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Baldur's Gate seriesBG 1: Tips for a new player(103 posts)(103 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted October 27, 2013
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pi4t: Ok, if you're taking a pure thief (or multiclassed thief), then getting the hide skill up early is possibly the most important thing after detect traps, as there aren't many (any?) really tough locks early on.
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Hickory: One of the hardest locks in the entire game is in the tutorial, believe it or not (it can't even be bashed with 18/00 strength) -- it is possible to open it and get (relatively) rich before you even set out. But that lock is special, and entirely out of place... cheese. On the other hand, even locks that have hard difficulty don't necessarily hold anything worthwhile, or even anything at all. Don't tell me you haven't come across numerous trapped and locked chests, salivating, only to find them empty?
I'll have to tell you that I've never come across a trapped and/or locked chest which was empty. On the other hand, early in the game before I'd got my open locks skill high enough (or access to Knock), it seemed like every other lock I'd come up to salivating with excitement, only to find myself unable to open it. It's not just '5gp silver rings' you find in chests (that's more the region of pickpocketing, and why we both agree that's useful), many of the powerful magic items, or at least scrolls which your wizard can learn or cast, are found in locked chests. Ok, you can use Knock to open just those chests, but only if you know which chests they are. In much the same way, I'm able to cast invisibility on those few occasions when I actually need it, and the great thing about invisibility is that you can cast it on anyone who needs it, not just your thief/mage. If you push up hide in shadows as well, that's several extra levels of thief, which will slow (and for the duration of BG1 stop entirely, I think) you from being able to use invisibility, as well as lots of other spells

On the other hand, if you're planning to dual class the thief into something more squishy like a mage, then you don't really want them out in front of everyone if battles start, and scouting will therefore be less useful anyway. As I say, unless its importance rises later in BG2, it's not a vital requirement anyway, in the same way find traps is.
I don't put my mage/thief in danger that way, because they fulfill a completely different role, but you are overlooking the fact that Hide In Shadows is incredibly handy in other ways than scouting. Want to put your mage/thief into place for a set piece of your choosing? You have the tool to do it. Need to hide your mage/thief before a difficult battle, so that they aren't attacked first, and have their spells interrupted? You have the means to do it. Stealth is incredibly useful, and anybody who overlooks it, plays it down or dismisses it, obviously hasn't grasped just what it can bring to the game plan. It's a safe bet that the reason a lot of people don't utilise it is precisely because they think a thief is all about unlocking everything in sight for those 5gp silver rings, and nothing more. That thief is a sad thief.
I do see that there could be benefits to being able to position your mage/thief before battle begins (nothing more irritating that being unable to use an A.'s Scorcher because your tanks are all in the way). On the other hand, using the two columns formation (which is the right size to block most dungeon corridors), you can be nearly guaranteed that the mage won't be attacked by melee enemies, and most ranged based enemies aren't too hard to kill and fall quite easily to my melee fighters (who, of course, get a bonus to their attacks as the enemy is using a ranged weapon). When fighting mages, I'd honestly generally prefer to begin my casting ASAP and (hopefully) manage to get my spell off and interrupt his casting. What's more, enemies who are capable of interrupting my casting generally seem to open up with an AoE of some sort (be it some way of preventing me from attacking, or a direct damage spell), and it doesn't matter whether you're hidden or not for that sort of thing. If you just stand back a bit if you're worried about being interrupted, you'll at worst waste a round or so, and will be equipped to remove any negative effects you can which were given to your party.

You also have to consider that, yes, you've cunningly positioned your thief/mage at the other side of the group of enemies to everybody else. You've also cast a spell, and are now visible. Enemies are now targeting you, and you've lost the protection of your tanks. Hide in shadows and run somewhere else? That'll waste time which you could otherwise have spent casting another spell. I haven't tried, I admit, so it may be that the ai, having chosen your big stompy fighters as targets, will now ignore the squishy mage right behind them. That, though, I'd consider a fault of the AI and very cheesy to exploit. That's especially true of ranged enemies, who would suffer no penalties for switching targets (although, come to think of it, did 2e dnd have any equivalent of the attacks of opportunity to prevent melee fighters from moving round each other and attacking the mages, other than physically blocking the space?)

