are mostly good. Some of the mistakes make me think they had a copy of the script or something, because the different versions are often logical, but worded very differently (so you can't do such mistakes by transcribing the audio).

Now, I don't know how much more dialogue I missed, due to the randomness and some of my choices. I saw a couple of endings, but I have to ask, is Roy's status as a replicant or human always ambiguous, no matter what? The photo's reflection suggests it's all a hoax, but... Oh well.
Post edited July 14, 2022 by mdqp
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mdqp: Last report for this run (I don't know if I'll make another one soon):

Talking to the dancer in the Early Q, inside the "secret" room: voice: "Come ti chiami?" subs: "Qual'è il tuo nome?"

Having a few drinks in the Early Q, the bartender will eventually say: "Due alle dieci, dieci alle due." subs: "Se dieci alle due."

First conversation with Sebastian (at the end): voice "Va bene." subs "Ricevuto."

Asking Sebastian about the twins: voice: "Quasi quanto lo è" subs: "Quasi come lo è"

Old couple outside the Hysteria Hall:

voice: "un mucchio di cose" subs: "un sacco di cose"

First conversation with crazylegs: voice: "Ricevuto." subs: "Ho capito."

second meeting with crazylegs: voice: "anche me la notte" subs: "anche a me la notte"

Talking to Lucy at the arcade: voice: "di... Altri." subs: "degli... Altri."

Guy in red dress, nightclub row:

1) voice: "Ehi, bello." subs: "Ehi, Amico."
2) voice: "Giusto." subs: "Esattamente."
3)(During show) voice: "Bene, bene." subs: "Esattamente."

Cop at the nightclub row arresting you (at the end):

1) voice: "Va bene. Ray McCoy..." subs: "Esattamente. Ray McCoy..."
2) voice: "Andiamo." subs: "Andiamocene."

Talking to the twins about replicants:

1) voice: "E con ciò?" subs: "E allora?"
2) voice: "...possono essere alterate" subs: "...possono essere ritoccate"

After exhausting all dialogue options with the twins: voice:"Resta da queste parti." subs: "Resti in zona."

Talking with Gaff after exiting the sewers: voice: "Ci sto pensando." "Ci pensi bene." subs: "Ci sto pensando." "Sembra difficile."

Talk with Lucy at the phone: voice: "Che sta succedendo?" subs: "Che succede?"

Talk with Lucy (ending)

1) voice: "Si lo è." subs: "Lo so."
2) voice: "Ti mancherà?" subs: "Ne sentirai la mancanza?"
3) voice: "Che c'è?" subs: "Che cosa?"
4) subs: "Ci rivedremo Molto presto" (Molto shouldn't be capitalized)
5) voice: "Possiamo morire assieme, sull'onda del nostro amore infinito." subs: "Possiamo morire assieme La sola cosa che sentiremo sarà l'amore che abbiamo l'una per l'altro."
6) voice: "Ora!" subs: "Adesso!"
7) voice: "Sono io." subs: "Si, lo sono." (s"ono io" is sadly a mistranslation, and the subs have the one which makes sense)
I was able to fix most of these on the transcript. A couple of them are reported reversed (audio is subs) and I fixed those too.

One seems to be correct as is, ie.:
--- Talking to Lucy at the arcade: voice: "di... Altri." subs: "degli... Altri."
I can hear the "degli" in the voice, so I think it's ok to leave unchanged.

For the (7) (voice: "Sono io." subs: "Si, lo sono.") I think I'll leave the correct subtitle, even if the voice does not match. From a quick look I did not find another quote of Lucy where she'd actually say "Si, lo sono." to replace the mismatched one, so there's no good fix there.

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mdqp: I must say, the subtitles are mostly good. Some of the mistakes make me think they had a copy of the script or something, because the different versions are often logical, but worded very differently (so you can't do such mistakes by transcribing the audio).
Good to know. From these fixes and a few more that I could spot it seems to be that some manual work was done and then some automation algorithm was involved to complete the rest of the translation. Certain quotes that are identical in the English transcript, seem to be transcribed as identical for Italian, even though the localization may be using different quotes here. Or maybe they first followed automated process and then did some manual pass? Maybe some AI / machine learning was involved, I can't say for sure.

