It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
Some may consider this a hate post and downrate, but I need to vent. Short version: fuck this game. Long version...

I began playing the Baldur's Gate series last Autumn. I didn't think much of BG1; it was okay, but nothing special imo. The main reason I played it, was to prepare myself for BG2 anyway, so that I would understand the plot and carry my character over from that game. Now, BG2 (the base game, Shadows of Amn) was really good and improved many aspects of the first BG. Had a lot of fun with it. But now, after I've almost played ToB through, all which was great about Shadows of Amn, has been flushed down the toilet. Throne of Bhaal might be the most frustrating piece of shit I have EVER played. Ever. I find not a single redeeming thing about this garbage they call "entertainment". Where should I begin....

I guess it started around the time I was going after Yaga-Shura. The game introduced spawning mobs around then. Outside the temple, Fire Giants would appear out of nowhere and sneak up behind my four mages. And one-hit KO them into oblivion. Well, fine, I managed to get past all of them and into the temple. Next thing....around seven or eight Fire Giants waiting for me, right at the doorstep. They would've killed me without almost any effort, if I didn't concentrate on one at a time, wait till it's dead, then blaze through the door back outside to heal. Maybe summon some help inside if I had the opportunity.

Next, the goddamn Dragons (Draconicus and his ugly father). Their humanoid forms were simple enough, but the dragon forms....gaaaaah. Of course, I couldn't save between fights. The dragons would immediately blow everyone away and attack them (plus usually kill) while they're down. Talk about fair. And answer me this: how does a dragon who's as tall as a building, make itself fucking invisible to sneak attack my group? Bullshit AI programming, that's how. I don't think I would've ever beaten the Bhaalspawn dragon, had I not used the pocket plane ability once his human form was defeated, rest, and return.

Then, infinite mobs in the slave caverns when I went against Sendai. At first I just stood in the cavern entrance, killing what must have been a near hundred slaves. They just kept coming and coming, appearing out of nowhere. It was good xp grinding sure, but didn't get me anywhere. So I reloaded, and just beelined toward the other end. It was fucking tedious still. Next, they introduced the same bullshit mechanic when I was going against Balthazar. The monks and mercenaries would've never ended outside, if I had kept fighting. Where do they find these guys?? What surprised me, was that Balthazar himself was a pushover compared to everyone else so far. So, the game difficulty is inconsistent too.

Ravager (back in the abyssal fortress) was again really hard. The reason being that he seemed to be immune to pretty much everything. Sarevok, with his two-handed sword, was the only one in the group that could damage him even a little. Not even Minsc, with two different maces and the Blackrazor sword, couldn't scratch him. And spells? Hahah, you wish. Everything was blocked by Magic Resistance. Well, with patience and a huge amount of healing potions, he went down too eventually.

But now, Melissan. A fucking mortal bitch who somehow tricked every Bhaalspawn, and managed to consume enough Bhaal essence to become, essentially, a goddess. And now I'm supposed to beat her. Four times (I checked!). While she's spawning countless amounts of powerful minions. While using Time Stop too, not just while battling. While being immune to pretty much anything (or, has an AC so high [or should I say low?] that maybe once every five hits either Sarevok or Minsc hit her. The four mages are next to useless in this fight. Why? Because I can't rest between the four fights. If I use any of my more powerful spells, they won't be available later, when she's probably even stronger.

I got her down once, but it's hopeless now and it's still the 2nd stage of the fight. First he blows everyone a mile away, summons at least four different minions, and becomes impossible to kill. The reason being no-one ever hits her (missile weapons are useless, btw). The cunt is hard enough as it is, so why does she have to spawn minions too? More importantly, who the hell in the developing team thought this would be fun??? This couldn't be further away from fun, this is work. I'm pulling my hair out because I'm so close to end, but the fucking Melissan is impossible to beat (with my party and their experience, at least).

It pains me to even consider this, since I'm so close to ending the game and I've put countless of hours into the series. But still, I'm thinking of just abandoning the game, doing an uninstall and never looking back. Again, Shadows of Amn was a fun game. It's too bad that Throne of Bhaal completely ripped all my good memories of the game and demolished them. I. Hate. This. Game.

