This may sound pretty stupid, but after playing through most of Avernum 1 - I'm pretty sure I'm an hour or two from the end - I've kind of given up on the game. It just gives me a headache having to keep track of all the things I need to do and items I need to find, some of which I may have already found (and had no real idea of knowing were needed later on) but I have no real way of knowing which since there's no useful log or quest tracker available, so I end up having the tedious task of running back and forth the landscape like a headless chicken. Now I'm thinking I should have written some of that stuff down, but by the time that realization came I didn't have the energy to do that anymore. Even then that may not be enough.

I actually skimmed a walkthrough for the game last night, and looking at some of the stuff I still might need to do/get I was just thinking "fuck that!" It is just way too easy to lose track of things in this game, especially as some potentially very important information may only be mentioned once! and never again, i.e. the location of one of the Triad's members hidden mage towers. Not to mention the ridiculously unfair fights against fucking invisible enemies... Ugh!

Anyway, so I pretty much know what happens at the end of the game so I'm not at all bothering with finishing the game anymore. It was fun for the most part until I unfortunately got lost in the tedium.

So, back to the actual topic line: Do you think I should bother with part 2 and 3 then? I started them up real quickly, and as I feared they use the same tracker-less system. Do they actually have some improvements that won't get me as frustrated as I may have been with part 1? Or should I just hop to part 4 with its new(er) and much improved engine? I mean, I really liked the story and characters of the first but its system is just too antiquated for me nowadays. I really don't want to end up sticking it out just to give up prematurely again.

They add a quest tracker in 2, if that helps.

I've been frustrated with little items that you need to have in order to access high level spells that are stored in dungeons... I've actually made a short working list of dungeons that I need to go back to.

Oh, yes, that helps quite a bit actually. I just checked whether I missed it in the first game since it is in a weird spot, but... no. Okay then, I decided to push ahead with part 2 just now with a completely custom party for a change. I hope things will go a little more smoothly now, and I'll make sure to write a few things down as I'm playing. Hopefully this'll alleviate the issues I had with part 1.

Yeah... I did the same thing. When I saw "Current Quests" I thought that I had completely missed it in the first one.

I rather enjoy Avernum 3 over the rest of the games in the series, but to each his/her own. One thing you have to keep in mind is that 1-3 and Blades of Avernum are remakes of the older Exile series, which were released in the early 90's. Hence they have a lot of those super old-school traits carrying over. It's not for everyone, but there are noticeable improvements with each iteration.

Funnily enough Jeff's remade Avernum 1 in the new engine (as Avernum: Escape from the Pit), and is working on the remake of Avernum 2 (which will be Avernum 2: Crystal Souls). I'm assuming Avernum 3's remake will be Avernum 3: Ruined World, if he's going by the same naming convention. You may want to look into those if the old engine and gameplay bother you. The old trilogy's certainly well worth experiencing.

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of the old engine. My first experience with Spiderweb's games was Geneforge 1 and Avernum IV - I knew there was a reason I didn't bother with the earlier games before due to my experience with their demos - so playing these early games is a noticeable step back. So much so that I'm actually contemplating stopping my session of part 2 into which I already poured a good few hours. As said, I love the plot and characters in the games, but it all plays just a little too awkwardly for me. Oh well.

I'm most definitely going to give part 4 a thorough playthrough again though. I actually gave it a quick tryout again this morning, and it is such a huge difference to me. I may eventually get around to actually giving the new Avernum remakes a try.

Oh dear, you are so not prepared ;)


As far as I'm concerned, I'd say 2 and 3 are really worth it even if you think the gameplay is a bit tricky, because the stories are so great. There aren't tha many quests to do at the same time, I think, and for 3, even good old Exile 3 had some basic quest journal. And overall, they're a tiny bit more focused than 1, because most of the time, and quite early on, you'll deal with the main quest(s) instead of being left in some huge world where you're not sure what you're supposed to do.

Avernum 3's a remake of Exile 3: Ruined World, as Avernum 2 is a remake of Exile 2: Crystal Souls. So, going by the same naming convention Jeff's been going for with the new remakes of Avernum 1-3, Avernum 3's remake is Avernum 3: Ruined World.

Anyway, let's just say you're in for a surprise when you get to the surface. I actually went into the series at Avernum 3, so moving to the newer engine was awkward on my end, even though all that really changed was the visuals and typical sequel stuff (adding content, for instance). Dunno why, but for some reason I just prefer the older graphics.

I'm not sure how long it'll be before 2 and 3 get their remakes finished. Jeff and co. are working on Avadon 2 and Avernum 2's remake right now, but he has yet to "officially" announce them. You might be waiting a while.

I thought the option to record parts of conversations was pretty much there for that purpose? I always recorded everything that seemed to indicate information relating to a quest and deleted the entries when I was done. It isn't ideal by any means, since it's often hard to tell what is useful or not (and some quests start via unloggable encounters), but it worked fairly well.

The addition of a quest tracker in 2 is one heck of an improvement, though.

Actually, I haven't bothered with Avernum 1, for the sake that it is just as clunky as the old Exile games.

2+3 are greatly improved over 1.

I haven't started this series yet, but from what I've read the latest Avernum 1 remake (Avernum: Escape From The Pit) is not clunky. Some of the old guard have posted that it has been streamlined & simplified too much for their liking.

Not that Avernum 1, the first Avernum 1. I know, its confusing. :B

Man, I just finished Avernum 1. I think I understand where mistermumbles is coming from. This game requires a certain state of mind in order to appreciate it. Some people like to wander around like lost children in massive worlds, but that sort of thing may feel like a chore if you're the a person who wants to get a lot accomplished in one session.

It's also too long for it's own good if you ask me. I came back to playing this game on a whim after about five months of not touching it and it's easy to see how I lost interest. Despite the writing being somewhat above-average (by games industry standards) there still wasn't enough for it to be compelling in any meaningful way. The characters were somewhat typical of what you see in most fantasy works, what with the dragons, wizards and whatnot. They were kind of static, no arcs or character development. Just information and quest dispensers who stayed put in their various corners of the world. I guess that can be said for many RPGs these days. Still, it doesn't change the way I felt about the story. It didn't leave a strong impression on me.

As for the setting, well, the aqua-coloured ground and walls were starting to make my eyes bleed. Also, despite the taking place in a prison, it seem as though it made much difference. There's just less sunlight and more fungus.

So why did I see it through to the end? I'm not quite sure. I had plenty of other things on the PC and various other consoles. Maybe it's because of what I saw in the later games, especially Avadon and Escape From the Pit, that drove me towards completion of Avernum 1.

I'm slightly confused. Escape from the Pit is Avernum 1 with updated graphics, streamlined game mechanics, and some added content. Wouldn't your criticisms of Avernum 1 also apply to Escape from the Pit?