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mdqp: Now, I don't know how much more dialogue I missed, due to the randomness and some of my choices. I saw a couple of endings, but I have to ask, is Roy's status as a replicant or human always ambiguous, no matter what? The photo's reflection suggests it's all a hoax, but... Oh well.
I think there's maybe some intention for it to be ambiguous by design. Or at least have the player consider the possibility.
The playthroughs in this game, other than featuring randomized elements also depend on what the player notices, interacts with and gathers as clues. So, bases on that, different players may complete the game and get a different sense of how things happened, why, whether McCoy is a Replicant.

My view is that the base design was for McCoy to always be human but weigh towards cold blooded Blade Runner or towards Replicant sympathiser (with other variations and wild cards :D thrown into the mix). The reflection thing I think kind of supports this theory (as well as some cut content stuff). Then again, I am not a fan of the "Deckard was actually a Replicant the whole time" theory / Scott's retcon/interpretation so... I will always think that these stories work better with the protagonist being human. (I did like what they did in the sequel movie, btw, and I liked the basic premise of that one too, but had some other issues with the action sequences and some of the story telling/characters (...))

Anyway, thank you very much for the valuable feedback. We did quite a lot of improvements!
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PraetorianWolfie: I think there's maybe some intention for it to be ambiguous by design. Or at least have the player consider the possibility.
The playthroughs in this game, other than featuring randomized elements also depend on what the player notices, interacts with and gathers as clues. So, bases on that, different players may complete the game and get a different sense of how things happened, why, whether McCoy is a Replicant.

My view is that the base design was for McCoy to always be human but weigh towards cold blooded Blade Runner or towards Replicant sympathiser (with other variations and wild cards :D thrown into the mix). The reflection thing I think kind of supports this theory (as well as some cut content stuff). Then again, I am not a fan of the "Deckard was actually a Replicant the whole time" theory / Scott's retcon/interpretation so... I will always think that these stories work better with the protagonist being human. (I did like what they did in the sequel movie, btw, and I liked the basic premise of that one too, but had some other issues with the action sequences and some of the story telling/characters (...))

Anyway, thank you very much for the valuable feedback. We did quite a lot of improvements!
Ah, really sorry about mixing up the voice and subs at times, I'll blame it on staying up later than usual. XD

You are also right about "degli", I wonder how I got that wrong.

I do agree that it's meant to be left ambiguous, although I find that we never get a good conversation about it, only some wild accusations, so I was a bit annoyed at the end (you'd expect a picture where you don't appear in a reflection would be a pretty big topic to bring up when someone is hunting you).

I also agree that making Deckard a replicant kind of diminishes the impact of certain themes (like understanding one another, love that crosses boundaries, humanity and all that). I can relate to the fact that the original ending is perhaps too convenient with the "she was special" explanation, but having watched the Final Cut and then the theatrical release, I am surprised at how big the changes are, and I think both versions have artistic value, so I am a bit sad at how hard it can be to find a copy of the original version (I also don't think the narration is bad, but it does change the feeling of the movie quite wildly).

I didn't watch the recent Blade Runner (I heard that it was a tad too close to the first movie), but now I am curious.

Edit: Sneaky extra issues I found:

Visit to Tyrell corp (conversation with Rachael):

1) voice: "Il dottor Tyrell si è gia incontrato oggi con un altro Blade Runner." subs: "Il dottor Tyrell si è gia incontrato oggi con un altro Blade Runner e ha importanti affari di cui occuparsi."
2) voice: "Il suo dipartimento dovrebbe coordinare meglio i suoi sforzi." subs: "coordinare meglio i suoi sforzi."
3) voice: "Giusto." subs: "Va bene."
Post edited July 14, 2022 by mdqp
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mdqp: Edit: Sneaky extra issues I found:

