Agreed. Personally, I've never understood the fascination powergamers seem to have with Kensai, their bonii to melee only get really useful at high fighter levels and a +3 to hit and damage isn't worth giving up the ability to use shields or armor imo.
If you really want to use a fighter kit then dual to mage at level 9, then use a berserker, their drawbacks are minimal and the immunities you get during rage can be extremely useful , especially in BG 1 when your saves suck.


Agreed. The only reason to dual Imoen to mage during BG 1 is if you already have another thief in your party, in which case Imoen can be your best mage.


Agreed. Don't get so hung up on party composition and all the advice given by powergamers. If BG 1 and 2 are easy enough to solo, they're easy enough to win with just about any party, once you get familiar with AD&D rules.
Just concentrate on enjoying your playthrough instead on trying to minmax it to death and you'll have a lot more fun imo.

Assuming you are going right through to ToB, the levels 9 or 13 are best in terms of benefits, but the higher you go, the longer you have to wait to regain your original skills.

(Not counting any racial bonuses):
Level 9 Fighter gets 9D10 HP, THAC0 12, 8/10/9/9/11 saving throws, 7 proficiency points, 1.5 attacks per round.

Level 13 Fighter gets 9D10+12 HP, THAC0 8, 5/7/6/5/8 saving throws, 8 proficiency points, 2 attacks per round.

Level 9 Thief gets 9D6 HP, THAC0 16, 11/10/10/14/11 saving throws, 4 proficiency points, +4 Backstab multiplier.

Level 13 Thief gets 10D6+6 HP, THAC0 14, 10/8/9/13/9 saving throws, 5 proficiency points, +5 Backstab multiplier.

So, 9 is optimum, but 13 is best if you are prepared to wait that bit longer to regain your original skills.

I think you may be remembering the kensai kit wrong. They can't wear any armor, shield or bracers, and I think they only get a +2 AC bonus.
A Kensai with 18 Dex would start off with an AC of 4, with no real way to improve on it, except barkskin (which requires a level 3+ druid).
A normal tank with a scale armor, a shield and a dex of 18 (with the bracers or naturally) has an AC of 0, and can easily get to -5 or so with +1 gear and/or a full plate mail that's easy to buy fairly early.
With even better gear a tank can get around -10 AC, and that's not even going into the other benefits you can get from magical armor shields and bracers.

In exchange for that horrible AC that means they can't tank anything, kensai get +1 to hit and to damage every 3 levels. That's very much not worth it imo.
Typically, in a campaign setting where you have lots of powerful magic items, giving up the ability to equip some of those items is a very bad idea unless you get huge benefits. And except at high levels, kensai don't get enough benefits to offset the cost.
Simply put, tanking is half the job of a warrior class, and kensai can't do it effectively in Baldur's Gate.

Kensai is *not* a tank; Kensai is not *designed* to be a tank. Kensai is a damage dealer. Take this scenario: Play as a Kensai to level 13 to get 2 attacks per round. Dual to Thief for the Backstab and the HLA Use Any Item. Combined with Kai, there are not many critters who can withstand a backstab from this character, AND he/she can eventually wear any item, including armour. Even dualling to Mage is not an issue, because mages can't use armour, anyway. Tanking is only a big deal in BG1, and early BG2. Eventually, saving throws become MUCH more important than AC.

Well I started a new game for the second time. IS it possible to have Edwin and Minsc on the same team? I already took on Edwin and we're gonna go to the Gnoll Stronghold. If we kill Dynaheir ,will Minsc refuse to join my party when I talk to him in Nashkel?

If you rescue Dynaheir with Minsc and then talk to Edwin, he'll offer to join your party under the pretense that he's helping protect you from her. I'm sure that eventually Edwin will get into a fight with Minsc and Dynaheir after a certain time, though with tweaks for Tutu, you can make it so they don't fight and just keep them in your team.


EDIT: As for the whole "fighter is meant to be a tank" thing, did you not read what I posted? AC lowering potions, and barkskin/spirit armor for BG1 and 2 respectively more than protect your kensai from dying. No that doesn't make them a liability; that would be like saying mages are a liability because they need to cast Mirror Image and Stoneskin to keep themselves from being murdered.

Kensais weren't even designed for tanking anyway, they were designed to maximize damage and chunk the enemy as quickly as possible.

Pick up Minsc and Dynaheir first. Edwin will join then to 'keep an eye on her'. If Dynaheir then has 'an unfortunate accident', Edwin and Minsc (minus Dynaheir) will not become a problem.