All in all, though, Auro, I think you've gathered from this that having a thief with find traps high is essential (80+ sound about right to you, Hickory?), and that you shouldn't bother with pickpocket. If you choose to focus in open locks, you'll want some invisibilities prepared at all times, and if you focus on hide in shadows, you'll want some knock spells ready.

One further tip which I discovered to my cost: don't sell a weapon which has a higher + value than you're currently using, until you have enough to equip everyone who fights with weapons with one if you need to. This even applies if no one is proficient with the weapon type. For instance, I recently sold a quite nice +3 spear, when all my party was using +2 weapons, as no one had proficiency in spear. I then came across an enemy which was immune to weapons below +3...fortunately, I'd since acquired a cursed +3 spear, and I had another +3 weapon I couldn't sell anyway, so I was able to kill it.

That tip obviously applies more to BG2, but there are enemies in BG1 which are immune to unenchanted weapons.
Posted October 27, 2013
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ydobemos: You can afford to try it out and see what works for you in this regard.
Pretty much the key to this whole argument. While I come down on the side of Stealth being useful but not vital (but, man is it useful!). it really boils down to how you play the game. One thing I will say re pickpocketing is it can net you some useful stuff here and there, but it really shines in some shops where you can steal stuff.
Posted October 27, 2013
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pi4t: All in all, though, Auro, I think you've gathered from this that having a thief with find traps high is essential (80+ sound about right to you, Hickory?), and that you shouldn't bother with pickpocket. If you choose to focus in open locks, you'll want some invisibilities prepared at all times, and if you focus on hide in shadows, you'll want some knock spells ready.
Yes, this is the crux: Find Traps is absolutely essential (I always aim for 100% to minimise potentially lethal 'mistakes') because ONLY a thief can disable them. The other skills depend on your own personal game style.
Posted October 27, 2013
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pi4t: All in all, though, Auro, I think you've gathered from this that having a thief with find traps high is essential (80+ sound about right to you, Hickory?), and that you shouldn't bother with pickpocket. If you choose to focus in open locks, you'll want some invisibilities prepared at all times, and if you focus on hide in shadows, you'll want some knock spells ready.
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Hickory: Yes, this is the crux: Find Traps is absolutely essential (I always aim for 100% to minimise potentially lethal 'mistakes') because ONLY a thief can disable them. The other skills depend on your own personal game style.
Given that wearing any kind of armor imposes a penalty on your Thief skills, it is actually worth considering sinking more than 100% into a particular skill unless they are going completely unarmored. Granted, and [url=http://www.purpleworm.org/rules/PHB/DD01503.htm]Dexterity adjustments might cancel that out, so it really depends on the character involved.
Posted October 27, 2013
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Hickory: Yes, this is the crux: Find Traps is absolutely essential (I always aim for 100% to minimise potentially lethal 'mistakes') because ONLY a thief can disable them. The other skills depend on your own personal game style.
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Jonesy89: Given that wearing any kind of armor imposes a penalty on your Thief skills, it is actually worth considering sinking more than 100% into a particular skill unless they are going completely unarmored. Granted, and [url=http://www.purpleworm.org/rules/PHB/DD01503.htm]Dexterity adjustments might cancel that out, so it really depends on the character involved.
Again, you don't need to consider this on a character going into mage, as they'll want to be unarmoured anyway.
Posted October 27, 2013
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Jonesy89: Given that wearing any kind of armor imposes a penalty on your Thief skills, it is actually worth considering sinking more than 100% into a particular skill unless they are going completely unarmored. Granted, and [url=http://www.purpleworm.org/rules/PHB/DD01503.htm]Dexterity adjustments might cancel that out, so it really depends on the character involved.
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pi4t: Again, you don't need to consider this on a character going into mage, as they'll want to be unarmoured anyway.
True; I only mentioned that to the extent someone was thinking about not dualing into mage, or if they were thinking of carrying armor to slap on after they had exhausted their spellcasting for the day. There is always the possibility that a thief/mage will have a low Dex to the point that it inflicts penalties on their skills, but it would have to obscenely low for that to start being a major problem.
Post edited October 27, 2013 by Jonesy89
Posted October 27, 2013
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pi4t: Again, you don't need to consider this on a character going into mage, as they'll want to be unarmoured anyway.
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Jonesy89: True; I only mentioned that to the extent someone was thinking about not dualing into mage, or if they were thinking of carrying armor to slap on after they had exhausted their spellcasting for the day. There is always the possibility that a thief/mage will have a low Dex to the point that it inflicts penalties on their skills, but it would have to obscenely low for that to start being a major problem.
Not really, at least for a dual classed one: they'd have to have a dex of at least 15 when they dual classed!