Visit to Tyrell corp (conversation with Rachael):

1) voice: "Il dottor Tyrell si è gia incontrato oggi con un altro Blade Runner." subs: "Il dottor Tyrell si è gia incontrato oggi con un altro Blade Runner e ha importanti affari di cui occuparsi."
2) voice: "Il suo dipartimento dovrebbe coordinare meglio i suoi sforzi." subs: "coordinare meglio i suoi sforzi."
3) voice: "Giusto." subs: "Va bene."
The first two were already fixed :) and are part of the issue with the cut audio cues which are restored in Restored Content mode.
I've fixed the (3) one.
In a couple of good news:
- The fix for the bad dialogue option in Italian version, ie. AUTOMOBILI instead of C.C.S.R will make it to the 2.6.0 release. (Also an unrelated, but needed fix, for a regression about the upgraded KIA will be there too).
- I have started going through the Italian translation's in game quotes one by one. This process is expected to take me a few days (if I go through with it to the end), but at least I sort of know what to look for based on the feedback here :)

I guess I will try to do that for the German translation next, even though I'd prefer to have some feedback first from a native or fluent German speaker in order to get us started and understand if the issues are similar with the Italian transcript or the method was different for the German one.
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PraetorianWolfie: In a couple of good news:
- The fix for the bad dialogue option in Italian version, ie. AUTOMOBILI instead of C.C.S.R will make it to the 2.6.0 release. (Also an unrelated, but needed fix, for a regression about the upgraded KIA will be there too).
- I have started going through the Italian translation's in game quotes one by one. This process is expected to take me a few days (if I go through with it to the end), but at least I sort of know what to look for based on the feedback here :)

I guess I will try to do that for the German translation next, even though I'd prefer to have some feedback first from a native or fluent German speaker in order to get us started and understand if the issues are similar with the Italian transcript or the method was different for the German one.
Good news indeed!

There are a few more errors I found. As I said, though, I really can't imagine another playthrough soon, so I'd like to ask a few things:

first, is there anyone else going through the italian translation, except for me? I am sure I missed a few things here and there. Second, sometimes I noticed errors which get repeated, especially for short lines. I was wondering if those are simply re-used, and if fixing one would fix them all.

Anyway here are the errors:

Asking to Crazylegs about Lucy (end of the dialogue): voice: "Lo farò." subs: "Okay, va bene."

Talking to Early after you find his disc: voice: "Già. Sei un cittadino modello." subs: "Si. Sei un cittadino modello."

Asking to Gordo about the blonde woman: voice: "Cosa?" subs: "Che cosa?"

At the end of Gordo's act:

1) voice: "Bene-bene! È uno dei ragazzi..." subs: "Esattamente. È uno dei ragazzi..."
2) voice: "Si, i miei amici..." subs: "Ah, sì. I miei amici..."

After Gordo gets killed: voice: "Ma che cazzo significa?" subs: "Cosa diavolo significa?"
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mdqp: first, is there anyone else going through the italian translation, except for me? I am sure I missed a few things here and there.
Other than you, currently only I am going through the Italian translation as I wrote in my previous message. I'm taking a more thorough approach, checking each in-game quote one by one, by hearing the audio (outside the game) and reading the quote.

I won't do this for the cutscenes. The errors there are less prone to be missed due to randomness or whatever, so I expect that if more mistakes exist there, sooner or later someone will report them.

Since I am not fluent in Italian (at all) I'm probably doing this a lot slower than someone else more familiar with the language would. Still, out of the mentioned extra mistakes in your latest message above, I had already corrected all except for two (and I hadn't reached those two yet to check them). So that is good news.

To give a rough idea, I'm currently on quote 820 out of 5495 quotes, and still in McCoy's quotes. The way the quotes are listed are per actor, and the first actor is McCoy.

On an interesting note, Grigorian's first name is Cash for the Italian version, whereas in English it is Spencer.
I remember reading some press document mentioning Grigorian (or another actor) by a different name, which I don't think it was Cash. Still an interesting detail. I wonder if they did this because Spencer would be confusing in Italian for some reason, or they were following an older draft of the game's script.

