Made a Monk too.

For not starting 13+ CHA, will likely miss on some quests, starting with Zhurlong'sBoots.
For starting with 18- STR will miss on certain stuff, starting with Joseph's Greenstone Ring (to bash the door you either need adequate lockpick, or 19 STR to bash).
For not being a mageling, can't circumgo the Problem of the Tomes, thus this char will not have them.

I also for see problem not being able to cause all sorts of damage (no non-magic attack: problem with magic golems, no fire damage: problem with trolls etc.).

And man, Monk sucks! Has no HP, has no attack speed... Youhave to sneak to Nashkel ASAP to get a minor healing bhaalspawn-ability, because sleeping for 1 HP SUCKS.
Btw, if you manage to defeat an opponent, keep it. You'll desperatly need the exp.

The assassination attempts are a major nuisance too. The one at the Inn has the problem of starting with mirror image, and later throwing magic missiles at you,and at this point you might not be even full of your miniscule HP. So as soon as you activate the fight run away and let the soldiers thin 'im down. To get the exp save, go in, hope the horror does not struck you, and do the finishing blow.

For the Beregost-one I needed clvl 3, starting with a successful stun punch, and manage to land two criticals. But did it, and that's what's important.
Oh yes, until you get to, I dunno, a comfortable level, sleep after each enemy for stun punch!
With clvl 3 could also retrieve M's letter. That was nice.

NOTE: I'm playing on Core diff as always, and set it to easy when leveling up for max HP (sountil clvl 10).

Managed to defeat those half-ogres the guy in Beregost wanned. Depends on luck though for a bit, though if your stun lands, it becomes substantialy easier.
This gave me enough reputation to make Zhurlong gimme his quest.
With some reloads managed to do the Carnival events, and save the talking chicken, and through all this running up-and down reached clvl 5.
With lvl 5 and double stun punch you actualy start to become somewhat of a threat. IF you are not sorrounded. You can beat up Basillus for example. Also, for Silke Idid her task, but as she refused to gimme more reward, Idecided to dash her this time.

At clvl 6 Hulric's Cow got protected.

I've looked at this tomic some, and there is one important question that you never answer, and that really should have been answered in the first post:
* What is a poverty run?

In particular, if you are playing with self-imposed restrictions, what are they?

Oh.Wow. My bad then. I thought the title explains it, but I'm standing here corrected. Sry, and thx for the notice. This below will be insterted in the first post too.

THE SOLO POVERTY RULES

Originaly the challenge is actualy Solo Insane Poverty, the difference being you were supposed to play on Insane Difficulty. I skipped that part not being masochistic, only looking for a challenge. So, here are the RULES OF POVERTY:

- it is a self-imposed restriction rule for the gameplay
- you play solo
- you play as high a difficulty as you dare. My choice of difficulty is Core Difficulty, where the monsters deal the damage as intended. Playing solo the "no permanent death for the party" rule means absolutely nothing (the only other thing the difficulty setting is for).
- I play the games merged. This means I always thave the 8 million exp cap, no artificial barrier anywhere. I still gather exp though normaly doing quests and stuff.
- here is the most important rule: YOU ARE NO ALLOWED TO USE ANY ITEM. You heared that right. No weapon, no armor, no rings of Gaxx, no wands, no potions, no nothing. (I only have the original trilogy, my bet goes, the additional expansions make BG2's beggining even more easy, so for this challenge it works better if you don't have those, I have no idea on mods though, so you'll hear no Ascension or such from me.)
- sub rule: you may use quest items. This means items demanded to finish quests. Only for their intended purposes.
- optional rule: you may use quest items. This means either items to solve quests, but for other means than just use them where they are absolutely demanded, or even quest-rewards. This though can highly endanger the purpose of this challenge (still a fun idea, way smalleritem pool then you got used to). My sorcerer actualy worn the Mask of King Strohm III for a while, which given he wasn't hit often can be considered just a very lucky play (the mask prevents critical hits). He lost his mask though for the dragon of Shuldanesselar though.
- another rule is, that you are not allowed to spend any money aside when quests demand it. So no buying items, no buying reputation, and no buying healing. You sold everything you own, and gave the money to the poor, to earn your reward in the Hall of Fame.

And that's pretty much it. No items (aside for solving quests), and no money (aside for the purpose of solving quests).

Byur current knowledge 3 characters might have a chance getting anywhere this way: the sorcerer, the monk, and the cleric/thief. None is sure any of them can finish the trilogy. It is proven sorcerer (or sorceress) can reach atl east to Abazigail (I'm still to try thatfight, and after that Balthazar, The Ravager,and finaly Amelyssan), and Cleric/Thief to beat Sharevok.

