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I wanted to love this so badly but I don't get it.

As someone with no familiarity with D&D, the rules and mechanics are poorly explained. From the very character creation screen you're given little about things like spell slots, sneaking, and other important mechanics related to the classes. This makes it tough to build a good character.

Once you start the game, you get *some* degree of explanation as to the turn based system and the dice rolls, but not much. There's a steep learning curve, which normally I would be willing to forgive if the rest of the game is good. But it's not. Some of the mechanics are also annoying, mainly spell slots to me. I start with a grand total of three. So I get to cast a spell three times (!) between Long Rests, which advance time and can't be done at whim. Get into two fights in a row, or a situation where you need a spell? Hope you didn't burn your spell slots! The time mechanic I mentioned is another annoying thing. It's very easy to get locked out of content because time advanced and you failed a quest, another thing the game is bad at explaining.Because this type of game is all about the story and writing.

Other party-based RPGs I've played have been all about wanting to learn more about the world, the story, the stories of the people you travel and fight with. Even if the main story is weak, an RPG can compensate with a well-crafted world and good characters. This has neither. If you don't choose one of the pre-made characters (which robs you of that character as a companion), then you get pretty much no backstory for your character other than a single sentence about having been a noble or a soldier in a past life. As for the pre-made characters who you can recruit, none of them are very compelling to me, although I have yet to get to know them too well. They range from hateful (the gith) to edgy (vampire elf and half-elf cleric) to dull (wizard).

The lore of the world isn't expanded enough either, another issue for those not familiar with D&D. Illithid play a major role. What are they exactly? Who are the gods? What's the lore difference between all these races? What's the history of this world? We get little to nothing on any of this.

On the subject of story: the dice mechanic has many of the same problems Disco Elysium had, in that a bad roll can lock you out of content with a failure. To me it's bad design to prevent a player from accessing content purely because of bad luck. In an actual tabletop game, the GM and players can find ways to get around bad rolls, a player can think of a new approach and the GM can tailor the story around a particular failure. The limits of this being a video game means that a failure is just that: you failed, you don't get that bit of the story. Guess you'll have to sink time into another playthrough to see that.

And finally, the third act of the game is unfinished. Despite having been in early access for years, they rushed the ending from many reports: glitches abound and there's a good deal of cut content. The ending has been described as "Mass Effect 3 pre-patch" levels of bad. I can't speak to the third act personally as I have yet to reach it, but this is what many reviews hold.

I hope you read this. I simply don't get the praise for this game. I loved Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Divinity, and other party-based RPGs. I don't get the love for this.
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mobius567: Some of the mechanics are also annoying, mainly spell slots to me. I start with a grand total of three. So I get to cast a spell three times (!) between Long Rests, which advance time and can't be done at whim.
While technically sleeping advances time, there are actually very few situations where a long rest actually impacts any of the storylines. It may be poor roleplaying (or maybe not.. if I almost get my ass beat killing a pack of Gnolls, I'd probably call it a day), but I pretty frequently long rest after every fight. This is (fortunately, IMO) not one of those games where if you wait too long, quests expire. The only exceptions are a few cases where you'll complete a major portion of the game, and a long-rest will trigger some of the quest-related NPCs to effectively move on to the next act.

There are also rest-related events that happen that, as far as I can tell, are more or less independent of the main storyline. It might be that they're related to discovering a certain area or advancing a quest to a certain point. If you don't long rest enough, you run the risk of missing some of this content.

So based on my playing experience, it's better to long rest too much than not enough. My only beef with it is that it takes a long time - you've gotta re-zone into your camp, play that stupid food minigame, talk to anyone who needs to talk to you, watch that stupid sleeping cutsene, then re-zone back to the game. I get why they did it (there's a chance at any rest that you won't sleep peacefully), but I quite like the D:OS bedroll mechanic, where you just click the thing and you're instantly rested and you keep going... much like a short rest. But that's just me.

I will agree that the whole spell slot thing confused the hell out of me, too, since so many games use spell costs and a mana pool. This is a mechanic that makes tabletop quite a bit easier to play and enforces some balance... but I agree that's very different from many video games you'll play.