Point taken, though, and I would recommend to the OP that if he does decide to dual class, he should probably check some progression charts (like [url=http://playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur%27s_Gate:_Progression_Charts]these ones[/url], and be prepared to consider carefully when he wants to do it, and use google.to check his decision on when to do that is good. Since it's best to do so before you start playing, you may find it harder to judge.
Posted October 27, 2013
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Jonesy89: True; I only mentioned that to the extent someone was thinking about not dualing into mage, or if they were thinking of carrying armor to slap on after they had exhausted their spellcasting for the day. There is always the possibility that a thief/mage will have a low Dex to the point that it inflicts penalties on their skills, but it would have to obscenely low for that to start being a major problem.
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pi4t: Not really, at least for a dual classed one: they'd have to have a dex of at least 15 when they dual classed!

Point taken, though, and I would recommend to the OP that if he does decide to dual class, he should probably check some progression charts (like [url=http://playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur%27s_Gate:_Progression_Charts]these ones[/url], and be prepared to consider carefully when he wants to do it, and use google.to check his decision on when to do that is good. Since it's best to do so before you start playing, you may find it harder to judge.
Indeed. I would link to the entire Purple Worm rule set, but it's not exactly the best source, as BG deviates from the core rules in numerous ways; I've included tables from there only to the extent that they match up with whatever system the game is running under.
Posted October 27, 2013
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Hickory: Yes, this is the crux: Find Traps is absolutely essential (I always aim for 100% to minimise potentially lethal 'mistakes') because ONLY a thief can disable them. The other skills depend on your own personal game style.
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Jonesy89: Given that wearing any kind of armor imposes a penalty on your Thief skills, it is actually worth considering sinking more than 100% into a particular skill unless they are going completely unarmored. Granted, and [url=http://www.purpleworm.org/rules/PHB/DD01503.htm]Dexterity adjustments might cancel that out, so it really depends on the character involved.
So the Shadow Armor basically removes the penalty. Did not know that.
Posted October 27, 2013
Between this thread and the BG Manuel I've learned a great deal. Thank you to everyone who has posted.

I created a lawful good human fighter. He has a strength of 15, dexterity of 15, constitution of 17, Intelligence 8 or 9 (I can't recall), wisdom of 8 or 9 (I can't recall), and a charisma of 14.

I put 2 points into short sword, 1 point into long sword, and one point into bow.

I have a party of 6 and I'm currently headed to Bergost. There are still some things I'm not clear on.

I understand that a character can only memorize so many spells at a time. How do I learn new spells?
I have looted several spell scrolls. Are these one use items or can my characters use them to learn new spells?
Also, is there a way to increase the number of times I can use a spell besides putting it in multiple slots?

Although, my current party is balanced in my opinion, I'm beginning to see the problems of having two evil characters in a party with 3 good characters. Are there any recruitable NPCs in Bergost? Is there a way to minimize discontent in my party?

There is also a stat that I'm not clear on. What role does the thaco (sp?) stat play?

Thank you again for all your help.


EDIT: There is one other thing. I haven't been able to pick any locks using Imoen or the evil fighter/thief in my party. Are there any items that increase lock picking skill or can this only be improved upon when I level up?
Post edited October 27, 2013 by auroraparadox
Posted October 27, 2013
Mages learn from scrolls. When you right click on them you will be given the option of writing the scroll into the mage book. Better scrolls should be kept until you have a potion of genius. Drink it because not all scrolls will successfully write in mage book and potion of genius will increase the success of copying the spells.

Clerics are "granted" spells by their gods and will show up automatically in the holy book.

Potions can increase thief skills--- and can be found in places like Baldur's Gate thief guild.
Posted October 27, 2013
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auroraparadox: Between this thread and the BG Manuel I've learned a great deal. Thank you to everyone who has posted.

I created a lawful good human fighter. He has a strength of 15, dexterity of 15, constitution of 17, Intelligence 8 or 9 (I can't recall), wisdom of 8 or 9 (I can't recall), and a charisma of 14.