Possible variant: Extend the prohibition to apply to quest items and money spent, unless it's required for a mandatory quest (and there's no alternative path that would avoid this). In other words, if a side quest requires an item or requires spending money, you are not allowed to do that side quest. This would mean that the only permitted side quests are those that don't involve quest items and don't require spending money.

(Of course, in BG2 paying the fee needed to go from Chapter 2 to Chapter 3 would be allowed, as that's a mandatory part of the main quest, unless you're willing to glitch around that requirement (and I think that glitch may require Limited Wish, making it not reasonable to require for this challenge).)

Are spells that create weapons, like Flame Blade and the classic version of Enchanted Weapon, allowed?

(The Enchanted Weapon spell was changed in the Enhanced Edition so it now modifies existing weapons instead of creating new ones, so the EE version of the spell would not work for this challenge.)

By the way, it occurs to me that Druid could be a viable option, as they get spells just like Clerics (so no scrolls needed), and their shape change ability can allow them to actually fight (assuming that the natural weapons of such forms don't violate the rules, but I wouldn't expect it to). You could even try Fighter/Druid for the improved THAC0 and number of attacks from the Fighter levels, which IIRC work while shapechanged. (Plus, before shape change, there are spells that create temporary weapons that could be used.)

Cleric is very dependant on equipment, I don't think pure cleric will get you anywhere. Cleric/Thief seems more advantageous, with Trap Of Cheese, and stealth. But be welcomed to try pure cleric.

And no, sorcerer is NOT overpower even in unmodded game. It is likely your bestbet, but you need a very specific spell-set to get far, and possibly get over the original exp-limit ofBG1 to gainsome demanded spell.

The problem is, a poverty-character is in exp-hunger. You definitely want exp ASAP, else you'll be massacred for the lack of HP, thac0, or the lack of ability to hurt people. Sure, because that is an ability of yours, not a permanent physical thing. Yes, the EE version of mentioned spell will not suffice. BUT considering how the original spell worked, and it is a useless wizard spell (with wizard caster you rly don't want to melee at that level), you could, for the duration of the spell (IF you manage to successfully cast it) put an unenchanted weapon to use in EE, giving equaly chance, or something. I rly think this topic is entirely marignal.Take good intentions dealing with it.
Things that should work are things like Melf's Minute Meteors, Energy Discs, Shillelagh, Flame Blade, Spiritual Hammer, Black Blade of Disaster, Sol's Searing Orb (this one sucks).
Basicaly consider any summoned weapon as any summoned creature, trap, etc.

PS: at clvl 6 got through the Nashkel Mines, so now have 2 small healing spell. For the next two abilities, ahve to mention, both suck for monk. The cure poison will soon be redundant as onlvl 11 you gain immunity to it, but ghoul touch is like a nerfed stun punch - does the same, but takes away your damage, and has higher casting time. And if you'd have those, you'd have to grind back your reputation toget DUHM,which is obviously superior to Vampire Touch.

The Mountain Bear (where you can get the snow boots) ment unexpected headache,what I managed to overcome at clvl 7. Things start to look good, but being mobbed is still a pain.

Against casters yourmain strategy is peek-a-boo,aka. make them run out of spells.
Your biggest weapon though is your speed. Do hit&run. Many enemies can't even hit you, youcansimply run out of reach before they could strike. And for like the bandit camp main tent, you can lure the enemy to the fieldof your choice, where you can run into the fog-of-war and rest, dividing them, hunting them down one-by-one, luring themby showing yourself.

PPS: the reason why not many classes cantake the Poverty Challenge at all is, without a weapon you can't kill things. Literly, they just faint, and never disappear from the game, stand up again and again attacking you. And you can't trap everything.
So thieves are out of question, because their only method to finish are traps. And good luck with that.
Bards only gain spells from lvl 2. Warriors don't gain spells at all.
This leaves us with casters - and the monk. I just realised something considering the monk. Remember the room, right after you turn into the slayer in Bodhi's Maze, at Spellhold? The room, where you are taken to be tested by the supervisors? The room with 6 golbins, some standing on pillars? Now that's the reasopn why monkcann ot finish this challenge!
Thus I abandon my mmonk, unless someone points out how I could do ranged damage with it without equipment.

Well, even if I'll have to "cheat", I'll keep the monk. Still too bad.

I'm gradualy working up through the areas, currently unvisited are:
- N of FAI, Cloakwood 2+, Ulcaster, Gullykin, Firewine Bridge, NE of Nashkel Mines.

