I don't see how time pressure / APM pressure obviates Starcraft being a good example of asymmetrical balance. Aren't they largely unrelated issues? The actual numbers of the game still matter a lot. Starcraft is the game people throw around as a byword for asymmetrical balance, and quite rightly.

I really disagree about your example of stronger units being balanced by slowness in RTS, but not in AoW. Movespeed is very strong in AoW and you totally could balance around it. A slow, strong army totally could be danced around on a reasonably large, reasonably open map. Maybe I can buff the t4s that're blocked by walls because of this....

People having access to many races in any given game makes researching race balance harder, but it makes it a lot easier to reach a tolerable level of race balance. And actually, I don't think racial balance is bad as it stands already, because every single race has at least one or two units that are top-tier.

It's actually not hard at all to make the races reasonably balanced when you can have them do radically different things in the higher tier units. It's if you were trying to make them all do the same thing with a slight twist that any disparities would be obnoxious. If the differences are embraced, then it's okay to have each race be inferior in some regards, because they're stronger in others, and each has its day in the sun.

My problems with TS136 balance are
1.) The many t3s which are excessively weak, and some t1s like the scorpions
2.) Swordsmen vs. Archers
3.) A small number of OP units like the elephant which should get a slap on the wrist
4.) Spellcasting not being a viable levelup option compared to +4DEF, and magic generally being too expensive.
5.) Fire magic is horribly weak.

So basically, I want unit choice to be improved instead of defaulting mindlessly to the good units and ignoring the bad ones, and for magic to play a bigger role instead of heroes being only about calculating how many arrow volleys you can survive while killing x number of archers.

Sadly changing Spellcasting levelup cost is impossible as far as I know, no-one has managed it. Need source code and maybe a computer whizz too. My solution is just to put lots of spellcasting V heroes in the maps I will be making (XL 3 level 5 player map nearly completed that I've been working on last 2 months)

Edit: rethinking on this one

Dang it! Gog just ate my post! >.<

Above Average.

Cavaliers don't dominate the Defense field. Leprechauns, Nature Elementals, Red Dragons, and Gold Dragons all have higher defense, and several units (Warlords, Basilisks) have the same defense. Cavaliers are easily the Human T3 unit of choice, but they don't stand out from the general field of units for being stronger or weaker.

Humans have 3 primary advantages: 1) They'll work with anyone except the undead. 2) A lack of abilities is reflected in a lack of extra costs. Iirc, humans pay a little less than most races for a given type of unit, and that can matter when you are scrounging for every coin. 3) They don't have the perks of other races (dwarf mountaineering, elf forestry), but they also don't have the drawbacks (slow dwarf speed, weaker elf melee damage).

I'll concede Strong.

The Azrac racial of higher attack and lower defense means this is one of two races where I'd actually consider building their swordsmen (the other being Orcs).

Elephants and Rider move speed are both exceptional, but T3 looks pretty meh. I've never seen Avatars in action, so I'm not sure how they work in practice.

Elephants and race relations are the only things that push this race above Balanced.

Below Average.

Frostling ranking depends pretty heavily on their situation. Their lower move speed hurts quite a bit more than general Cold Protection helps (few adversaries use Cold Damage).

The Penguin's whole draw is swimming. They can go after lizards and expand acrss water a lot easier than other races. Having a decent flyer at T3 also helps Frostling mobility.

Frost Queens look like a support unit. They can solve the water problem for an army, and changing terrain is a minor perk for them between the concealement and the minor morale boost for units and cities.

Other perks are neutral race relations and a ranged T4 flyer.

I agree that Lizards are Above Average, riding heavily on swimming. If a map has very little water, then the lizards drop to merely Balanced for that map.

I think Halfling speed and lack of outstanding combat units after T1 drag them down to Balanced.

I don't like the 1 damage cap on Slinger shots, but I can't argue that 4 shots per attack doesn't make up for it. Marksmanship makes these units beastly.

T2 is garbage, but T3 has some decent choices for different functions.

Leprechauns have excellent defense, but they are lacking on offense. Invisibility would probably make them a PBEM nightmare for everyone except High Men, especially with some decent buffs. Amusingly, Life is probably the worst sphere for Leprechauns.

Above Average.

-Archers start with Marksmanship.
-Riders have forestry, good move, and Vision 1.
-Clerics have Entangle.
-Rangers do everything except Fly and Wall Climb, and they do it with concealment.
-Unicorns are stronger cavalry with innate Magic Strike and Healing.
-Nature Elementals have innate Entangle Strike.

The only thing they are really missing is True Seeing.

Below Average. Camping on mountains is nice, but 8 move/hex is especially rough on the lower Dwarf speed.

Berserkers are a mixed bag, trading defense for damage, hp, and round attack. I've never minded having them, but I'm not sure they are worth building instead of archers.

Balloons are weaker than Air Galleys, but they are quite useful. I used some in the campaign levels, and having one town pumping them out really helps move your army around.