I put 2 points into short sword, 1 point into long sword, and one point into bow.

I have a party of 6 and I'm currently headed to Bergost. There are still some things I'm not clear on.

I understand that a character can only memorize so many spells at a time. How do I learn new spells?
I have looted several spell scrolls. Are these one use items or can my characters use them to learn new spells?
Also, is there a way to increase the number of times I can use a spell besides putting it in multiple slots?

Although, my current party is balanced in my opinion, I'm beginning to see the problems of having two evil characters in a party with 3 good characters. Are there any recruitable NPCs in Bergost? Is there a way to minimize discontent in my party?

There is also a stat that I'm not clear on. What role does the thaco (sp?) stat play?

Thank you again for all your help.

EDIT: There is one other thing. I haven't been able to pick any locks using Imoen or the evil fighter/thief in my party. Are there any items that increase lock picking skill or can this only be improved upon when I level up?
Fighters get no spells. IF you are referring to your companions, then that's another story. *takes deep breath*

Each arcane caster (mage) has a spell book that they scribe spells into. The number of spells that can be scribed into a spellbook are determined by that character's Intelligence; intelligence also affects what level of spells you can learn (only a mage with 18 Intelligence can learn a level 9 spell, for instance). General mages can learn and cast spells of any school, but only learn spells by attempting to write magic scrolls into their spell book (in D&D, failure just means you have to wait until you gain another experience level; in BG, the scroll disappears regardless of whether you learn the spell or not). Specialty mages are mages that specialize in certain school of magic and receive various benefits (+1 on saves against spells of that school and -1 on all enemy saves against spells of that school cast by you, an extra spell slot per spell level, and the ability to spontaneously learn a spell whenever they gain a new spell level, +15% chance to scribe a spell from their school) and various detriments (-15% chance to learning spells from other schools, there are different stat requirements and race limits for specializing in each school, you are unable to cast from an opposing school).

Divine casters (clerics, druids, and to a lesser degree Paladins and Rangers), don't have to worry about learning or scribing spells; instead, their deity makes all spells available to them (well, only the ones that the caster is capable of using at their given level; a level 1 cleric only has access to level 1 spells). Divine casters with high Wisdom also get bonus spell slots, something that arcane casters do NOT get. To balance this out, divine spells are more aimed at helping out the party in ways other than dealing damage, making them far less destructive.

Now, divine or arcane, each caster has "spell slots"; think of these as the number of spells your character's mind can hold given their experience level. A caster in D&D/BG operates on what is called the "Vancian" method of spellcasting. Without going too far into the weeds, think of a spellcaster in D&D as a walking gun; they "load" their mind with a limited number of spells (either by studying their spell book during the night or praying to their deity in the morning), and they "fire" them through spellcasting, which expels the memorized spell from the mind. In order to reload, you need to sleep. In order to select what spells to prepare, simply look at your spell list, click on any empty spell slots to select a spell to fill it with when you next sleep, or select any occupied slot to free it up and click on it again to assign a new spell to it (WARNING: doing this with slots with icons that are NOT grayed out will expel that spell from your mind, effectively wasting it; only do this if you are ready to sleep in an area in which you will not be ambushed). Since each caster is akin to a gun, and each spell akin to a bullet, you can cast multiple instances of a spell only by committing it to more than one slot; if you want to throw 3 magic missiles in a day, you need to prepare 3 slots filled with magic missile.

Recruitable PCs are in Beregost, namely Minsc (and Boo). There is Edwin, but he's Evil aligned and is far more bother than he is worth for a number of other reasons.

As I mentioned earlier, THAC0 means To Hit Armor Class 0; in other words, if someone has an Armor class of 0, this is what you need to "roll" on a 20-sided die in order to hit them. Since to-hit rolls are done automatically, you don't need to worry about this too much beyond knowing that THAC0 and AC need to go as low as possible by equipping various items (WARNING: the game has a bizarre house rule that forbids a character from wearing more than magic 1 AC bonus-granting option at a time) and casting spells/ingesting potions (the latter being for a more limited duration).

