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DC_vipeout: I was afraid I'd have to wage war against hate posts and random accusations. I suppose we deserve some, but I'm really happy that it's not that. We decided that the only good way to go from where we are, was honesty and thorough explanation. Thank you for your kind words.
Thank you for this post and your OP.
I was highly excited for your game and even pre-ordered which is something I rarely do.
Then over time I became a bit jaded on the subject and very weary due to the support (or frankly lack there of) and communication (or again lack of it) I've seen other releases on GOG fall prey to. I don't fault the GOG team for this, as far as I can tell they work hard, but some development studios and/or publishing houses (not sure which are making the calls in some cases) just don't seem interested in providing real support and interaction with folks here.

When the game released I was pleased but also cautious because of the above and so did some digging. From the partial picture I could put together on my own the view I had wasn't a very positive one and I said as much in the release thread.

I'm mentioning all of this because prior to reading your posts here I was planing on maybe picking up the game someday if it was 75% off or so. However having read what you've had to say here, and being given a more complete picture of what went on, I've changed my mind and plan to grab it as soon as today if the bank account says that works for me.

So, long winded post, but the point is to say thank you for the communication. And I want you to know how much it matters, you've not only earned a sale but at least from me a lot of good will by taking the time to be present here and explain what went on.

I'm looking forward to your next release on GOG, and I hope their team is reading this too so they know it :)
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rjbuffchix: but the cross play wasn't a big feature to me. It was more about the singleplayer. I can't imagine I am alone on this.
I strongly disagree with that sentiment. I absolutely loathe how ~99% of devs treat GOG customers like second-class citizens by never bothering to implement Crossplay on the GOG versions of their games. When they do that, that makes their theoretically/technically-multiplayer on GOG games effectively become singleplayer-only in actual real-life practice, since GOG multiplayer without Crossplay is barren and doesn't have enough players to make multiplayer functional.

So when that happens, Steam users get a great multiplayer product, yet GOG users playing the exact same game do not.

I'm so glad you devs didn't exclude Crossplay with Ancestor's Legacy and thus turn it into a defacto singleplayer-only game. Thanks a milion for not doing that. And please also do not ever exclude Crossplay in any future games you release on GOG either.
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LinusGorp: I wrote my review for these purposes:

1. [...] Obviously [...] I'm about 98% certain that those fears are unfounded here.

2. To give you ammunition. [...]

3., I did some digging a few days after the supposed release day and found out that pulling stunts like these is custom for your publisher
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skirtish: So, to summarize, you spammed a non-revocable 1-star non-review for 1) a wrong reason, 2) a presumptuous reason, and 3) an irrelevant reason. Cool.
1. The concept of time makes it quite impossible to take information into account I would only gain knowledge of in the future. Hindsight is always 10/10, but that's just not how reality works.

2. I may have worded that wrongly, but since you're 1. cherry-picking words and taking them out of context instead of responding to the whole point and 2., as we've seen above couldn't get something as simple as the concept of time right, I'll rather answer this with: The problem probably lies with you.

And 3., I'm not sure if you're aware, but the studio is responsible for developing the game while the publisher is responsible for funding development and marketing it. As Vipeout mentioned in his post, a 3rd party was supposed to develop the GoG version and since it's far more likely that 3rd party was contracted by the publisher than Destructive Creations, the publisher is to blame.
Same for the lack of communication. That also is supposed to be the publishers job and they failed miserably on that front too.
It also wasn't the first time this happened. It's a recurring theme where 1C Company (the publisher) is concerned. They have a history of releasing non-Steam versions past the planned release, if they ever release them at all.

You may not agree or simply be incapable of seeing the bigger picture, but I assure you it's a very far shot from "irrelevant".
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DC_vipeout: Hi everyone, I'm known as vipeout and I work for Destructive Creations. I'm a programmer, but DC is a small studio so I also handle support and communication with players. Some of you may recognize me from the Steam forums. This is my first post here and there's a lot to discuss. As developers, we believe that you deserve an explanation about the entire situation regarding releasing Ancestors Legacy on GOG. I'm leaving this thread open, because I want you to have a place and a chance to ask any questions you may have after reading this post. I do not promise I will be able to answer them all, but I do have a rule of not ignoring people, which I almost always keep.

Let's start with GOG team. Some of you wrote that GOG team has lost your trust due to the insane delay that we're having with Ancestors Legacy. That is unfair. Once they had realized how severe the situation was they offered a lot of help. We consulted with them on what their policies are about many different scenarios. We worked together to achieve desired effects using their libraries. They even implemented features into their SDK specifically requested by us, so we could port the game sooner and better! They shifted their own development timelines and adjusted them to our needs. They solved every problem we had with their libraries and systems which allowed us to speed up porting process and made sure we are able to follow their policies. We were constantly in touch. Their support was incredible and a huge difference from what we always had on Steam. Needles to say – for the better! It was an amazing thing they did for us, we had never experienced something like that before. Huge thanks to GOG!

