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I just started TOB two days ago, and have been enjoying it so far. However, it seems like it wants to be BG3, but it's not quite there. Did something happen in development? I'm not saying it's a bad game, far from it, it just seems a little different than the other two games. Sorry for my naivete.
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tessorb: I just started TOB two days ago, and have been enjoying it so far. However, it seems like it wants to be BG3, but it's not quite there. Did something happen in development? I'm not saying it's a bad game, far from it, it just seems a little different than the other two games. Sorry for my naivete.
It *is* a bad game. It is a complete mockery of the previous two games. There is zero exploration; there is zero plot; the dialog was written by a six year old... another failed sequel that could have, should have been so much more.
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tessorb: I just started TOB two days ago, and have been enjoying it so far. However, it seems like it wants to be BG3, but it's not quite there. Did something happen in development? I'm not saying it's a bad game, far from it, it just seems a little different than the other two games. Sorry for my naivete.
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Hickory: It *is* a bad game. It is a complete mockery of the previous two games. There is zero exploration; there is zero plot; the dialog was written by a six year old... another failed sequel that could have, should have been so much more.
It's not terrible, but yeah, not as good. What do you mean by *another*?
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tessorb: What do you mean by *another*?
A general term. I mean that it's another example of failed sequels.
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tessorb: I just started TOB two days ago, and have been enjoying it so far. However, it seems like it wants to be BG3, but it's not quite there. Did something happen in development? I'm not saying it's a bad game, far from it, it just seems a little different than the other two games. Sorry for my naivete.
It was originally planned to be a larger but it was scaled back during development. It ended up being a lot more linear and ended up having very few side quests compared to BG1 and Shadows of Amn.
Post edited August 22, 2015 by geoguy2011
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Hickory: It *is* a bad game. It is a complete mockery of the previous two games. There is zero exploration; there is zero plot; the dialog was written by a six year old... another failed sequel that could have, should have been so much more.
I wouldn’t praise Shadows of Amn for its (lack of) exploration incentives.
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Hickory: It *is* a bad game. It is a complete mockery of the previous two games. There is zero exploration; there is zero plot; the dialog was written by a six year old... another failed sequel that could have, should have been so much more.
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vv221: I wouldn’t praise Shadows of Amn for its (lack of) exploration incentives.
That was not my intent, but I see now how it may have come over. Still, it's heaps better than ToB.
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vv221: I wouldn’t praise Shadows of Amn for its (lack of) exploration incentives.
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Hickory: That was not my intent, but I see now how it may have come over. Still, it's heaps better than ToB.
I trust your word on this, I never played Throne of Bhaal farther than the first hour.
Actually I already got bored with SoA endgame, I think most of D&D ruleset charm is found at lower levels.
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vv221: I think most of D&D ruleset charm is found at lower levels.
I couldn't agree more. It's why I keep going back to BG1. I just wish I could play it again with no foreknowledge; meta gaming is so hard to avoid, even though I try very hard.
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vv221: I think most of D&D ruleset charm is found at lower levels.
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Hickory: I couldn't agree more. It's why I keep going back to BG1. I just wish I could play it again with no foreknowledge; meta gaming is so hard to avoid, even though I try very hard.
Personally, I find that the D&D ruleset at really low levels isn't fun. Attacks miss too often, everything dies in one or two hits, and spellcasters can't cast spells most of the time.

Things get better once you gain a few levels, fighters get some THAC0 improvement, and mages get more spells per day.
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Hickory: I couldn't agree more. It's why I keep going back to BG1. I just wish I could play it again with no foreknowledge; meta gaming is so hard to avoid, even though I try very hard.
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dtgreene: Personally, I find that the D&D ruleset at really low levels isn't fun. Attacks miss too often, everything dies in one or two hits, and spellcasters can't cast spells most of the time.

Things get better once you gain a few levels, fighters get some THAC0 improvement, and mages get more spells per day.
That *is* the fun. When you leave Candlekeep you're a fresh-faced 20 year old, with no formal combat training. You shouldn't be able to take on hardened bandits and tougher animals without dire danger. Though I agree about mages only having 1 spell at level 1 -- that's just ridiculous. I sometimes wish it was a mana based system or similar, rather than a per-rest system, which really sucks.
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dtgreene: Personally, I find that the D&D ruleset at really low levels isn't fun. Attacks miss too often, everything dies in one or two hits, and spellcasters can't cast spells most of the time.

Things get better once you gain a few levels, fighters get some THAC0 improvement, and mages get more spells per day.
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Hickory: That *is* the fun. When you leave Candlekeep you're a fresh-faced 20 year old, with no formal combat training. You shouldn't be able to take on hardened bandits and tougher animals without dire danger. Though I agree about mages only having 1 spell at level 1 -- that's just ridiculous. I sometimes wish it was a mana based system or similar, rather than a per-rest system, which really sucks.
The danger isn't the problem (though there is the issue that games should get harder, not easier, as you progress). The problem is that, at low levels, way too many attacks miss. Consider that a level one character, regardless of class, needs a roll of 10 to hit AC 10. A fighter might be able to manage a +4 bonus from strength + specialization, but even then such a fighter will miss a target of AC 5 (entirely reasonable at level 1) half the time. That is way too much and is quite frustrating.

Keep in mind that my observation applies to both sides of the fight. In practice, combat goes for a while until someone gets lucky, which is not the way I like fights to play out.

High level battles play out better in this respect. Most physical attacks will hit, making battles more predictable and less frustrating. (This is, of course, ignoring things like magic and High Level Abilities, which keep things interesting.) In other words, progress is being constantly made in the battle, rather than both sides being at a stalemate for most of the fight until someone gets lucky and suddenly kills someone else.

To think of it differently, imagine if *every* attack were a save-ore-die. *That* is how AD&D feels like at level 1.
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vv221: I think most of D&D ruleset charm is found at lower levels.
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Hickory: I couldn't agree more. It's why I keep going back to BG1. I just wish I could play it again with no foreknowledge; meta gaming is so hard to avoid, even though I try very hard.
Avoiding meta is kind of a paradox. If you know about the +1 tomes, wand of fireball, or anything else, it would be kind of foolish not to take it. It advances your purpose and the PC's only goal is to survive (and maybe revenge). If you look at the other side, how would your PC know about these things?
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jsidhu762: Avoiding meta is kind of a paradox. If you know about the +1 tomes, wand of fireball, or anything else, it would be kind of foolish not to take it. It advances your purpose and the PC's only goal is to survive (and maybe revenge). If you look at the other side, how would your PC know about these things?
I have absolutely no problem *not* picking up the +1 tomes, same with "epic" weapons/spells. I don’t beeline towards the companions/stuff that would be best for my character. I don’t re-roll my stats. I absolutely *never* min-max my character stats.

No, I’m not an alien, just a roleplayer ;)
And by the way, I don’t really like when my playstyle is labelled "foolish"…
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jsidhu762: Avoiding meta is kind of a paradox. If you know about the +1 tomes, wand of fireball, or anything else, it would be kind of foolish not to take it. It advances your purpose and the PC's only goal is to survive (and maybe revenge). If you look at the other side, how would your PC know about these things?
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vv221: I have absolutely no problem *not* picking up the +1 tomes, same with "epic" weapons/spells. I don’t beeline towards the companions/stuff that would be best for my character. I don’t re-roll my stats. I absolutely *never* min-max my character stats.

No, I’m not an alien, just a roleplayer ;)
And by the way, I don’t really like when my playstyle is labelled "foolish"…
I have to apologize for that. I honestly didn't mean to insult anyone. I'm pretty foolish myself when it comes to my choice of words.