Sorry about the wall of text, but trying to give a concise description of D&D rules is a challenge, regardless of edition.
Post edited October 27, 2013 by Jonesy89
Posted October 27, 2013
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auroraparadox: I understand that a character can only memorize so many spells at a time. How do I learn new spells?
Clerics and druids don't have to; they automatically know all the priest spells they are capable of casting. Wizards and bards learn spells from scrolls - go to the character's inventory screen, right-click on the scroll and you'll see a "write magic" button (remember that specialist wizards cannot learn spells of the school(s) opposed to their own school). The chance of success depends on the character's Intelligence (though if you like you can save beforehand and, if you fail, reload and try again until you succeed). Note that this consumes the scroll, whether you succeed or not.

Other characters cannot cast spells. Well, except rangers, but only when they reach level 8 (the highest they can reach in BG1), and even then they get only one 1st-level spell slot per day. (Paladins get their first spell slot at level 9, but they can't reach that level in BG1.)
I have looted several spell scrolls. Are these one use items or can my characters use them to learn new spells?
You can use a scroll only once. You can either use it to cast its spell, or (if it's a wizard spell) attempt to learn the spell. Either way, the scroll is consumed.
Also, is there a way to increase the number of times I can use a spell besides putting it in multiple slots?
No. Well, you can use a scroll of that spell or some other item that produces the same effect, but I don't think that's what you meant.
Although, my current party is balanced in my opinion, I'm beginning to see the problems of having two evil characters in a party with 3 good characters. Are there any recruitable NPCs in Bergost?
Yes, two, but neither is good-aligned; one is neutral, the other evil. Once you get to Nashkel you'll meet one of the most popular NPCs, who is good. (WARNING: mild SPOILERS in the rest of this paragraph.) When he joins, he asks you to help him rescue someone (another decent good-aligned NPC you can recruit); do so quickly or he'll get angry. You also meet an evil NPC in the same town who wants to kill the person whom the other wants to rescue! There are also good-aligned NPCs to be found in the High Hedge area (west of Beregost) and in the area north of the Friendly Arm. Be careful in the latter, as there are some enemies there that are probably much too strong for you at the moment.
Is there a way to minimize discontent in my party?
Actually I'm not sure - it's been a years since I kept such opposed characters together in a party long enough for a fight to break out. I think the chance of that may be affected by your Charisma, but I couldn't swear to it.
There is also a stat that I'm not clear on. What role does the thaco (sp?) stat play?
Short version: the lower your THAC0, the more likely your attacks are to hit.

Long version: THAC0 comes from the AD&D 2E rules. It stands for "to hit armour class zero". Whether your attacks hit or miss is determined by the roll of a (virtual) 20-sided die (d20). Your THAC0 is the number you need to roll to hit an enemy whose AC is 0 (remember, a lower AC is better). If you subtract your enemy's AC from your THAC0, you'll get the number you need to roll to hit them. So if your THAC0 is 15 then you need to roll at least 13 to hit an enemy with AC 2, or 17 to hit an enemy with AC -2.
Are there any items that increase lock picking skill or can this only be improved upon when I level up?
Potions of Master Thievery temporarily increase pickpocketing and lockpicking by 40 points. Potions of Perception and Potions of Power temporarily increase all thieving skills by 20 points (the latter also improve certain other attributes). But it may not be easy to find such items this early in the game. There may be other items that improve lockpicking but if so I can't remember them at the moment.
Post edited October 27, 2013 by ydobemos
Posted October 27, 2013
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Jonesy89: intelligence also affects what level of spells you can learn (only a mage with 18 Intelligence can learn a level 9 spell, for instance).
True of normal dnd 2e, but by my understanding, that isn't implemented in the game.

Everything else you said, though, is true to the best of my knowledge and for the purposes of BG1. There are a few exceptions in BG2 (such as the spell 'wondrous recall', which lets you regain 2 lower level spells you've already cast), but they're not in a vanilla bg1 install.