We hope, that in future, we will have the chance to work with GOG team again. They've been great to us. Helpful. Understood our messy situation. They probably kept at it to satisfy you, those who trust them, but that's just my guess.

Ok, so, having said that, let's get to the most important question everyone's asking. Why was the delay so huge? It boils down to several things:
1. We did not expect we would have to develop the GOG version ourselves. It was not planned in our time budgets. As many of you already know, a 3rd party was supposed to deliver GOG version of our game. As you all know, it didn't. Having been put in that situation we've decided that we cannot let anyone down and we'll deliver the title all by ourselves, despite our already busy plans and absolutely no experience with GOG platform.
2. We could not just abandon all the previously planned expansions, tournaments, patches and bugfixes. Dedicated servers, console release, spectator, heroes. We had to work on all that while simultaneously working on GOG version. Why? Because with no updates, games die much faster. It would be dead before we'd port it.
3. We had to make sure that all this new content and features also properly work on GOG. Each thing we planned to develop for Steam we had to also adjust for GOG build. That quickly piled up a lot of additional work.
4. Ancestors Legacy is our first game on this platform. It's not just “copy the Steam build to GOG and done”, as some of you may think. DRM is not an issue here at all. Low level subsystems are – user verification, online play, cross–play, achievements, leaderboards and adjusting our game to GOG policies are some examples of what we did.
5. When a studio releases a game it's usually the last sprint to a finish line. When you reach the end line and something bad happens forcing you to race for many more long months... it doesn't help.

There were several rumors about the reasons behind the delay. The delay didn't happen because we were afraid that GOG release would hurt Steam sales. Games released on Steam, which use Steam DRM only, are pirated on release day for years now. It didn't happen because we thought that nobody would play on GOG anyway. If we did, we'd never plan a GOG release in the first place. It also didn't happen because we considered you second class customers, although it might've looked that way. Yes, we failed in communication here, on GOG forums. Unfortunately this also is not as simple as it should be. I agree that you should have been warned about the delay before the game's release. You wouldn't get much lead time, but at least something. The delay was known to not be “slight” at the launch date and everybody involved had to know it. Despite what we thought, it was decided by the publisher that such communication with you, was good enough.

Lessons learned? Be hardcore on the 3rd party that works for you. Make sure to communicate with players, regardless of circumstances.

We do realize that some (probably most) of you have decided to refund the game. Still, we have finally managed to deliver with full cross–play support, as promised. With all the content and features that are available on Steam today. We do realize that we've lost a lot of trust and good will from you. This is your first experience with us and we haven't really entered with style, to put it gently. Failing miserably gives more truth to it. We do care about what players think about us and we've really tried our best here.

To apologize for the failure that in reality we're only partially responsible for, the game is 50% off. This is a compensation for the long wait time. We are aware that for many of you this is not enough. However, at this point, it's the only thing we can do.

We are aware that you may feel disappointed, what we aim to achieve is making up and trying to restore our team's image. We also want you to know, that we'll be releasing all the future patches in the same time on both platforms. It's not a wishful thinking or an empty promise. You probably won't believe so easily (and truthfully – you shouldn't after all that mess), but it's a fact – we have to synchronize the builds in order for cross–play, that we worked so hard to implement, to work at all. Desynchronized builds crash :)

We honestly hope, that despite this insane delay followed by radio silence, you'll be able to give us a chance with our next games. That is, if our future games are allowed to appear on GOG after this entire mess. We just hope, that what we're trying to do now, what we've been consistently doing for the past months will be enough for you to give us another chance. We're really sorry.

Destructive Creations Team.
Thank you very much for all these explanations ! :)

Will there be new content like additional units and maps in skirmish and multiplayer ?

Thank you
Post edited March 18, 2019 by Jonasuan
We plan 1 more DLC (2 are already released and you have them already, they were free and released as a patch). It will add a new, playable nation, entire campaign for that nation (5 chapters) and several multiplayer maps. The new nation will have new units, technologies, buildings, even some new mechanics. We do not plan to add more units to the currently released nations.
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DC_vipeout: We plan 1 more DLC (2 are already released and you have them already, they were free and released as a patch). It will add a new, playable nation, entire campaign for that nation (5 chapters) and several multiplayer maps. The new nation will have new units, technologies, buildings, even some new mechanics. We do not plan to add more units to the currently released nations.
A new nation and game mechanics it's great !