Also, whoever came up with the spell Contingency: I hope you die. What a bullshit, coward spell. Time Stop is pretty fucking annoying too. Thanks for reading.
The end fight against Melissan, or the rest of ToB, really isn't that hard, you know. I mean, there is a whole mod called Ascension dedicated to making that fight and the other Bhaalspawn fights harder.

Of course, if you're using 4 wizards but don't know how to use them... If you're just spamming direct damage spells with your wizards, you're using them wrong, btw.
Hint: the spell wish, which you can cast to refill all your spells if you have good wisdom, is your friend.
Also, for magic resistance, you do know there are spells to lower that, right?


There are lots of people who have beaten that fight without much of a problem, so if you can't it's basically your fault, not the game's.
That being said, I agree that ToB is too boss-fight oriented for my tastes, and was a bit of a letdown after SoA, except for Watcher's Keep.
Post edited January 28, 2013 by mystral
avatar
mystral: The end fight against Melissan, or the rest of ToB, really isn't that hard, you know. I mean, there is a whole mod called Ascension dedicated to making that fight and the other Bhaalspawn fights harder.

Of course, if you're using 4 wizards but don't know how to use them... If you're just spamming direct damage spells with your wizards, you're using them wrong, btw.
Hint: the spell wish, which you can cast to refill all your spells if you have good wisdom, is your friend.
Also, for magic resistance, you do know there are spells to lower that, right?

There are lots of people who have beaten that fight without much of a problem, so if you can't it's basically your fault, not the game's.
That being said, I agree that ToB is too boss-fight oriented for my tastes, and was a bit of a letdown after SoA, except for Watcher's Keep.
Actually, I was thinking that I'd roll back a little and visit the shopkeeper, who hopefully has at least a couple of Wish spells in his inventory. Maybe it will make the fight(s) a little bit more tolerable.

And, I wasn't spamming her with offensive spells, mind you, but rather remove all her spell protections so that she would at least not be immune to melee weapons. But since my guys can hit her so rarely, it's really frustrating. Well... guess I'll try the Wish route, at least then I wouldn't have to spare my spells that I'd surely need later (which is why I'm still on the 2nd stage of battle...I have to ration the spells)
avatar
DProject: Actually, I was thinking that I'd roll back a little and visit the shopkeeper, who hopefully has at least a couple of Wish spells in his inventory. Maybe it will make the fight(s) a little bit more tolerable.

And, I wasn't spamming her with offensive spells, mind you, but rather remove all her spell protections so that she would at least not be immune to melee weapons. But since my guys can hit her so rarely, it's really frustrating. Well... guess I'll try the Wish route, at least then I wouldn't have to spare my spells that I'd surely need later (which is why I'm still on the 2nd stage of battle...I have to ration the spells)
Well if you need more strategies for that fight, you can look up this page
Well, got her down to Badly injured status (still 2nd stage) after I went to do a little shopping. I might be still rationing spells a little too much though I'm packing, but it's getting better. I'll still say the battle is annoying as hell simply because Minsc and Sarevok can't hit her as often as I would like, but at least things don't look hopeless anymore. Viconia is pretty useless in this fight (only good for healing afterwards), so that's a minus one. That, or I don't know how to use her here properly.

Can't wait till this whole thing is over.
avatar
DProject: Well, got her down to Badly injured status (still 2nd stage) after I went to do a little shopping. I might be still rationing spells a little too much though I'm packing, but it's getting better. I'll still say the battle is annoying as hell simply because Minsc and Sarevok can't hit her as often as I would like, but at least things don't look hopeless anymore. Viconia is pretty useless in this fight (only good for healing afterwards), so that's a minus one. That, or I don't know how to use her here properly.

Can't wait till this whole thing is over.
Clerics aren't very powerful in BG 2, since they have very few good spells. The good thing about Viconia is her magic resistance, so I usually use her as a tank in mage fights, after boosting her constitution with the belt.
She can still cast a few heal spells, use the rod of resurrection and other consumables, and keep some adds off your fighters' backs. Since clerics have pretty high levels, she can also be on dispelling duty.
She can also be used to summon a fallen celestial (or whatever her HLA summon is called).
Oh, and make sure she casts doom on Melissan.