Just for reference, here are the characters that will come to blows in BG1:

Ajantis: Attacks ANY evil aligned party member. (10% chance)
Dynaheir: Attacks Edwin (100% chance; 50% chance if Minsc is in party.)
Edwin: Attacks Dynaheir (100% chance)
Eldoth: Attacks Shar-Teel (33% chance)
Shar-Teel: Attacks Eldoth (33% chance)
Jaheira: Attacks Xzar (50% chance)
Khalid: Attacks Montaron and/or Xzar (50% chance)
Kivan: Attacks Viconia, in theory, but the script is weighted such that it never happens.
Quale: Attacks Tiax (33% chance)
Tiax: Attacks Quayle (5% or 16% chance -- two separate checks)
Branwen: Attacks Tiax (10% chance) Note this can also trigger the Tiax/Quayle fight.

I already picked up Edwin beforehand. It worked out in the end though. I dropped him from my party(he said he would stay put for a bit) then I talked to Minsc and had him join my party. After saving Dynahier I came back to Edwin and he joined the party again.(with no reference to Dynaheir even being in the party) Now I will just have Dynaheir have a tragic accident so I can have Minsc and Edwin on the same team.

Yes, well, we WERE talking about BG 1. Simply put, a fighter who can't tank is a lot less useful in BG 1 than one who can.

And frankly, for the whole "damage dealer" thing, kensai only have +1 to hit and damage every 3 levels. It's not much, imo, considering the huge bonuses to damage you get from strength and weapons. Sure, every bit helps, but it's not worth the cost imo.


Except kensai need to be in melee range, while mages aren't supposed to. There aren't enough potions of defence to cover a lot of fights and barkskin requires you bring Jaheira with you (or Faldorn but she's even worse).

As for kensai not being designed for tanking, that's exactly my point. Fighters who can't tank are a lot less useful than those who can, and the damage bonus kensai get over a straight fighter is nowhere near enough to make up for that deficiency, until high levels where AC doesn't matter much anyway.

Erm, no actually. The OP clearly stated:

"I was originally planning to dual Imoen and myself into a mage, but at level 9, where the game would be pretty much finished and I would be on my way to BG2."

and also:

"I'm running BGT"

So BG2 and onwards was very much in mind. Are you joking? A plus 1 To Hit every 3 levels is *massive*, especially when you factor in Kai. And Strength is not even a factor -- a Kensai can have equal or higher Strength as any tank character. I get the impression that you've never played as a Kensai.

1) A fighter/mage is not meant to be a pure mage to begin with; the whole point is to use the protective spells to make them harder to kill in melee range. That's how a fighter mage, and in fact, a Kensai/Mage is supposed to be played.

2) I'm guessing you haven't rolled a kensai through BG1. I did it just recently, with a non-power gamey party, and I pretty much decimated half the enemies I crossed by dual-wielding longswords and utilizing Kai with Draw Upon Holy Might, which is one of the unique powers you can gain outside of class restrictions. And are you kidding? the game CHOKES YOU TO DEATH with defense potions. Not that it matters since you save those for tougher mobs and boss fights anyways.

Fine. That doesn't change the fact that your kensai PC will be subpar for all of BG 1 and most of BG 2 when AC matters.

Exaggeration much? +1 to hit every 3 levels is far from massive for a fighter, considering all the to hit bonuses you get from strength, proficiencies and weapons. Furthermore, as you said yourself AC stops mattering after a while, and so does to hit for warriors.
As for Kai, given that damage range on a weapon is a small part of the damage you'll actually do, it's a fairly useless ability. When you're doing 20+ guaranteed damage per hit from strength, proficiencies and your weapon enchantment, whether your roll a 1 or an 8 on the damage roll of your longsword isn't that important.

I've never played a kensai PC because I dislike the concept, but I've played all of BG 2 and ToB with a pure kensai NPC in my party (IIRC, Chloe from the mod of the same name) and she didn't do much more damage when fighting than, say, Minsc.
OTOH, you had to constantly micromanage her to pull her out of melee each time she got aggro, so overall she did less damage than a straight up fighter.


Yes I know how to play a fighter/mage thanks. What's your point? The fact remains that your fighter/mage is a better tank if he can actually equip armor and shields instead of constantly having to rely on buff spells.


That's not much of a claim. BG 1 can be soloed, so with a full party you'll be slaughtering most of the enemies you come across, no matter what kind of PC you have, provided you have a clue how to play the game.
As for drowning under defence potions, that's just not true, unless you buy them. I'm playing through BG 1 with a bard right now, I'm starting the cloakwood areas, and I have 6 potions of defence in my inventory. And no, I haven't used any.


Anyway, It's obvious we're not going to agree on kensai, so I'll stop here.
I still think the small damage bonus you get is not worth the gear access you lose, and is much worse than the immunities provided by berserker rage.
Feel free to think otherwise.

No, you're wrong again. A Kensai will ONLY be sub-par in AC. Period. You continually bring up bonuses from Strength and weapons, when a Kensai get the same bonuses. You obviously have never ran a Kensai, and as such don't know what you're talking about. That says it all... say no more.