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amok: A quick question to you. In your opinion, is richlind33 'virtue signaling' in this post?
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/stop_supporting_piracy/post278

(or perhaps 'vice singaling'?)
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richlind33: Virtue signaling is about conformity to a popular opinion or ideology. If you don't subscribe to ideology or groupthink you aren't going to be virtue signaling.
And is it virtue signaling when it is the person genuine opinion?

Can someone have an oppinion that happens to be in line and express it without it becoming 'virtue singaling'?

or is it 'virtue signaling' all the time if you express an oppinion that is in line with a popular ideology?

How large does the group need to be to become "groupthink"? Can you have two opposite groups each with 'groupthink'? (what is groupthink in a human society anyway. "The earth is a globe" - "GROUPTHIINK" )

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richlind33: Here's a quick question for you: does nonconformity with moral affectation equate to vice?
Nope
Post edited May 15, 2024 by amok
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rtcvb32: Yeah, once the package builder is made, it's so much work to copy/paste updates and then hit build...

so hard....

Might take 30, or 40 seconds of work... Maybe a minute if you have to change a meta file to update the version number. Then set to upload the installer.
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foad01: Deployment? Setting up the store page?
Setting up achievements?
Legal work?
Payments?
Different contracts?
Initial setup. Not sure what scripts are involved. Maybe a few hours of work no more than what you'd do with steam or other pages.

But let's assume it's a whole day, or $100 in work. If they feel they'd sell enough copies to compensate that $100 then it should be worth it.

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foad01: Regular updates?
Schedule once a month to copy files and click a button?

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foad01: Advertisement?
Add a 'gog' to the posters or advertisements you're already doing... otherwise none.

If the game is good. Word of mouth or those that are already wanting it, will find it quickly.

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foad01: Testing?
What testing? It's the same game/executables.

Maybe you'd do a pass to make sure achievements work on Galaxy.

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foad01: Creating a build and uploading a game is not all what developers or publishers are doing when they release a game on a store. Every single store besides Steam is extra work.
Once set up, it should just be uploading updates... unless you add something like DLC.
Post edited May 15, 2024 by rtcvb32
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rtcvb32: [...]
Different developers have different situations. For some devs the 1% extra revenue here on GOG is enough, for some it isn't. And it is definitely not enough to just dump a game on a store without any kind of advertisement. Otherwise, you wouldn't read often that people would have bought a game on GOG if they knew this before buying it elsewhere.
Post edited May 15, 2024 by foad01
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Mafwek: 1) Piracy is going to exist regardless of there being GOG or not. It's just an excuse, and excuses are refuge of the weak as the Emperor taught us.

2) Speaking as somebody who is completely amoral (but not unethical) - I will start caring about somebody stealing illegally from corporations when they stop stealing legally from people.
I know several people who pirate video games. There is a difference between them and the "Piracy is OK"-people in this thread. They don't try to justify what they are doing. They don't try to justify piracy with "I has to defeat the evil corporations" or "corporations steal from us so we steal from them" or "piracy exists anyway" or whatever justification. They know it is wrong. They know it is illegal. They just don't care. And this is refreshingly honest in comparison to the nonsense posted in this thread.
Post edited May 15, 2024 by foad01
Ok, sorry, I'll play along with the worst case.

Did you try to help one of these people? You supported piracy, you might be banned.

Shame on you for not reading between the lines when GOG didn't read between the lines either.
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foad01: Different developers have different situations. For some devs the 1% extra revenue here on GOG is enough, for some it isn't.
Some people are too picky.

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foad01: And it is definitely not enough to just dump a game on a store without any kind of advertisement. Otherwise, you wouldn't read often that people would have bought a game on GOG if they knew this before buying it elsewhere.
Why not? Word of mouth, GoG page and site would likely put it up front for a week, and those that are avidly looking for such games would snatch it up right away. After the first week or two, who knows.

Tell me, hypothetically, let's say Capcom put Resident Evil... whichever version (1,2,3,4, veronica, remake, etc), with no advertising. You don't think people wouldn't talk and make a fuss on it through the normal gamer news channels? And it wouldn't get those that would have wanted it here as soon as it was noticed?