Are you using strength or speed potions on your fighters? Those should last through the fight so you don't need to save them. Are you using HLAs?
Don't know what HLAs are. I don't use strength potions since all my guys have Giant belts, which boost their strength enough. Speed potions neither, because I use the Haste spell beforehand. I did remember packing heroism potions though, might try them. Anyway, I must continue later 'cause now I'm off to watch a flick. We'll see if I'll have the time (and patience) to finish this today.
High level abilities. The options you choose when your characters level beyond level 18 (mostly all classes, some differ a bit)

These are pretty essential, especially whirlwind for fighters and level 10 spells for mages.
Got through the 2nd stage. Minsc and Sarevok dealed damage, and when the other one got hurt, he would go get healing, then return. Used more Breach this time, I guess it might have helped? I don't know, these battles seem so randomized. Every once in a while I succeed at them with flying colors, other times it's a complete disaster from the get-go. Like for instance, when I tried the 3rd stage for the first time, I already got Melissan to Near Death status before my party got crippled too much. Other times, I've gotten to Badly wounded a couple of times but plain Injured too most often. Though I used the same tactics each time: Two air elementals, one earth elemental, one fire elemental and efreeti (which sucks btw, only makes the elementals turn hostile and that's it): Minsc and Sarevok go right at her, Imoen casts Breach, my main character casts Spell resistance removal (forgot what it's actually called), Aerie casts Ruby ray of reversal, and Viconia...well since she's got nothing better to do, casts Dispel magic just in case. Sometimes this initial setup works wonders and Melissan almost gets killed during the first 30 seconds (like the first time I tried, like I explained), other times not so much. Meh.

Well, from what I've read, at least this stage seems to be the hardest. I read somewhere that in 4th stage Melissan would be more melee-oriented and therefor easier. We'll see. And if I already got her to Near Death once, maybe she'll fall eventually. Plus I still got my Wish spell left, therefor I might be able to pseudo-rest before the final stage.
avatar
Gromuhl: High level abilities. The options you choose when your characters level beyond level 18 (mostly all classes, some differ a bit)

These are pretty essential, especially whirlwind for fighters and level 10 spells for mages.
Oh, right! Embarrassed to say I completely forgot these. I know I have Hardiness at least, gotta try those the next time I decide to try my luck with the battle. I am using the 10 lvl spells however, such as Comet.
Post edited January 28, 2013 by DProject
Pro-tip: use Rods of Resurrection instead of healing potions. They've only got 10 charges and there's a slight delay for the animation, but they heal you COMPLETELY when you use them, and they can be used on any character, not just the person who has them equipped. They are a complete lifesaver in fights like these where regular healing simply can't keep up.

Also, remember that you can stack magic resistance debuffs. Pierce Magic and Pierce Shield can be useful since they dispel her spell protections AND lower her resistance, and all three of the MR-reducing spells are cumulative with themselves and with each other.

Hardiness is wonderful for Melissan because she does a lot of physical damage (though her melee strikes do ice damage too). Critical Strike (and Smite) are also good since they'll guarantee your hits. But the best fighter HLA is Greater Whirlwind for sure. Use it as often as you think is prudent.

For Wish, don't just bring a Wish scroll, make sure to actually memorize Wish. That way, you can save after each phase to make sure you get the "rest and re-memorize" option, which restores the original Wish casting as well (along with all of your class abilities, including HLAs, traps, heals, etc). This allows you to use all your spells and abilities for each phase (though you'll have to keep an eye on charges for the Rods). Melissan heals up and restores herself after every phase, so it's only fair that you do it too. If you have Jan or a PC thief, make sure to trap the area where Melissan spawns after each phase before you clean out the side areas.