Giants are excellent units. They have good attack, great damage with every attack, siege-range wall crushing, and they hurl boulders even in the first round of auto-combat. They outshine First Born by being nearly as strong, faster, and cheaper in both gold and time.

Moles are primarily for underground exploration using their Night Vision and Tunneling. They are decent, if uninspired, combatants.

Strong.

Everything you said, and they have good relations with the Humans! Their otherwise-poor race relations are their biggest drawback.

Balanced.

Dark Elf versus Elf strength is situational. They both have strengths, but their strengths are in different areas. For example, Dark Elf night vision is an advantage underground, while Elves have forestry.

Incarnates can be very fatal, but Nature Elementals aren't hamstrung by as many situations.

Overall, I think Dark Elves sometimes excel, but Elves are more generally powerful.

Below Average. The early tiers are simply too important.

Spearmen's first strike is surprisingly good against other race's swordsmen, but 2 damage and 4hp means they fall apart that much easier.

Darters have 3 poisonous shots per attack, but they have a 1 damage cap so they need a lot more shots to actually make the kill. Again, 4 hp leaves them dying that much faster. Darters DO make good support units for other armies by poisoning a target to soften it for other units to kill.

Trolls don't have great defense, but they do have decent attack and hp, and they have great damage. They also have Regeneration.

Beetles are mediocre fighters, but that 40 move is lovely, especially when you are trying to Tunnel.

Karaghs are the Wrath Of God in land-bound form. Amusing thought: perhaps all the other goblin units sacrificed a portion of their combat ability, and the race installed all the extra bits into the Karagh. :)

Below Average.

Swordsmen have extra damage.

Warlords are only average speed, but they are excellent killers. That kind of describes the race as a whole: they have trouble getting places or doing things, but they are lethal in combat.

Doom Bats are scouts/thieves for use underground.

Assassins are for solo, concealed, wall-climbing missions. One could be added to a Warlord army to poison targets.

Yep, Above Average.

Racial Renegeration is wonderful, and their units have several other specials without significant stat degradation. Race relations hold them back.

Strong: 2
Above Average: 4
Balanced: 2
Below Average: 5

I suppose I'm also unbalanced.

I pretty much agree with everything that Bookwyrm said... only I actually think that Goblins and Frostlings aren't as bad as everyone else thinks they are.

Goblins
- Having such easy access to poison early on is super helpful for Goblins who can then supplement any of their other T1 swordsmen needs with that of other race's units.
- Beetles can be weak, yes... but paired with Earth magic giving them Stone Skin and even just a silver medal and suddenly you have a 6 defense unit with 40 move speed who can poison their enemies and crush walls.

Frostlings
- Shaman with Frost bolts is awesome for locking units down in tons of cases without the possible retaliation that Elven Clerics face when using Entangle.
- Nordic Glows have physical protection so they can be quite good even on their own.
- Yetis may have a bit lower defence, but with 6 attack and cold strike... they're more terrifying than an Orc Warlord in a straight up fight.

Actually... while I'm at it...

Orcs
- The Doom Bat has the Cause Fear and Poison Strike, two abilities which could seriously destroy the stats of opposing units with only one successful hit.

Seriously, as I think about this more and more I realize that the only races I consider to be weak are as follows:

Dwarves
- Though the First Born is a beast in combat, able to take on multiple Warlords / Cavaliers / Whatever Else due to their quite high health pool, they're somewhat slow and are easily countered by anything that has a flying ranged attack as long as it's not fire-based (Red Dragon)
- Dwarves severely lack the ability to fight back against anything in flight. Yes, the Giant has a great range, but it's still just a catapult with 3 attack stat making it more likely to die before killing a dragon. I feel this makes Dwarves rely too heavily on Clerics in the late game to fight back against flying things, though that's assuming there isn't any other good / neutral race with something good to fight back with.

.....
No yeah, that's really it. I mean, I seriously think the other races all have fine tools if required to complete a map on their own, but the Dwarves end-game is just lacking compared to every other race in the game because they don't have a T3 / T4 unit which is GOOD at attacking UP.

The only other race that I believe would truly struggle if unable to use any other race MAY be the early game of the Goblins. Though I say that with a grain of salt because with enough production, it's only 11 gp for each Goblin Darter so....... cheap cheapcheapcheap cheeeeeeap.

* * * IN SUMMARY * * *
- Buff the Dwarf First Born OR give the balloon more speed and archery (Or both)
- Give some T1 units Wall Climbing so that we're not always stopped up by slow-moving battering rams / some useless units might be seen every once in a while (I'm looking at you Kobold / Scorpion / Giant Slug / Berserker)
- Give a little bit of love to the Goblin Spearman with +1 health
- Let players pick their own spheres of magic with each game causing a possibly completely different game as the available spheres may dictate the strategy to be used throughout the map.

-First Born does need a buff. For the sake of asymmetry I'd rather he still not have a ranged attack, but just be really good at melee.
-I've never seen the Balloon extensively used in a PBEM but I suspect it may be one of the strongest units in the game.
-I'd rather buff the Spearman with more attack rather than health, for reasons of asymmetry and theme.