In Ulaster met the problem that Icharyd is immun to normal weapons. Bugger.
Aec'Letec is also immun to normal weapons, not that I'd ever tryto mess with its gaze anyway.
I'm pretty sure too, monk fist doesn't count as silver weapon, so there goes Werewolf Island (you still can deliver the chart).
Mustard Jellies are out of reach too, because of immunity to normal weapons. Can't wait for clvl 9. Aside the fact, that officialy you're not supposed to reach that level, the exp-maximum for monk, even with TotSC (or just EE) is lvl 8.
Flesh Golems are also normal weapon immun (NWI from now).
Oh, ye, there are Vampiric Wolves too. Of course just like the Revenant. And the Doomsayer.

Also, monk's AC is not good, so avoid ghouls and ghasts whenever possible. See no chance toraid that tomb with 3 ghasts in it for example.

Nowthis is weird. That enemies never sleep (and likely don't suffer fatigue) isa good thing, I want to rise another thing. Skipped CWF#2 by sneaking, so thought, I never attacked the shadow druiids in #3, why not. Well, the reason is, they cost reputation for some reason. Bugger.

Well, I guess you would just need to find other ways to get experience, like killing enemies or figuring out which quests you *can* do without breaking the rule.

I don't think you catch up to the situation.
With the serious downgrade of solo poverty, there isn't much choice of doing quests. At least not until oyu are Bloody High Level. And believe me, you won't be that in BG1. BG2 has a lot more leaway, but there you get certain timed quests just to spice tings up, heh (assuming you don't want to just abandone those).
And hunting random monsters? You can't be serious with this. When a random enemy gives lett's say 100-200 exp, and the next level is 10-100K expaway, that's onlya theoretical option. You need the quests, and with no items, you barely have enough to reach the nextlevel before the run out.

Let's take my current situation.
I'm lvl 7, closing lvl 8. I'll need to double my exp to reach lvl 9. Reaching clvl 9 is still technicaly fine, as I don't have Siege of Dragonspear, and that'd give that the exp-cap, so I'm very generous with this one. On that level though I should be able to face Sharevok. And I'm not sure monk can.
But let's getback to the present.
I can't do the Ooze-mage quest (NE ofNashkel mines) because of lack of magic weapon. Taking the basilisk-area is a major risk, and I have no idea if I could effectively help the ghoul. Can't defeat Icharyd (Ulcaster) for lack of magic weapon. No idea about the ankhegs, but they are no suprise, the original power-barrier. Can't face the Doomsayer for lack of magic weapon, and because it's bloody strong. Can't win against the Best Swordsman, and can't even hit the Carsa Jahr ogre mage. So my only option is, facing the Cloakwood Forest 2, where everything will want to poison me, andmy crappy AC. And what'll happen when I get down its mine? The battle horrors sound major problem. If I get stuck there, whatcan I do?
Ok, I justrealised I have stealth, so I could, at least in theory, start Durlag's Tower (super strong enemies, and what's not is ghast/ghoul,aka. Bloody Annoying),

Giving this a shot, I think a clear winner here is Shifter druid. Unlike other druids, you can wildshape from level 1 and basically never shift out except to cast spells. So far I've made it to Nashkell on my own without resting, reaching level 4 without much difficulty. I doubt this would be a great build to solo through BGII and ToB but it's crazy strong out of the gate in BG TuTu.

I think even a vanilla druid could manage with melee spells and barkskin although it would be a lot rougher. I'd still take druid or cleric over monk any day, I don't know how anyone has the patience for that class.

P.S. I think using the ability enhancement tomes should be a clear violation of the vow since those are some of the most powerful items you can find in the game.

There are people who would actually take the time to accomplish such feats.

There was one person who took the time to reach max level in the first dungeon of Final Fantasy 7. Apparently, it took roughly 500 hours to do that, but somebody actually felt like doing that tedious task.

If you want to do that, just simulate the effect adding yourself exp through the cheat-bar. But where's the fun in that?

So, given that the Monk is unable in the end to do a poverty-run,because of Spellhold, I created the cleric/thief.