People look for specific types of games or specific games and companies. A no-name company may need advertising or push via word of mouth or maybe drop a game, and then advertise a sale event 3-6 months later if nothing happened. But a remake or classic would not take long before it took off, at least for a bit, depending on good will and how good the content is.
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rtcvb32: [...]
Capcom and their Resident Evil games have a different situation than small indie developers who are trying to sell their games. Dumping an indie game on a store and waiting until word of mouth generated some sales there is not enough. Even for the obvious Steam version it wouldn't be enough.
Post edited May 15, 2024 by foad01
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foad01: I know several people who pirate video games. There is a difference between them and the "Piracy is OK"-people in this thread. They don't try to justify what they are doing. They don't try to justify piracy with "I has to defeat the evil corporations" or "corporations steal from us so we steal from them" or "piracy exists anyway" or whatever justification. They know it is wrong. They know it is illegal. They just don't care. And this is refreshingly honest in comparison to the nonsense posted in this thread.
It was illegal hiding Jews in the Third Reich, so what? For me piracy is wrong if good and honest people get screwed over do to that piracy, and I yet have to see that happening.
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Mafwek: It was illegal hiding Jews in the Third Reich, so what? For me piracy is wrong if good and honest people get screwed over do to that piracy, and I yet have to see that happening.
Yeah. And murder is fine as long as it hits the right person. /s
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rtcvb32: [...]
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foad01: Capcom and their Resident Evil games have a different situation than small indie developers who are trying to sell their games.
Yet the point still stands, that capcom won't put the few hours of effort... Even if it would sell quite well...

As for smaller indie devs, i don't know. But if you're advertising steam, you can advertise gog at the same time. Or Green man gaming, humble bundle, or any others.

Big problem of Steam is a number of publishers dumping backlogs of trash games in bulk, while in the past a game would be on the 'newly released' 10 or 20 games for a few weeks rather than minutes so the likelihood of being seen was far higher. 'new/recently released' and 'recently added to steam' should likely be separated out.

Though giving a copy free to several people who do streaming would give advertising too; be it a WTF is series, or bigger streamers just wanting to try something different.

I'd think smaller companies actually should have a much easier time putting games out right now, as all the AAA games/companies are total trash right now and to be avoided.
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foad01: Capcom and their Resident Evil games have a different situation than small indie developers who are trying to sell their games.
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rtcvb32: Yet the point still stands, that capcom won't put the few hours of effort... Even if it would sell quite well...
[...]
No it doesn't. You are comparing the situation for a company with hundreds or thousands of workers with the situation for a small team (1-4 persons). There are developers who don't want the extra work. You might disagree with them, but at the end it is still their decision where to release their game besides Steam.
Post edited May 16, 2024 by foad01
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richlind33: Virtue signaling is about conformity to a popular opinion or ideology. If you don't subscribe to ideology or groupthink you aren't going to be virtue signaling.
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amok: And is it virtue signaling when it is the person genuine opinion?

Can someone have an oppinion that happens to be in line and express it without it becoming 'virtue singaling'?

or is it 'virtue signaling' all the time if you express an oppinion that is in line with a popular ideology?

How large does the group need to be to become "groupthink"? Can you have two opposite groups each with 'groupthink'? (what is groupthink in a human society anyway. "The earth is a globe" - "GROUPTHIINK" )

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richlind33: Here's a quick question for you: does nonconformity with moral affectation equate to vice?
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amok: Nope
Critical thinking is the antithesis of groupthink, virtue signaling, or political correctness. If you can support an opinion/position rationally, it doesn't matter if it does or doesn't align with popular opinion.

Groupthink is a positive feedback loop, critical thinking is a negative feedback loop. One increases the impact of bias, the other one reduces it.
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Mafwek: 1) Piracy is going to exist regardless of there being GOG or not. It's just an excuse, and excuses are refuge of the weak as the Emperor taught us.