For me, GOG and Free DRM are very important, I'm glad that your game is available on GOG, because it's a good game, and I hope that your next productions will also be available here !

Again thanks to you :)
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DC_vipeout: We plan 1 more DLC (2 are already released and you have them already, they were free and released as a patch). It will add a new, playable nation, entire campaign for that nation (5 chapters) and several multiplayer maps. The new nation will have new units, technologies, buildings, even some new mechanics. We do not plan to add more units to the currently released nations.
Look forward to picking it up :)
Hi, thank you for the clarification.
At first I admit I was pretty pissed and I thought you were the sort of devs that threat GOG users with disrespect, but I see this is not the case, so no more ill-will on my part. For once, I am glad to be wrong, your reasons are sensible -though stating them earlier could have spared you some hassles.
I have just bought the game, looking forward to play it! :)
Thank you for the post, all is forgiven, and I've rebought the game here and am having a blast.

I am still a bit unsure how to get a multiplayer game going. When I try looking for a game I see lots of empty games on the official servers.

When I host my own game, I assume that means I host on my computer. How do others find my game then? Does it show on the official servers? I can't check for myself since that means I have to leave the screen.

Do I hope on to one of the official server game and hope someone joins?

I know this isn't a tech support question, but since you guys did put a ton of effort to ensure GOG can crossplay, I'm here wondering what I did wrong.
high rated
Hi.

Skipping the whole apology thing and everything relevant.
I can't help but wonder what added value do the people who preordered receive, for their faith and patience, compared to those who bought it with the 50% price cut, on release (up until the 22nd of March).
They paid for the same released content, available to everyone on the same day, in advance and in full price (assuming they honored their preorders). I don't believe an apology can remedy that in any way, if we wish to be objective.
I am overtaken by how blissful this thread has become and thus I fear I will forget I posted such an
unconventional suggestion, so please don't forget to reply soon!

Regards.
Post edited March 20, 2019 by Fate-is-one-edge
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Fate-is-one-edge: Hi.

Skipping the whole apology thing and everything relevant.
I can't help but wonder what added value do the people who preordered receive, for their faith and patience, compared to those who bought it with the 50% price cut, on release (up until the 22nd of March).
They paid for the same released content, available to everyone on the same day, in advance and in full price (assuming they honored their preorders). I don't believe an apology can remedy that in any way, if we wish to be objective.
I am overtaken by how blissful this thread has become and thus I fear I will forget I posted such an
unconventional suggestion, so please don't forget to reply soon!

Regards.
What do you mean?

Some time ago, GOG offered to refund those who preordered the game for the full price - were you not here or did you simply decided not to take up on that offer?

I did, and I was one of those who preordered it.
I just don´t get the bitterness in your tone, when alternative was offered to you and you could ask for said refund for a reasonable period of time, so once again: how come you did not knew about it?
And how come you make yourself heard only now, after so long?
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Fate-is-one-edge: Hi.

Skipping the whole apology thing and everything relevant.
I can't help but wonder what added value do the people who preordered receive, for their faith and patience, compared to those who bought it with the 50% price cut, on release (up until the 22nd of March).
They paid for the same released content, available to everyone on the same day, in advance and in full price (assuming they honored their preorders). I don't believe an apology can remedy that in any way, if we wish to be objective.
I am overtaken by how blissful this thread has become and thus I fear I will forget I posted such an
unconventional suggestion, so please don't forget to reply soon!

Regards.
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Tarhiel: What do you mean?

Some time ago, GOG offered to refund those who preordered the game for the full price - were you not here or did you simply decided not to take up on that offer?

I did, and I was one of those who preordered it.
I just don´t get the bitterness in your tone, when alternative was offered to you and you could ask for said refund for a reasonable period of time, so once again: how come you did not knew about it?
And how come you make yourself heard only now, after so long?
Excuse me dear apologizer.

Did I address you anywhere in the entirety of my post?
How come you are entitled to reply to it with everything irrelevant and demand answers to ignorant questions with such an attitude?
Unfortunately I do get your mentality. Please, do not disturb me further.

Farewell.
(What a retard)
Post edited November 22, 2020 by FateIsOneEdge
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kongxinga: Thank you for the post, all is forgiven, and I've rebought the game here and am having a blast.

I am still a bit unsure how to get a multiplayer game going. When I try looking for a game I see lots of empty games on the official servers.

When I host my own game, I assume that means I host on my computer. How do others find my game then? Does it show on the official servers? I can't check for myself since that means I have to leave the screen.

Do I hope on to one of the official server game and hope someone joins?