The last idea, letting people choose their magic spheres, is a brilliant one!

Why choose a Reaper when a Wraith rips through more armies?
Why choose a First Born when a Giant is better in combat?
Why choose a Karaugh when Beetles are better for map pressure?
Why choose an Avatar when Elephants are better for map pressure?
Why choose a Basilisk when Wyvern give better map pressure?
Why choose a Leprechaun when Eagle Riders give better map pressure?

My philosophy is to make level 4 units feel like an overpowered version of a lesser unit.

Why not let Reapers have physical immunity and pass wall?
Why not let First Borns have hurl boulder?
Why not let Karaughs have crush wall?
Why not let Avatars have crush wall?
Why not let Basilisk have crush wall?
Why not let Leprechauns have wall climbing?

Simple changes that increase the map threat value of higher level units means that players are more inclined to use them. Giving units abilities to overcome walls is basically just an effort to reduce the value of walls.

That's a great point. Level 4 units, while good, just aren't REALLY worth the time and money considering it's still necessary to have supporting units NOT BECAUSE LEVEL 4s ARE BAD.... but because they can't do anything on their own. I still wouldn't expect to see many level 4s in most games due to the time and money required, but if you ever did get there I agree that simple things like adding wall crushing or wall climbing to most of them would be a fantastic idea!

That is probably because of the rather extensive pre-req's for using it.
-You need a T3/4 Dwarf city, which means you aren't going to build them as an evil or pure evil race.
-The Dwarf race doesn't have much to push a player to migrate a city TO dwarves, so the city has to start as Dwarves. High Men are a better race, Elves and Halflings have better archers, most of the Neutrals would rather either copy themselves or a race better than Dwarves (and the Neutrals could pick from Evil races, too).
-It can't be conquered for several turns by an evil race, or it will be migrated away from Dwarves.
-It takes 6 turns and 500 gold to push the city to T3.
-Balloons can't fight, while Giants can fight. So the player probably needs more than one T3/4 Dwarf town. If all you have is Giants, then you can do things. If all you have is Balloons, then you're in deep trouble.

Because a Reaper doesn't fall over as soon as it runs into a unit with Magic Strike or Holy Strike.

+2 att, +1 def, +4 dam, +3 res, +8 hp, +4 move, cause fear, charge, fearless.

Karaghs are AMAZING combat units. In comparison, Beetles only have wall crushing and tunneling. Karaghs don't need poison strike because poison strike implies there is anything left after the Karagh gets done.

If I had to choose between Karaghs + rams OR Beetles, I'd take the Karaghs + rams.

Again, Avatars are significantly better combatants.

+3 attack, +2 Def, +10 hp, Ranged attack, True Seeing.

Wyvern's do make better scouts, though.

Eagles are flimsy. Leprechauns are invisible little creatures that are very difficult to hit and even harder to track. Sure, Eagles can fly past walls, but only towers and walled cities can keep a leprechaun out.

Because physical immune on a strong body is broken. The only units with physical immune by default are the squishy wraith and the incarnate with its wimpy arms.

Pass wall isn't nearly as much of a problem, and it isn't entirely out of theme either.

It would be thematic, but Karaghs are already pretty disgusting.

They have enough other strong points (ex. Dominate), and it isn't thematic.

It isn't thematic, and the Lizards don't need the extra advantages.

I could see that, but Leprechauns are already troublesome.

Except for maybe the First Born, all of these units are already worth using if you have access to them. They don't see as much play simply because there isn't a lot of game space for most of them. They require significant investments in both gold and time.

Also, some of the changes would mean the unit completely overshadows every other option the race has (a la the Air Galley being Just Better than the entire Human arsenal in every situation).

I played aow2 for years before I came to AoW, and even since 2016 most PBEMs we played were aow2 until aow1 took over to become 90% of the games about a year ago. I think AoW1 is the better game. Perhaps the most important thing AoW1 has over AoW2 is that walls matter. In AoW2 PBEMs, because all units can attack gates, walls only have an impact in small-scale sieges; they're totally irrelevant in larger ones where they are immediately destroyed. So I really, really like walls, and I even like the idea of a t4 unit being stymied by walls.

I don't share your philosophy of making t4s the big daddy version of a lesser unit - I'm fine with the Reaper lacking the Wraith's Physical immunity, or with the Avatar needing an Elephant to crush walls, or the Karagh needing a beetle for the same reason. I do think the t4s you mention could use a buff - only a small one in some cases, bigger in some others. And I think the wall-beating abilities you mention would be thematically acceptable. However, my preference is to give them different buffs, generally to make them better in fights, or to merely make them a bit cheaper in the case of the nearly-good ones like the Karagh.

The changes you advocate would work perfectly well, better than TS136, but they wouldn't be my preference.

Kinda sounds like TS136 is just fine (except for a couple small changes) and that we just need to start making some better maps. :P