Oh, first to respond to this thread.....hmmm.

I actually think 1.45 is a perfect base for this LAN version....I mean, it is really good!

There is ONLY 1 thing I'd like to see added:

1) Leadership skill giving a stack bonus of +1ATT, +1DEF, +1RES....and +4MOV IF possible. The skill cost would need to be modified as well, but that is easy to do within the editor.

That's it from me! :)

P.S. topic title made me laugh!

Thanks for this!

Perhaps you could record the suggestions made here at the end of the OP, but ~~strike them out~~ when someone (who is interested in playing the CBD, as opposed to being satisfied with mainline AoW+ anyway) says they don't like them? We're not organised enough to present group suggestions.... not even sure who 'we' is ;)

I'll make suggestions based off 1.45. Mine will be geared towards the Common Bespoke Downgrade as the fun, tasteless version of AoW+, for peasants who just want to have fun, realism be damned :P
I think that's the point of the Common Bespoke Downgrade - to be more about MP/gameplay, while mainline AoW+ is the ideal campaign experience?

Anyway, my suggestions:

1) Cost of Neutral-relations city recruitment brought down to be only 150% of the cost for Polite city recruitment. I think it's currently 200% ?
Reasoning: Otherwise, I don't think anyone will recruit neutral cities except the AI. Which is a shame because I like this added feature.

2) Friendly City recruitment cost increased from nothing to 25% of the value for Polite city recruitment.
Reasoning: Otherwise, raiding cities with a single flier/wallclimber backfires because the enemy can recruit a load of free troops when the raided towns rebel against you. Or you can let an AI raid cities (AI are used in MP sometimes), just to get free troops afterwards. Many maps might go bonkers with free city recruitment. This way, at least you pay most of the cost of the troops.

3) Rebuilding cities reduced from 150-800 gold to 50-200, and from 10 turns to 2/4/6/8 turns
Reasoning: Two maps I made recently that I'd like to play on AoW+ (Xelm and Maugogom) both feature ruined cities that are 'supposed' to be rebuildable by players. Also in general I like having the option on any map. This way it'd fit with AoW+'s general slower pace for city actions, but would still be a practical choice.

4) Rebuild Tower reduced from 100 gold and 5 turns to 40 gold and 2 turns
5) Build Road cost halved from 10 to 5
Reasoning: it's rare to see anyone use these, it'd be nice to see them cheap enough that they'd be used. And there's less gold in AoW+.

6) Heroes gain 1/4/9/16/25 experience from level 1/2/3/4/5 units/heroes, instead of 0/5/15/25/50
Reasoning: it's good to have nonlinear XP scaling, but I just find the 1.45 scaling a bit too dramatic, even with AoW+ upping the free XP per day heroes get.
7) Heroes gain 10 skillpoints per level
Reasoning: this is aimed at MP, where I actually enjoy TS136's superheroes, it was just brainless that it was all about rushing to 10 DEF in 3 or 4 levels. I'd love an engine where heroes are still very strong, but there are other routes of development.

8) Heroes movement point levelup cost from 5 to 3
9) Heroes can levelup HP again, for 6 points.
Reasoning: giving heroes more movement and HP is fun gameplay, even if it's a bit silly/unrealistic. 3 and 6 are slightly more than the original TS136 costs of 2/5.

10) Marksmanship levelup cost reduced from 5 to 3
Reasoning: the multishot ranged attacks all got nerfed, making Marksmanship way less powerful. Maybe this change should also be seen in mainline AoW+?
11) Alternatively, perhaps Marksmanship itself could be changed? Instead of being a bonus of (1/0, 1/1, 2/1, 2/2) to ATK/DAM, could it now be a bonus of (1/1, 2/2, 3/3, 4/4), since all the multishot attacks got weakened? Don't make me cry over my precious Gold Medal Elven Archers :(

12) Silver and Gold Meal reverted to give 1 HP each
Reasoning: Sure, maybe it doesn't make sense and is unrealistic, but for gameplay, I prefer it when a force of Gold Medal T1s does a better job surviving an Altar blast etc.

1. vision

reduce vision of building and cities from 6 to 3
reduce vision of tower from 12 to 8

above to be reduce by 1 due to passive vision.

why
[i]normal unit will have longer see range than capture points.
2x towers would not secure your entire empire from sneak attacks.[/i]

1a.
Vision I/II/III/IV grant : +2 / +3 / +4 / +5 vision range [instead +2/4/6/8]

2.
rename abilities:
dragon > monster
dragon slayer > monster slayer

2a.
copy paste dragon abilities and name them:
copy dragon > Hero
copy dragon slayer > Assassin

source

3. can we add 3x other copy-paste Leadership abilities? (because it seem cannot be Ld I / II / III / IV )

Tactics: +1 Def for stack
Inspiration: +1 Res for stack
Pathfinding: +3 Move [why not +4?! to emphasize it giving bonus on difficult terrain (or road :) ), but whatever could be +4]

4.
seduce At 4 Rp 1 > At 4 Rp 2
charm At 5 Rp 1 ?
dominate at 6 rp 1 ?