I know this isn't a tech support question, but since you guys did put a ton of effort to ensure GOG can crossplay, I'm here wondering what I did wrong.
Yeah, I'd prefer people asked the question in FAQ or Technical Issues thread. But since here we are already - when you host a match you host it on your PC. That information goes to GOG servers and anybody can easily find your server, they are shown in the same place as the official ones. At the server browser screen there are filters on the left, which allow you to easily specify which servers you want to search for. Quickmatch prefers lobbies with players already so no issue here.

Crossplay works with no additional actions needed from you. There have to be players at the moment you're playing, though ;)

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Fate-is-one-edge: Hi.

Skipping the whole apology thing and everything relevant.
I can't help but wonder what added value do the people who preordered receive, for their faith and patience, compared to those who bought it with the 50% price cut, on release (up until the 22nd of March).
They paid for the same released content, available to everyone on the same day, in advance and in full price (assuming they honored their preorders). I don't believe an apology can remedy that in any way, if we wish to be objective.
I am overtaken by how blissful this thread has become and thus I fear I will forget I posted such an
unconventional suggestion, so please don't forget to reply soon!

Regards.
You are correct, that for those who preordered the game and have not refunded it during all that time there is currently no special content. From information we currently posses, vast majority of players refunded the game. There are however several that remained (literally several). Are you one of those?

Due to your post, we've reached out to our publisher and GOG with question, whether we are even able to have a list of those accounts in order to know who to give something. Please note however, that if we were producing content specifically for one platform, then we would delay the release even further. We were really lacking time. No special content here.

Once we do know who are those people, we'll probably give them OST and Artbook. If the preordered version was the "Special" edition, we'll think of something. Maybe they'll get the expansion pack for free. Maybe even all of them get the expansion pack for free. That is to be decided, there are options.

The important part is - we omitted that case (regardless of how rare it is, that should not happen). Thank you for bringing this up. I believe that you should not have to do that and that this can be perceived as us avoiding responsibility. I assure you that this is not the case, we have really forgot about this case in all the heat surrounding the release. Clearly anothing mistake that needs fixing. We're on it.
Post edited March 20, 2019 by DC_vipeout
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Tarhiel: What do you mean?

Some time ago, GOG offered to refund those who preordered the game for the full price - were you not here or did you simply decided not to take up on that offer?

I did, and I was one of those who preordered it.
I just don´t get the bitterness in your tone, when alternative was offered to you and you could ask for said refund for a reasonable period of time, so once again: how come you did not knew about it?
And how come you make yourself heard only now, after so long?
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Fate-is-one-edge: Excuse me dear apologizer.

Did I address you anywhere in the entirety of my post?
How come you are entitled to reply to it with everything irrelevant and demand answers to ignorant questions with such an attitude?
Unfortunately I do get your mentality. Do not disturb me further.

Farewell.
Well, fuck you too.
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DC_vipeout: You are correct, that for those who preordered the game and have not refunded it during all that time there is currently no special content. From information we currently posses, vast majority of players refunded the game. There are however several that remained (literally several). Are you one of those?

Due to your post, we've reached out to our publisher and GOG with question, whether we are even able to have a list of those accounts in order to know who to give something. Please note however, that if we were producing content specifically for one platform, then we would delay the release even further. We were really lacking time. No special content here.

Once we do know who are those people, we'll probably give them OST and Artbook. If the preordered version was the "Special" edition, we'll think of something. Maybe they'll get the expansion pack for free. Maybe even all of them get the expansion pack for free. That is to be decided, there are options.

The important part is - we omitted that case (regardless of how rare it is, that should not happen). Thank you for bringing this up. I believe that you should not have to do that and that this can be perceived as us avoiding responsibility. I assure you that this is not the case, we have really forgot about this case in all the heat surrounding the release. Clearly anothing mistake that needs fixing. We're on it.
Hi DC_Vipeout.

Thank you for your reply on the matter.
I don't happen to be one of those who preordered the game, instead I benefited from the 50% price cut on release.
I inquired about treating the population who honored their preorders, as an act of consumer solidarity and to be honest I am stunned that no one who actually preordered on GOG.com, bothered to mention this practical issue in the thread. It is respectable that you recognize the injustice presented to those consumers and you are eager to make it right for them, without biasing your response, based on how few they appear to be (it could be only one for all it matters).
My initial post didn't mean to pass judgement on perceived lack of responsibility, rather simply and politely ask about if there is indeed a lack of one. If you felt insulted, please accept my apology.
Since the matter is now cleared up in the GOG.com forum, I can only thank you for your honesty and understanding, on behalf of those who honored their preorders.

Have a nice day!
Post edited March 20, 2019 by Fate-is-one-edge