You're right about the learning curve. The character creation system itself became quite a bit less intuitive in the full release as well, IMO. Fortunately, the ruleset is pretty forgiving, so you can make any race function well as any class. Once you encounter Withers, you can also re-class yourself for a small fee (I think like 100g... it might go up with subsequent reclasses, I don't remember). That's a lot early in the game, but midway through you won't think twice about 100g.

Finally, casters really kinda suck at early levels. Like, REALLY suck. They're squishy, you don't have gear to compensate for their squishiness, their cantrips barely do any damage, and their spells are barely better than their cantrips. Late game, however, they're pretty powerful... you just have to put in the time to get there.
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mobius567: Other party-based RPGs I've played have been all about wanting to learn more about the world, the story, the stories of the people you travel and fight with. Even if the main story is weak, an RPG can compensate with a well-crafted world and good characters. This has neither. If you don't choose one of the pre-made characters (which robs you of that character as a companion), then you get pretty much no backstory for your character other than a single sentence about having been a noble or a soldier in a past life. As for the pre-made characters who you can recruit, none of them are very compelling to me, although I have yet to get to know them too well. They range from hateful (the gith) to edgy (vampire elf and half-elf cleric) to dull (wizard).
There is a ton you can discover about the world. Like in many other games, you discover books throughout that usually serve very little purpose other than to explain the world and the backstory. You just need to spend some time exploring bookshelves to find them.

This game (and D&D in general) is all about telling a story. If you're creating your own character, it's up to you to make up their backstory. Many people would feel it quite limiting to have a backstory thrust upon them (like in D:OS or DA:O). You pick noble as their trait, but you need to decide are they a greedy, selfish mercenary type? A benevolent, generous benefactor who wants to better the world? Some mix in between... you're creating the character, so it's on you to create their backstory and play them according to the backstory you created.

As for the characters, they're **WAY** more complex than they first appear. You just need to play long enough to develop their story.
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mobius567: The lore of the world isn't expanded enough either, another issue for those not familiar with D&D. Illithid play a major role. What are they exactly? Who are the gods? What's the lore difference between all these races? What's the history of this world? We get little to nothing on any of this.
I don't come from a D&D background either. You pretty quickly get the sens that illithids are bad news, but not much else right away. The game does do a pretty good job explaining where they come from, what their mechanics are, what their culture (if you want to call it that) is, etc. Again, it's part of the story that unfolds as you play.
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mobius567: On the subject of story: the dice mechanic has many of the same problems Disco Elysium had, in that a bad roll can lock you out of content with a failure. To me it's bad design to prevent a player from accessing content purely because of bad luck. In an actual tabletop game, the GM and players can find ways to get around bad rolls, a player can think of a new approach and the GM can tailor the story around a particular failure. The limits of this being a video game means that a failure is just that: you failed, you don't get that bit of the story. Guess you'll have to sink time into another playthrough to see that.
There are very few situations where a single dice roll can block out significant content. If you have karmic dice enabled, this gets even smaller. Add to that the fact that you can hold up to 4 inspiration points at any time, and there are *TONS* of inspiration point opportunities, and you get lots of chances to re-roll some of those critical things.