2) Speaking as somebody who is completely amoral (but not unethical) - I will start caring about somebody stealing illegally from corporations when they stop stealing legally from people.
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foad01: I know several people who pirate video games. There is a difference between them and the "Piracy is OK"-people in this thread. They don't try to justify what they are doing. They don't try to justify piracy with "I has to defeat the evil corporations" or "corporations steal from us so we steal from them" or "piracy exists anyway" or whatever justification. They know it is wrong. They know it is illegal. They just don't care. And this is refreshingly honest in comparison to the nonsense posted in this thread.
There is a difference between saying that piracy is not immoral, and downloading commercial content without paying for it.

One does not necessarily follow from the other.
Post edited May 16, 2024 by richlind33
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amok: And is it virtue signaling when it is the person genuine opinion?

Can someone have an oppinion that happens to be in line and express it without it becoming 'virtue singaling'?

or is it 'virtue signaling' all the time if you express an oppinion that is in line with a popular ideology?

How large does the group need to be to become "groupthink"? Can you have two opposite groups each with 'groupthink'? (what is groupthink in a human society anyway. "The earth is a globe" - "GROUPTHIINK" )

Nope
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richlind33: Critical thinking is the antithesis of groupthink, virtue signaling, or political correctness. If you can support an opinion/position rationally, it doesn't matter if it does or doesn't align with popular opinion.

Groupthink is a positive feedback loop, critical thinking is a negative feedback loop. One increases the impact of bias, the other one reduces it.
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foad01: I know several people who pirate video games. There is a difference between them and the "Piracy is OK"-people in this thread. They don't try to justify what they are doing. They don't try to justify piracy with "I has to defeat the evil corporations" or "corporations steal from us so we steal from them" or "piracy exists anyway" or whatever justification. They know it is wrong. They know it is illegal. They just don't care. And this is refreshingly honest in comparison to the nonsense posted in this thread.
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richlind33: There is a difference between saying that piracy is not immoral, and downloading commercial content without paying for it.

One does not necessarily follow from the other.
still talking mass drivel at every opportunity.
employ some critical thinking.
learn to understand the terminology you employ.
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foad01: I know several people who pirate video games. There is a difference between them and the "Piracy is OK"-people in this thread. They don't try to justify what they are doing. They don't try to justify piracy with "I has to defeat the evil corporations" or "corporations steal from us so we steal from them" or "piracy exists anyway" or whatever justification. They know it is wrong. They know it is illegal. They just don't care. And this is refreshingly honest in comparison to the nonsense posted in this thread.
And there it is. Push aside the mental gymnastics and the layers upon layers of excuses, and you'll find the base reason for theft is the person wants the product but doesn't want to pay for it.

~

Related to the OP's topic, Barefoot Essentials (fork) has added an update to highlight those with brand-new accounts to make it easier to spot. Not claiming this is in direct relation to piracy, but it should help spot those pesky AI bot posts, or maybe it'll help the nice people on the forum welcome newcomers with open arms? It's up to the users how you view it.
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lupineshadow: My opinion is and continues to be that this thread should be removed.
My opinion is that any legitimate and 'legal' topic (on any forum/etc) that stays civil should be left where it is.

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lupineshadow: Legally, the argument is clear, and again, any storefront should be removing any reference to piracy - at the very least, to appease their clients (the game publishers).
Yes, let's appease the almighty corpos who often treat those who want DRM free games with disdain....deigning to only throw us some decades old scraps off their table when they need more money or good PR in the gaming community.
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MarkoH01: Well ... discussiing piracy is perfectly fine. Promoting it is not. That's what the TOC states. So no need to remove the thread. Also, there never should be any need to remove a thread at all because we all are adults and should be able to discuss things in a civil way ...
Well said and spot on :)

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Mafwek: 1) Piracy is going to exist regardless of there being GOG or not. It's just an excuse, and excuses are refuge of the weak as the Emperor taught us.

2) Speaking as somebody who is completely amoral (but not unethical) - I will start caring about somebody stealing illegally from corporations when they stop stealing legally from people.
*slow clap*
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g2222: You are free to assume everything and anything, however absurd it may be. Cheers!
And here comes good ol' gaslighting. I wondered when they would arrive...
Post edited May 16, 2024 by GamezRanker