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mdqp: Second, sometimes I noticed errors which get repeated, especially for short lines. I was wondering if those are simply re-used, and if fixing one would fix them all.
Yes for some of the quotes this is true, but not in all cases. So, for example, the same spoken quote may be used in multiple places, but also identical quotes may have different recordings, including the same actor using a different tone of voice and different actors speaking them. So those have to be fixed one by one. And on some cases, the same quote in English has more than one ways it is spoken in a localized version.
Post edited July 16, 2022 by PraetorianWolfie
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PraetorianWolfie: Other than you, currently only I am going through the Italian translation as I wrote in my previous message. I'm taking a more thorough approach, checking each in-game quote one by one, by hearing the audio (outside the game) and reading the quote.

I won't do this for the cutscenes. The errors there are less prone to be missed due to randomness or whatever, so I expect that if more mistakes exist there, sooner or later someone will report them.

Since I am not fluent in Italian (at all) I'm probably doing this a lot slower than someone else more familiar with the language would. Still, out of the mentioned extra mistakes in your latest message above, I had already corrected all except for two (and I hadn't reached those two yet to check them). So that is good news.

To give a rough idea, I'm currently on quote 820 out of 5495 quotes, and still in McCoy's quotes. The way the quotes are listed are per actor, and the first actor is McCoy.

On an interesting note, Grigorian's first name is Cash for the Italian version, whereas in English it is Spencer.
I remember reading some press document mentioning Grigorian (or another actor) by a different name, which I don't think it was Cash. Still an interesting detail. I wonder if they did this because Spencer would be confusing in Italian for some reason, or they were following an older draft of the game's script.
I was asking specifically because I thought you might not be fluent in Italian, and I was also hoping someone else was looking through the game as I did, since I am sure I have been sloppy in some areas. Anyway, if you ever have any doubts, feel free to ask me.

Sounds like you have a lot of work ahead of you!

That seems such a random change in names, especially since I honestly believe italians would be as familiar (if not more) with Spencer as with Cash.
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mdqp: Anyway, if you ever have any doubts, feel free to ask me.
on this note:

At some point in Act 1, McCoy can say something rude (while talking to Runciter), and Runciter reponds:
Runciter: Non è questo il modo di parlare delle persone, detective.
McCoy: (Voice) Spiacente, (Subs) Scusami. (The English transcript there is "sorry"). Does Spiacente make sense in this context?

A similar one is for restored content. Meeting Rachael in an elevator McCoy will draw her attention by saying:
(voice) Mi scuse. (subs) Scusami. (English is "Excuse me"). I think the subtitle is more appropriate, but maybe I'm wrong. Does "Mi scuse" fit here?
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PraetorianWolfie: At some point in Act 1, McCoy can say something rude (while talking to Runciter), and Runciter reponds:
Runciter: Non è questo il modo di parlare delle persone, detective.
McCoy: (Voice) Spiacente, (Subs) Scusami. (The English transcript there is "sorry"). Does Spiacente make sense in this context?
Spiacente can make sense: it's similar to "scusami"/"Sorry", it's slightly more formal and it's used a bit more often to apologize when you can't help something or to express contrition (in "sorry, but my hands are tied"). I think in this specific case it can also work because it can be interpreted in a sarcastic way. It should be fine to use the voice as the base, but I'd have to hear it to be sure, which conversation is it?

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mdqp: A similar one is for restored content. Meeting Rachael in an elevator McCoy will draw her attention by saying:
(voice) Mi scuse. (subs) Scusami. (English is "Excuse me"). I think the subtitle is more appropriate, but maybe I'm wrong. Does "Mi scuse" fit here?
It should be: "Mi scusi." (unless the actor messed up). This one is also fine, in fact it's a bit better because it's more polite (in Italy you are supposed to use the third person when speaking to someone if you want to show some extra respect, and when talking to strangers it's preferred at first, even if it isn't mandatory).