Again all the classes and why they can not complete poverty run (for the whole BG1-2-ToB):
- fighter: weapon is demanded to cause damage, and ALL items are off-limit
- barbarian: weapon is demanded to cause damage, and ALL items are off-limit
- thief: weapon is demanded to cause damage, and ALL items are off-limit. The class' only option to do damage otherwise is traps, and those can't be layed everywhere.
- mage: scrolls are demanded to learn spells, thus cause damage, and ALL items are off-limit
- wild mage: scrolls are demanded to learn spells, thus cause damage, and ALL items are off-limit
- ranger: their limited pool of magic won't get them anywhere
- paladin: their limited pool of magic won't get them anywhere
- bard: their limited pool of magic won't get them anywhere
- monk: incapable to cause ranged damage

Those who might be able:
- sorcerer/ress: arcane casting is obviously a tool that can carry you far
- shaman, druid, cleric, aka. divine casters
From the later three cleric seems to be the most advantageous by leveling up the fastest, and being able to multiclass.
Multiclassing isvery attractive option given how limited the HLAs for these classes are. The obvious addition is the fastest advancing thief class, which can provide such abilities as laying traps and remove illusions amongst others. Given that divine casters are SLOW casters, such things are very attractive.

So with that out of the way:
- at start your only option to cause damage will be Shillelagh. Spend 1 gold in the tavern to memorize 3 of it for now. You can get money from the quests, though your CHA will likely be only 3. Also can sell the healing potion you get as a gift, and pester the mage for the 300 gold.
- you'll need 1 casting to get rid of the northern assassin. You'll have enough duration to defeat the three nameless cow too.
- you'll need another casting to get rid of the rat infestation. Actualy you might need another casting, but you can just lay a trap for the last rat. You can NOT defeat the cats too without another casting.
- you'll need your 3rd casting to defeat the southern assassin.
Now you'll have to leave the area.

NOTE: obviously you want to play a good character, especialy if cleric. First, the Summon Deva for evils in the vanilla games at least is bugged. Second, the Turn Undead evil version is crap (no primary effect, no exp from it, no instant elimination of creatures).

To the Friendly Arm Inn:
- you CAN defeat the Of Belts right now. Remove Imoen from the party, then sleep. To be on the safe side you might want to memorise 3 Magic Stone, but you actualy need 1. Go to the ogre, and save&reload to set a trap. Cast a stone approaching, and hope the trap will do enough damage along the stone. Cast all your stones if you have to, reload if not enough.
- to get inside the Inn I assume you could avoid the assassin by casting Sanctuary. ButI assume that's unnecessary. Instead memorize 3Sillelagh again. You'll need 2 to get Joia's Flamedance Ring, and using the local guards you can get the exp for the assassin too.

NOTE: as a multiclass cleric/thief you can either be gnome, or half-orc. The gnome has lower maximum wisdom. Half-orc has incrised STR maximum which benefits thac0. HOs get noticably less thief skillpoints, but on the long term that equals out (for no place to spend), and are percentages anyway, which means you just need more patience.
On theother side gnomes also get shorty-saves.
Your choice.
For this I run a half-orc for the memory of a famous local fantasy figure.

NOTE: there's no way to identify the stat-tomes with this character, so no argument there.

NOTE: technicaly, by some margin, you'dbenefitmore to have low reputation during the first chapters, given you can cast healing spells without any problem. I'm not entirely sure this'd worth the fuss.

NOTE: likely weapon prophiciencies do not play, but in case they do, start with onehanded weapons (all your summoned weapons are such). Also start with club for sillelagh. Hammer and Short Sword are the other two that might benefit you (information is conflicting) with Spiritual Hammer and Flame Blade.Flame Blade has higher damage, while the hammer might turn to a +2 weapon with exp-cap removed still in BG1. There are no trolls in BG1 though,so Flame Blade is not a must. Hammer's thac0-bonus might prove insufficient though.

NOTE on lockpick: Not sure how high you need to get access to all the quests, especialy if you play orc of 19 STR (that can bash through practicaly anything half-important). 25% is enough though to pick up the Joseph's Greenstone Ring quest.

Beregost:
- with some very lucky rolls and clvl 2 in thief (points: 33% set traps, 26% sneak/move silently (stealth from now on, rising both equaly), 20% remove illusion) managed to dispose the local assassin (landed a hit twice, and used trap).
- 25% steal was enough to get Algernon's Cloak
- Zhurlong, just like Unshey before does not talk with me. I think they'll never be, as my best reaction canbe 10-8+4 = 6? Given how much stat this character needs (max STR, max DEX, 16 CON, max WIS, some INT doesn't hurt either because of illithids) I just don't think I should bother with 2 more in CHA for them. Sure, it's a loss of 1,100 exp, but then again, I can just hunt random monsters.
- with 19 STR you can with noticable ease dispose the spiders in Landarin's home one-by-one. Using Sanctuary gives you a hugh advantage (it is even better than Invisibility as it lets you open chests). Sanctury does not tolerate laying traps! In the end even if you don't fight the spiders for now (I had 2 levels in cleric too when entering), you still can pick up 2 quest items here. Bringing in all three items made me thief3.
- used a bless to dispose the three opposing Silke, then a trap to dispose Silke. 1-2 hit with the magic club slong did the trick. This made me Cleric3,

NOTE: you can not extend the duration of magical weapons by recasting while the previous charge is still on. That just wastes your spell.