If you fail a roll and don't reroll, it does take away certain options. There was one point where I was super annoyed at that I couldn't pass a certain roll, but I rerolled that thing 3 times and failed. I just didn't have enough wisdom or whatever the stat was. It happens, that's part of the game. The challenge in the game is finding an alternative way to go when that happens.
The one spot where you might get locked out of content in a playthrough is when two recruited characters don't get along. If you fail a roll there, you may be unable to convince them to make peace, and have to choose one. You can only ever have 4 characters in your party at a time anyway, so you'd spend a lot of time trying to predict who needs to be with you in a given area to get the in-person interactions you want... ultimately, I found there really wasn't a way to experience all the content in a single playthrough regardless of those rolls (on my first playthrough, I passed all of them anyway. I failed one of them on my second...). If you miss out on some content one time, just go after it on a second.
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mobius567: And finally, the third act of the game is unfinished. Despite having been in early access for years, they rushed the ending from many reports: glitches abound and there's a good deal of cut content. The ending has been described as "Mass Effect 3 pre-patch" levels of bad. I can't speak to the third act personally as I have yet to reach it, but this is what many reviews hold.
pretty bold move of you to base your opinion completely on someone else's review of the game. I *have* experienced the end of act 3, and although I would definitely love to have had more areas to explore, I don't get the impression that things were cut or missing, or that the story had holes. I also didn't encounter many bugs. There were a few small things, like a random dialogue that triggered that wasn't related to anything I was doing at the time, but in all my lived experience does not reflect the way you phrase it.
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mobius567: I hope you read this. I simply don't get the praise for this game. I loved Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Divinity, and other party-based RPGs. I don't get the love for this.
Who is 'you' here? Larian? If you want them to read it, go post on the Larian forums.
Literally anyone who gets that message will, by definition, be reading it. What do you expect to achieve by posting this here?

If you don't want to play anymore, that's up to you... but it sounds to me like you didn't really give it a chance before letting someone else make up your mind for you. That's one way to live your life, I guess... but it's not how I'd do it.
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mathaetaes: Who is 'you' here? Larian? If you want them to read it, go post on the Larian forums.
Literally anyone who gets that message will, by definition, be reading it. What do you expect to achieve by posting this here?

If you don't want to play anymore, that's up to you... but it sounds to me like you didn't really give it a chance before letting someone else make up your mind for you. That's one way to live your life, I guess... but it's not how I'd do it.
I meant more that "I hope you read this far", you being the reader, since most people won't read a wall of text from some rando. Sorry if it came off weird.

I didn't base any part of this on anyone else's opinion, other than Act 3. I will admit that I can't judge myself, I've just seen this opinion repeated many times. It's more an addendum to the whole thing.

You make some very good points here. Maybe I do need to sink more time into it, if certain things do really improve. I want to like this game. Thank you for your input.
Post edited September 26, 2023 by mobius567
> I'm sorry but I don't get the love for this

Then go away.
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Geromino: > I'm sorry but I don't get the love for this

Then go away.
Brilliant reply
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Geromino: > I'm sorry but I don't get the love for this

Then go away.
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mobius567: Brilliant reply
Old gamers have seen many times where someone will pop up and tell everyone that the game they like is bad and the company that made it should be shunned for some reason. In the game in question, we've been batting off the anti-"wokeness" brigade, and the anti-furry brigade... probably some others that I don't remember. Your post fits some of the criteria of that sort of post. Don't blame us for being grouchy.
I dont like a lot of things in BG3, like the changes in DnD rules, but the game is amazing. Ive played PC RPGs for a long time, few had this much detail in choice and consequence. Some things that you will do or not do will impact your game hours after, people you save will show up and change the outcome of some quests.
This type of things you dont see in a lot of games that call themselves RPGs, witcher 3 had some cases, like that quest where the monsters hunt you, your actions have meaning this way and you weight every dialogue according to you character aligment, even though Larian took aligment off the table, my paladin is still Lawful Good and my Bard is kind of Chaotic Good.
Give the game a chance, people said that Act 3 is the worse, i heard people saying it was unfinished, im in Act 3 now, second character, havent finished the game yet, and the best quests and consequences are in Act 3 so far, amazing the amount of detail they put in this game.
Post edited September 28, 2023 by JESUS.896
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JESUS.896: I dont like a lot of things in BG3, like the changes in DnD rules, but the game is amazing. Ive played PC RPGs for a long time, few had this much detail in choice and consequence. Some things that you will do or not do will impact your game hours after, people you save will show up and change the outcome of some quests.
This type of things you dont see in a lot of games that call themselves RPGs, witcher 3 had some cases, like that quest where the monsters hunt you, your actions have meaning this way and you weight every dialogue according to you character aligment, even though Larian took aligment off the table, my paladin is still Lawful Good and my Bard is kind of Chaotic Good.
Give the game a chance, people said that Act 3 is the worse, i heard people saying it was unfinished, im in Act 3 now, second character, havent finished the game yet, and the best quests and consequences are in Act 3 so far, amazing the amount of detail they put in this game.
Yeah... I read in some review where the reviewer said they wished they could see more of Baldur's Gate. I wish the same thing - it's a perfectly valid point, and I'd love to have a bigger world and more content. But being left wanting more is rarely the sign of a bad game, nor does it mean a game is unfinished.