I support the +1 ATK / +1 DEF idea for Leadership. I assume that's easy to do, whereas giving RES, MV etc is impractical? Same with copying and altering other abilities - I think it's too hard, and I just suspect from the technical details you posted on aowheaven that Leadership already has a +DEF option that's currently set to 0.

Would also be great to have Monster and Monster slaying, but maybe this is something that will take time and be seen in 1.5

'You' is whoever needs or wants modifications to the AoW engine but is not satisfied with the current state of AoW+ and the direction it is taking. Whether that turns out to be mostly modders or PBEM players isn't really any of my concern.

If you are not organised then you should get organised. The point of the CBD project is to minimise my workload, not multiply it. If I have to keep track of every single feature request then that defeats the purpose.

Basically, I only become involved once you have all agreed on a list of feature requests. How you get to that point is up to you.

If IniochReborn and Thereunto were to also express there opinions here, in addition to Lagi and paradoxnrnt, then that would probably be enough of a base of opinions, since all of us are dedicated enough to have made maps, rulesets, and organised PBEMs. I will ask them though maybe Thereunto is too busy.

After a while discussing in this thread, if that's okay, one of us can post the conclusion of the various comments. Should take a week or so I guess?

ok, not sure, i enjoy move cost and no HP. But as for Multi, maybe its fun.
10,11 sounds reasonable. i just never used it for hero. And boosting Mark for units doesnt sound good to me.

I support these ideas though I'd rather see the structures changed from 6->4 and 12->10 instead, a more moderate choice What does 'Rp' mean here?

# Lagi_

...so if I understand, you are saying that we should have several version of Leadership (since we can't stack Leadership as in I/II/III/IV)?

So Leadership + 1 ATT, and a Leadership +1 DEF, and a Leadership +1 RES?

I guess this gives And G an extra way to implement the concept. :)

2x towers reveal and detection is too big

sneaky attack are fun. And balance game vs powerful player with territory control, because he has harder time controling where somecould be.

take into account you want cheaper and more available towers

i stare on hexes maps for some time, and i come to conclusion that 8 (7 active) see range is still a lot. repeats - number of attack

nymphs and ladys are fragile unit. more reps mean more counter strikes (and its not affecting all targets). Seducing unit are too weak. Either they need some additional purpose, or the seduce need to be stronger.


yes, unless its technically not possible.

Leadership with movement is good. Because it would incline player to move units with the stack. Instead spreading the group. Reduce micomanagment.

Making Resistance more relevant would be nice, as 90% of what targets Resistance right now needs to bypass Defense, first, which makes sense for things like Poison Darts (can't get poisoned if the dart doesn't hit you) but maybe less sense for things like Seduce.

It'd also be interesting if certain attacks (say Doom Gaze, maybe Call Flames) were blocked by Resistance instead of Defense. We could go the SM route and make all sorts of magic attacks like that but it might be too much.

Also even with Ballistas now only having one shot I still think something's gotta be done about the Musketeer. Maybe put that sucker on a horse or something, cause the 6 MP it has over the Ballista doesn't cut it given the higher upkeep and extra upgrade required.

Alternatively, axe the Ballista for Humans and put the Musketeer in its place. Of course that would require creating a totally new level 3 unit for Humans which might be beyond the scope of the mod anyway.

100%. Not sure if And G will be able to do this, though.

You are right, but this is the sort of thing a common Ruleset modification made with DevEd can address.

And G's modding is unique in that he's using decompilers, assemblers or whatever (technical stuff I don't understand) to edit the game in ways that DevEd cannot. So unless you think the ability Fire Musket is what should be edited, then this is a job for any idiot with DevEd, and not something that requires And G's special skills.

http://aow.heavengames.com/downloads/showfile.php?fileid=1222
Here is DevEd if you want to make your own ruleset. Personally I just made Musketeers cost 20 gold, gave them extra DEF, HP, MV, and Marksmanship, and called it a day.

I wish AoW1 use more of Resistance, like in AoW3. But there is no chance for that, whole game rules would have to be changed - this need source code.

All balistas should be put into builders guild, and new t2 unit should be given to every race.
Ram, balista, catapult is a slot holder, which is mostly painful with T2.

With what unit would you replace T3 musketeer (if you switch him with balista?) ?

Well....we some to have some disagreement here. How about we try this!

Let's try to each put in a SINGLE wish/request (based on 1.45)....and let's DO OUR BEST to make our single request NOT be something others disagree with!

*IF we can do a single request each (with no disagreements), then we'll try doing 2 requests each....this way, we can see how far we can get before we are unable to agree to further changes.


SO, my SINGLE wish (hasn't changed):

'Leadership' Skill Modified: skill cost 20 points, gives +1ATT to stack, +1DEF to stack, +1RES to stack, (and if possible) +4 MOV to stack