I'd be interested to hear how you got the stats you did. Did you not reassign points after you rolled, or did you just not click reroll too often. While your stats are probably better than most NPCs', they're surprisingly low for a player made character. In particular, that 15 strength may hurt you on a fighter. In general, any stat within the range 8-15 is quite similar: other than carrying capacity and bashing open locks, you'd have had exactly the same bonus ((ie none) had you taken a strength 8 fighter! Not that I'd recommend that, either, as you can still increase your strength. If you make another warrior type character at some point, I'd highly recommend getting strength to 18, as that'll give you an exceptional strength bonus (the game will write your strength as 18/xx, where xx is a random number between 01 and (1)00. That'll give you a bonus over the standard 18 strength of between +1 damage and +3 thac0, +4 damage, depending on how good the xx is. What's more, if you get to 19 strength (there's one item in bg1 which can permanently increase someone's strength by 1), your modifier's will be above even the maximum 18 strength bonus. To clarify, this is part of a table I copied from the internet. The first column is your strength, the second your thac0 adjustment, and the third your damage bonus.

15 0 0
16 0 +1
17 +1 +1
18 +1 +2
18/01-50 +1 +3
18/51-75 +2 +3
18/76-90 +2 +4
18/91-99 +2 +5
18/00 +3 +6
19 +3 +7

The other stats don't have the 18/xx system, but it's still useful to get them as high above 15 as you can. Don't get me wrong, you should be able to adventure using that and high stats aren't a necessary requirement, but you might have made things harder for yourself.

Thac0 stands for 'to hit armour class 0', and is the number you have to equal(?) or exceed on a d20 (20 sided dice) to hit an enemy of AC 0. Lower is better. If the enemy has an AC of 1, then you have to equal or exceed 1 less than your thac0, while if their AC is -5 you have to equal or exceed 5 more than your thac0. It's a very awkward way of expressing a very simple system. Also, bare in mind that a roll of 1 is always a miss, and a roll of 20 is always a (critical) hit.

Oh, and while someone will no doubt disagree with me on this, I'd say it would be better to put points into just one missile weapon, and one melee weapon, on a fighter. You can only use one at a time, after all, and the more points you have in it the better you'll be attacking. I'd suggest going for large swords at this point, as several classes (eg thieves) can only use small swords in the bladed department, so you'll have to share the loot between you. They also deal less base damage.

Oh, and when choosing what to put points in in your party, try to spread what people use around. From experience, I can say that there are few things as frustrating as getting an amazing spear which no one can use, while you're hunting for yet more large swords.

Regarding your party comments, am I to take it that you have Imoen, Khalid, Jaheira, Xzar and Montaron as your party? Yeah, I think that Xzar/Monty and Khalid/Jaheira will be at each others' throats sooner or later. You've got some time, though: plenty to get to Nashkel, anyway, and you can get some NPCs better suited to you there. As others have suggested, I'd recommend Minsc, for humour and because he's a great NPC. The slight downside is you'll then be locked into choosing Dynaheir as your final NPC, and she's fine and a mage, which (if I've surmised correctly about your party) you don't currently have. You won't be able to pick her up immediately, though, as you need to go on a subquest to help Minsc get her back first, so feel free to pick up another NPC in the meantime. SPOILERS: At the carnival, there's a statue of a woman, with a person near it trying to sell you a hideously overpriced stone to flesh scroll. Don't buy from him, buy one from the Nashkel temple or (if you don't have the money and/or don't mind the slightly cheap 'reload until it works' strategy) pickpocket him with Imoen for it until you succeed and he doesn't attack you. Use the scroll on the statue and she'll turn out to be a quite powerful good aligned cleric.

There's also a mage you can get at the end of the Nashkel main quest activity, but I wouldn't recommend him for a first run. He takes quite a bit of effort to work correctly.

By the way, there's another benefit to using the Minsc/Dynaheir/Jaheira/Khalid/Imoen party: it's the 'canon' party, that is the party which the plot of BG2 involves the PC having completed BG1 with.
Post edited October 27, 2013 by pi4t
Posted October 27, 2013
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Jonesy89: ...intelligence also affects what level of spells you can learn (only a mage with 18 Intelligence can learn a level 9 spell, for instance).
That's true in the P&P rules but, as I said earlier, I'm pretty certain that requirement isn't implemented in the BG games.
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Jonesy89: Recruitable PCs are in Beregost, namely Minsc (and Boo). There is Edwin, but he's Evil aligned and is far more bother than he is worth for a number of other reasons.
They're in Nashkel, not Beregost. In Beregost you can recruit Garrick (chaotic neutral) and Kagain (lawful evil).
Post edited October 27, 2013 by ydobemos
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Baldur's Gate seriesBG 1: Tips for a new player(103 posts)(103 posts)
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