I was left wanting more after playing DA:O and many other great games, but nobody complained that those are unfinished.
Thats my whole point, Act 3 is not unfinished, im still playing it, the city is by far the more complex Act in the game, with more things to do and way better quests. I played Divinity OS 2 and the final part of the game felt unfinished, i never returned to it after i completed the game though, and Larian did add a lot in the final version of the game.
Post edited September 28, 2023 by JESUS.896
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mobius567: Brilliant reply
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alcaray: Old gamers have seen many times where someone will pop up and tell everyone that the game they like is bad and the company that made it should be shunned for some reason. In the game in question, we've been batting off the anti-"wokeness" brigade, and the anti-furry brigade... probably some others that I don't remember. Your post fits some of the criteria of that sort of post. Don't blame us for being grouchy.
Except I said nothing about being "woke" or about furries. I don't care about either of those things?
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JESUS.896: I dont like a lot of things in BG3, like the changes in DnD rules, but the game is amazing. Ive played PC RPGs for a long time, few had this much detail in choice and consequence. Some things that you will do or not do will impact your game hours after, people you save will show up and change the outcome of some quests.
This type of things you dont see in a lot of games that call themselves RPGs, witcher 3 had some cases, like that quest where the monsters hunt you, your actions have meaning this way and you weight every dialogue according to you character aligment, even though Larian took aligment off the table, my paladin is still Lawful Good and my Bard is kind of Chaotic Good.
Give the game a chance, people said that Act 3 is the worse, i heard people saying it was unfinished, im in Act 3 now, second character, havent finished the game yet, and the best quests and consequences are in Act 3 so far, amazing the amount of detail they put in this game.
Maybe I need to give it more time then. My biggest issue is a lack of investment in the world.
Post edited September 28, 2023 by mobius567
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alcaray: Old gamers have seen many times where someone will pop up and tell everyone that the game they like is bad and the company that made it should be shunned for some reason. In the game in question, we've been batting off the anti-"wokeness" brigade, and the anti-furry brigade... probably some others that I don't remember. Your post fits some of the criteria of that sort of post. Don't blame us for being grouchy.
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mobius567: Except I said nothing about being "woke" or about furries. I don't care about either of those things?
I did not say that you did. Us old guys aren't the only grouchy ones, I guess.
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mobius567: Except I said nothing about being "woke" or about furries. I don't care about either of those things?
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alcaray: I did not say that you did. Us old guys aren't the only grouchy ones, I guess.
You literally did. Can you not read your own writing?
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alcaray: I did not say that you did. Us old guys aren't the only grouchy ones, I guess.
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mobius567: You literally did. Can you not read your own writing?
My post was intended as an olive branch and a plea not to judge us harshly because of what we've been dealing with throughout the many years of EA and then release. I "literally" listed some of the things we've dealt with. To that list, now that I think about it, we also dealt with the Larian-can-never-succeed-at-a-Baldur's-Gate-Sequel brigade (which I also do not claim that you belong to).
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Geromino: > I'm sorry but I don't get the love for this

Then go away.
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mobius567: Brilliant reply
This is literally the best roleplaying game in decades and he writes "I dont get the love for this" and then writes a wall of text.

So yes I assumed he's not a roleplayer and is one of the many players who play a game because its popular but its not their kind of game so they try to "fix" it.

Turns out I was wrong, but then I still dont get why he wouldnt get the "love" for this. Its bloody obvious why BG3 is so successful, and in the end its the same reason why BG2 was so successful, if not even more so.