Also, contingencies and triggers are very powerful and can be used in your favor as well. Load up a Chain Contingency with three nasty spells you want to use at the start of the fight, set it to "nearest enemy" and "enemy sighted" and blast away. Load up a Spell Trigger with Breach/Pierce Magic/Remove Magic and use it when somebody else's contingency full of spell protections triggers. There's no real reason to use Ruby Ray on Melissan because she doesn't cast Spell Trap, so you may be better off with something else.
A cheesy way for handling Melissan when your main character has access to mage spells is casting protection from magical weapons. You'll be immune to her attacks.
Have you got a thief/ bard? You know where she will arrive so place two 'Spike Trap's and have a nice day.
Yes yes yes, got through the 3rd battle! And everyone even survived! Just one more time, and it's over, aaaaahhh

One thing I noticed yesterday, is that I'm an idiot. I always started with the same setup, which included one crucial thing: Viconia casting Dispel Magic. ...not a great move. Apparently it dispels spells, friends and foes alike. I always thought it was Melissan who immediately removed Minsc's and Sarevok's Haste, but it was that goddamn drow all along. Naturally, I stopped doing that and instead gave Viconia the Shakti Figurine (when used, gives the user an AC bonus of -5, Haste, and two magical shortswords which I think were +4), then made her attack directly too. Don't know if she actually hit anything while the figurine was active, but at least that way she didn't hinder the party. Once the figurine effect wore off, I made her heal with the resurrection rod (didn't know it could do that, I always thought it was for resurrecting only - that was a great tip, bevinator: thanks!) Bigsby's (or whatever they were called) Fists effectively stunned Melissan after I had used the Remove Magic Resistance spell a few times, Horrid Wilting did great damage, Imoen effectively Breached every now and again, and therefor Minsc and Sarevok were effectively hitting her.

I guess I'll try the final stage right after I've cooled my nerves a little :) I think I need to readjust my spells and of course get lucky with the Wish spell (so that it offers the rest option) before I can activate the last battle though.
And it is now done. Melissan went down like a little bitch; in fact the last stage of the battle was probably the easiest of them all. This was made easier by the fact that she only summoned two Glabrezu in the beginning as opposed to the army of Shadow Slayers in the third stage. I had, of course, summoned my own minions - one planetar and four skeleton warriors: they kept Melissan busy while Minsc and Sarevok slashed free shots on her back. My party was also buffed like crazy: you couldn't even make out their portraits, haha! Haste, Improved Haste, Magic Resistance, Free Action, Bless, Chaotic Commands...you name it. During the battle I cast Doom, Miscast Magic, Breach, Remove Magic Resistance and Horrid Wilting but other than that I could mostly just sit back and watch the slaughter.

And then I became a god.

It was actually very funny seeing Sarevok and Viconia jizz their pants seeing the opportunity of me taking all the essence. Now, at this point I will admit the battles might have been easier had I been better prepared, so perhaps the game itself wasn't to be completely blamed, as mystral said. However, I will still say the (rest of the) game wasn't particularly entertaining for me. I'm glad it's over now: never will I look back again. It was still a very satisfying moment to see Melissan fall, so let's leave it that.

Thanks everyone for your tips, I think without them, I'd still be pulling my hair out trying to figure out how to beat the last boss. This is one of the reasons I love this community - help is sure to be available when needed. You guys are great :)
If your party has many wizards, please see here http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/ArcaneSpells.htm . You can make useful combinations that will cripple most opponents. Also, if you find the difficulty of second game and its expansion impossible, you can always take advantage of an infinite xp glitch; baldur's gate 2 has many! ToB is indeed difficult and my maxed out main character from BG2, from the beginning of ToB, was unstoppable.

If one of those wizards happens to be your main player, or a player you created yourself and use in multi, you can wreak havoc by utilizing certain tricks. Fill your 8th level spell slots with Simulacrum. 2 out of 4 level 9 spell slots, put Planetar. Now use Simulacrum once, and upon each new clone, first use on them the Planetar's Lesser Restoration, then proceed by having them use Simulacrum, until you have 4 exact, whole copies of yourself! Then, let each one of them summon Planetar, and you can beat ANYTHING in milliseconds! If you hate hard exploits though, you can use simple summons instead of planetars, like those Level 6 ones.

Learning to use Triggers, Contigencies and Sequencers will help you defend more than adequately and damage even more aggressively. And since you are using 4 wizards, you should at least get to know how spells work, even if you had only one.
Post edited August 08, 2013 by KiNgBrAdLeY7