NOTE: if you can pick up a quest, the exp-reward will always be the same. Only the monetary gain can change accordingto the reaction value.

Bassillus Area:
- with 2nd lvl spells unlocked, and the benefit of 18 WIS, cast a lot of buff (chant, bless, barkskin), and tried my luck on Bassilus after a Silence struck him. Ended up victorious. I'm still playing on Core difficulty with max HP (at lvlup difficulty is lowered).
- saving Melicamp and getting rid of the hobgoblins was no task in comparsion. Ok, the hobgoblins were a bit thougher than expected. But after them I became 3/4.
- changing back Melicamp made me 4/4.

Lvl 1 spell analysis:
- Armor of Faith: on higher level it obviously might provide some protection, but low level it's mostly worthless
- Bless: advantageous
- Command: the duration is short, and I never had any idea what it is good against. Still might want to keep in mind it exists.
- Cure Light Wounds: the useis obvious
- Detect Evil: worthless
- Doom: maybe, later, against boss-level creatures it might have some use, but nah.
- Magic Stone: you can'tpre-cast, has a long casting time and minimal damage. Mostly Irrelevant.
- Protection from evil: if youhave many slots, and preparingabig fight, because it is somewhat situational,while Bless isn't.
- Remove Fear: I'm not familiar with this spell. If this can prevent fear, itis awesome, though situational. If it can not, then it is worthless.
- Santuary: tactical spell
- Sillelagh: your basic attack spell. It still has a casting time though, so becareful.

Lvl 2 spell analysis:
- Aid: it is a crappy buff/healing spell. Skip it if you have any alternative.
- Barkskin: it gives a nice AC on lowlevel. High level you obviously will avoid melee.
- Chant: it givesabonus, and has a semi-long duration. Good buff.
- Draw Upon Holy Migth: I'm not a fan on low level, and later you'll have it from ability (you will, won't you?)
- Find Traps: I just walk over traps, but just in case, this can spare you a lotof thief points.
- Flame Blade: it has a nice damage. Toobad, thief/cleric can't have short sword proficiency (in case it applies)
- Hold Person: there is saving throw against it, but let's be honest, it's a reload-based cheat for those situations.
- Know Alignment: useless
- Resist Fire/Cold: only 50%, but dual element. Situational, but ok.
- Silence: extremly situational (only memorize if you know you go agains tcasters), but potentialy gamebreaking
- Slow Poison: the goodnews is, it comes very early. The bad news is, it is not instantaneous. And is situational. Ifeel we reload instead.
- Spiritual Hammer: this isa real magical weapon with all of those' benefits. Sadly the base damage is pretty low.

In theory, this might be possible if you do the games separately rather than try to do them all with the same character. In BG1, you can do damage with magic missile; in BG2 you can choose up to 4th level spells at character creation (Polymorph Self offers some interesting possibilities, for example), and Throne of Bhaal lets you choose even higher level spells at the start (you could even use the Chaos Shield stacking + Nahal's Reckless Dweomer + Limited With exploit here with a wild mage).

Another thing I am wondering: Is it allowed to use the items produced by Scribe Scroll and Brew Potion (thief/bard HLA abilities)? How about the magic flute? (Arguably, one might allow the flute since it's a temporary item but not the output of the other HLAs mentioned.)

Honestly, it just doesn't feel the same if you just simulate it by cheating.

Of course, I am now wondering how long it would take to get to level 40 in Chapter 1 of BG1 (assuming some form of BG1-in-BG2, and that the XP cap has been increased to 8 million). I wouldn't advise actually doing this, but it should still be possible to come up with a reasonable estimate. (Is it possible to do this in the prologue, or are there no renewable XP sources at that point?)

Interresting idea.

It is an item. Items are not allowed. Familiars are allowed because those are living beings, not items.

Close to my argument. The core idea actualy is, that you play legit, and that'd mean not even the exp cap isremoved, and you would have to deal with the exp-caps.
But I say it is the same character, and installations of the original games would causeall kinds of problems (certain items types not existing, kits not existing etc.), and would cut you from entire species to use.

The obvious problem with just South Park WoW-ing up to clvl 50 is, that the HLAs are insane. Why waste your time with it, when obviously at that level everything before ToB will be a cakewalk?
If you want that, just cheat yourself up to clvl 50, and get over it.